Crewe Alex Sex Abuse Scandal

[TimeyWimey]

I know I keep saying it but the damage Bowler and Dario are doing to the club by sitting this out is incomprehensible. I don't know who, if anyone, is advising them but this is car crash. Even supporters are getting shit just for being supporters. This IS killing the club.

 

[SoutheySWFC]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-divorced-club-barry-bennell?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[JJ1532]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-divorced-club-barry-bennell?CMP=share_btn_tw

I'll say this to Adam/SRNP:

The name of the club isn't Dario Gradi FC. It isn't John Bowler FC. The club wasn't founded in 1983. The club was here long before they were even born and they'll be here long after they've gone. Yes, both men have been a huge part of the club for the last 35 years, but this isn't their club. On a purely ownership level, it's never been their club. They can take credit for their achievements for sure, but lets remember, the club wasn't built with blood money. The academies success wasn't built on the back of Bennell. butTto divorce from a club because of the actions or lack of action of maybe half a dozen individuals seems a little extreme.

I have long not supported Gradi and Bowler over how they have run the club in the last decade. Their actions, this scandal aside, have been horrendous and led to our slide from a mid-table L1 team to a team fighting to once stay in the league. Appointing the wrong managers, not sacking them quick enough, their decisions over EPPP, various other smaller incorrect decisions. They have long shown a lack of judgement, bad enough that we are in the same position now that we were in 35 years ago. So their legacy is tarnished even if this issue doesn't become any bigger than it already is, which there seems little chance of happening.

However, I'm not going to walk away from an entire club because of the boards actions. They are not the club. The fans are the club, the same fans that I think on the whole are like Adam says, those who want answers. I can see why some fans feel their is a witch hunt going on. I feel a little bit like this at times, but I realise why it is happening and I have no sympathy for the board, because they have invited this on them through their piss poor handling of this whole farce.

I badly hope the truth, whatever it may be, can come out. Because I don't want these "what did they truly know or not know" questions to linger for the next decade.

 

[Dave-Vale]

This gets even more bizarre by the day and I can only think that if there is more, then it is going to come out.

It’s odd that this person felt the need to contact the NSPCC about concerning material on Dario’s computer. It’s also odd that this latest allegation involves young boys viewing pornographic material and that there is evidence of it dating back to 2011.

Genuinely hope that none of this surrounding Dario is true but at present, it looks like he’s going to get dragged into it.

 

[TimeyWimey]

He's already dragged into it, the fact today's story about porn on his laptop is a mere side story to the whole thing shows just how messy this is.

 

[Douglas_Valley_Reds]

I'll say this to Adam/SRNP:

The name of the club isn't Dario Gradi FC. It isn't John Bowler FC. The club wasn't founded in 1983. The club was here long before they were even born and they'll be here long after they've gone. Yes, both men have been a huge part of the club for the last 35 years, but this isn't their club. On a purely ownership level, it's never been their club. They can take credit for their achievements for sure, but lets remember, the club wasn't built with blood money. The academies success wasn't built on the back of Bennell. butTto divorce from a club because of the actions or lack of action of maybe half a dozen individuals seems a little extreme.

I have long not supported Gradi and Bowler over how they have run the club in the last decade. Their actions, this scandal aside, have been horrendous and led to our slide from a mid-table L1 team to a team fighting to once stay in the league. Appointing the wrong managers, not sacking them quick enough, their decisions over EPPP, various other smaller incorrect decisions. They have long shown a lack of judgement, bad enough that we are in the same position now that we were in 35 years ago. So their legacy is tarnished even if this issue doesn't become any bigger than it already is, which there seems little chance of happening.

However, I'm not going to walk away from an entire club because of the boards actions. They are not the club. The fans are the club, the same fans that I think on the whole are like Adam says, those who want answers. I can see why some fans feel their is a witch hunt going on. I feel a little bit like this at times, but I realise why it is happening and I have no sympathy for the board, because they have invited this on them through their piss poor handling of this whole farce.

I badly hope the truth, whatever it may be, can come out. Because I don't want these "what did they truly know or not know" questions to linger for the next decade.

I think Adam/SRNP needs to get his facs right about the clubs history when he does his little pieces for the Guardian, it might make him look a bit more genuine, seeing as he claims to have been an (ex) fan of over 30 years.

As regards to the latest Roan, Taylor relay of stories (they do take it turns don't they)' I just wish the club would make some kind of statement to say what did happen regarding each allegation, or maybe just state that they are going through a legal process due to each allegation, its the fans who are fighting the clubs corner at the moment, we are now being demonised by the press, apparently Adam/SRNP is the decent face of a Crewe fan, the rest of us appranley applaud child abuse, if Roan is to be believed.

 

[SoutheySWFC]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...nored-police-advice-to-move-on-barry-bennell?

 

[ValiantRob]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...nored-police-advice-to-move-on-barry-bennell?

Hardly fits with the "we knew nothing" defence does it.
Perhaps Hamilton Smith was right about Bowler nand he is a "lying bastard"

 

[SoutheySWFC]

BTW I have no agenda against Crewe as a a club nor the fans, I actually have a lot of time for you going back to a League Cup tie in mid 90s.

 

[JJ1532]

Hardly fits with the "we knew nothing" defence does it.
Perhaps Hamilton Smith was right about Bowler nand he is a "lying bastard"

I've been thinking this since I saw this article, but if the Guardian do genuinely have proof(and i'd be interested to know what they have) that Rowlinson took his concerns to the police then it blows this whole sorry farce wide open, as the current board would have openly lied to the police and investigators.

If these latest accusations and claims of evidence are proved accurate, then things could be about to get a whole lot worse.

 

[Cereal Killer]

https://www.crewealex.net/news/2018/march/club-statement-barry-bennell-2/
Make of that what you will.

 

[darren gregory]

https://www.crewealex.net/news/2018/march/club-statement-barry-bennell-2/
Make of that what you will.

Surprised it isn't signed by a Mr P Doe

 

[TimeyWimey]

Our statement game is improving.

Still missing:

Apologies for missing the abuse.
Bowler and Dario resignations.

 

[Douglas_Valley_Reds]

https://www.crewealex.net/news/2018/march/club-statement-barry-bennell-2/
Make of that what you will.

So Hamilton Smith is a liar then, and all the other accusations were based on speculation rather than fact. Who would have thought....

The part I found really interesting is about the reference Dario wrote, it emerges it was because Bennalls wife who asked for it, and guess who Bennalls wife was at the time, Andy Woodward's sister, and Andy Woodward's and Steve Walters signed the same reference!

It's been a strange old week, the self styled 'Crewe Obsessive' Adam Breeze who had his article published in the The Guardian about how he is now anti CAFC after 38 years of dedicated support was outed on twitter as never having had a season ticket, ever, nor ever attending a home game, these were his words. Also, a piece today has gone in The Mail about a poor guy who killed himself aged 44, the lad in question is an ex Swansea and Wrexham winger. The Mail's Mike Keegan had the headline as ex Crewe winger, because he had a trial at Crewe once, he also had a trail Manchester City, but hey, their is no media agenda at all.

One interesting thing I have seen on twitter is a picture of Steve Walters 3 years ago playing in the Tony Naylor Legends game at Vale Park, who managed the Alex that day, yep, the same guy Steve Walters wished happy 75th birthday too a few months before his story broke in the The Guardian. I just don't get then how he can say DG failed him, it does not make sense.

The clubs statement today has left several journalists spewing, their accusations have been proved false, now they are banging on about a police investigation not being as thorough as an internal investigation, I don't get that train of thought myself as surely an internal investigation is more likely to be accused of brushing it under the carpet.

 

[Douglas_Valley_Reds]

Surprised it isn't signed by a Mr P Doe

The Burslem brain cell is out on tour again.

 

[darren gregory]

The Burslem brain cell is out on tour again.

Newcastle actually

 

[TimeyWimey]

So Hamilton Smith is a liar then, and all the other accusations were based on speculation rather than fact. Who would have thought....

The part I found really interesting is about the reference Dario wrote, it emerges it was because Bennalls wife who asked for it, and guess who Bennalls wife was at the time, Andy Woodward's sister, and Andy Woodward's and Steve Walters signed the same reference!

It's been a strange old week, the self styled 'Crewe Obsessive' Adam Breeze who had his article published in the The Guardian about how he is now anti CAFC after 38 years of dedicated support was outed on twitter as never having had a season ticket, ever, nor ever attending a home game, these were his words. Also, a piece today has gone in The Mail about a poor guy who killed himself aged 44, the lad in question is an ex Swansea and Wrexham winger. The Mail's Mike Keegan had the headline as ex Crewe winger, because he had a trial at Crewe once, he also had a trail Manchester City, but hey, their is no media agenda at all.

One interesting thing I have seen on twitter is a picture of Steve Walters 3 years ago playing in the Tony Naylor Legends game at Vale Park, who managed the Alex that day, yep, the same guy Steve Walters wished happy 75th birthday too a few months before his story broke in the The Guardian. I just don't get then how he can say DG failed him, it does not make sense.

The clubs statement today has left several journalists spewing, their accusations have been proved false, now they are banging on about a police investigation not being as thorough as an internal investigation, I don't get that train of thought myself as surely an internal investigation is more likely to be accused of brushing it under the carpet.

It's not an internal investigation that's being called for, it's a independent inquiry (conducted by someone independent of the club and victims, obvs). The lack of independent inquiry is showing a severe case of nativity though. Whilst the police can find no evidence of wrong doings, an independent inquiry can at the very least identify lessons to be learned and at best root out any individuals at fault. The club could point it out as a pointless exercise as, alongside the police investigation, safeguarding has undoubtedly improved in line with the laws, in which case they should lay it on the table and show the impact (if any) Bennell's original conviction had on policies at the club.

Otherwise, and I think it's the only real appropriate cause of action. Allow an independent body to look at how Bennell was allowed (unknowingly) to do what he did, allow them to point out the club's failings and give them direction for the future. Yes it'll be extremely uncomfortable, yes a lot of it will be failings most clubs will likely have fallen to due to it being "a different time" and yes a lot of things will have been put in place in regards to safeguarding over the intervening 25 years. But if the club don't want the press hounding them with the same questions, accusations and calls for transparency, then it's the only option as they will not drop it on the basis of club statements (no matter how thorough).

It is actually pretty staggering the club didn't continue with the independent inquiry. It'd be taken as a given at 99% of institutions given the situation (as would resignations of those in charge at the time...). Don't expect the journalists to go quiet on the basis of this statement. The daggers will be out over the weekend and I suspect they will eventually force the club to go ahead with the inquiry.

Over all, this whole thing shows up the absolute shambles we are in the boardroom. Before it was lack of openness with fans regarding trivial issues. It may baffle neutrals at our shambolic approach to media and transparency but this is literally the definition of the motto "We are Crewe". It's no surprise at all to Crewe fans. The club really should have sought advice from or hired someone with a real background in handling this sort of thing back in 2016. Could have saved a lot of issues.

 

[Chris FGR]

Does anyone know why Gradi was suspended by the FA in 2016?

 

[TimeyWimey]

Does anyone know why Gradi was suspended by the FA in 2016?

Due to the story around him being sent by Chelsea to cover up accusations of abuse by Eddie Heath. Hence why it's never referenced (I think) in CAFC statements.

 

[darren gregory]

If Hamilton Smith is a liar i await the court case where Bowler sues him for defamation of character. Coming to a court room soon. Seems on here Timey is the only Alex fan in the real world, fair play Timey.

 

[TimeyWimey]

Seems on here Timey is the only Alex fan in the real world, fair play Timey.

Not really. Of all the Crewe fans on here, it's only really DVR who has a differing view point but even then I can respect (most of) the angle he's coming from.

Our support has unfairly come in for a hell of a lot of stick in the last week. I got it on Monday for daring suggest a fans forum should be left to fans and it very quickly turned into suggestions of burying heads in sand, not wanting journos being mean about my club and other petty stuff. But it's also happened on a bigger scale, such as the "shameful" applause at the fans forum. Grossly unfair and not indicative of the general view amongst Crewe fans.

It's just not a black and white issue and I don't think it's one for a neutral to be coming in shouting down every Crewe fan who isn't writing articles in the Independent about abandoning the club. Hounding journos on twitter doesn't come across great (to say the least) and I wish there was less of it, but it doesn't come from a place of denial or cover up. There may be mis-directed anger at sensationalism in the media, but you'll not find a Crewe fan who questions the victims and you'll be hard pushed to find a Crewe fan who doesn't want full justice, including full transparency.

As I've said since day one, this could have all been avoided if the club acted in good time and properly. They haven't and that's what set it all in motion.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

The view I have on this is like the vast majority of Crewe fans. I'm appalled at what Barry Bennell did at this club and I do hope he spends his last days rotting in a prison cell. I also believe we should've hired a PR guru to help the club through these choppy waters the moment it broke out but, unfortunately, Bowler is as stubborn as a mule and there was more chance of us signing a player for £1 million than that happening. Could our communication have been better? Absolutely.

We were right to mention our sympathies and regrets about the victims, but the club genuinely have to word what they say correctly. If the club were to say sorry, which I think they also should as they did employ Bennell after all, the twisted hacks would use this as a weapon to proclaim that we've just made an admission of guilt. I, for one, believe Cheshire Police's findings that the club genuinely didn't know along with the remarks made by ex players who hadn't a clue at all about what was going on, most notably Neil Lennon, best friend of the first victim to come out about this, Andy Woodward.

I'm fully aware that the media love clickbait in the relatively new world of social media so I've been prepared for the twisted headlines to come out but one today's really angered me. Kieron Durkan, a former Wrexham footballer, tragically died this week in Runcorn. The Daily Mail then decided to run a scandalous article saying he played for us and tried to tie it in with some warped Barry Bennell agenda. The bloke never played a second for us nor did he ever sign a contract with us. I can only assume that this was extremely distressing for Mr Durkan's family and friends to read such ludicrous remarks this morning, and I hope there will be an apology to his family and, to a lesser extent, the club in due course.

Another thing that's angered me is the social media response to this. Disagreeing with the findings of an official police inquiry in favour of some journalists who write for the gutter press is one thing, another thing is saying snide things such as "Everyone knew about Dario/Crewe etc" (well why didn't these fans blow the whistle then? I'll tell you why. Because they're obviously basing logic on sick Dario is a paedo chants made by most of our local rivals over the years which have no substance whatsoever) but the worst of all? The real high horse wankers saying we should be kicked out of the league/forced to disband and the like. Why should we? This club has been going for 141 years and this club is, as JJ rightly says, not Dario Gradi FC or John Bowler FC. It's the town's club. A core support of 3000 watch this club at home regularly. These fans are innocent. Why should they be punished for Barry Bennell's actions, no matter how deplorable they were?

The club has its faults. But the media and, for some reason, some football fans of Oldham, Coventry, Forest and the like who are convinced that we covered it up despite Cheshire Police saying we didn't, want Dario's head on a platter and they're trying very very hard to implicate him. I do think he, and John Bowler, should resign to allow our club to move forward. However, if they did that right now, then you know the rags will be firing at them left, right and centre.

This club is damned if it does, and damned if it doesn't. There was no easy way out of this for the club whether they knew about it or not. But people like Oliver Holt (alleged supporter of a club whose ex manager was wrongly accused of sexual abuse nearly two decades ago), Daniel Roan, Michael Keegan and Daniel Taylor are people who feed off nothing but negativity and misery to earn a wage. Whatever the club did would've been criticised, because sports journalists always love the self-righteousness of their work, assisted massively by hindsight. They also love the clickbait, the likes, the attention, and the overly generous wage packets they barely deserve. They're vultures. Vultures doing their jobs, but vultures trying to draw blood out of a stone with regard to their witch hunt of Dario Gradi in my opinion.

 

[Dave-Vale]

Do you Crewe fans not think it’s a bit weird that Dario is caught up in both the Eddie Heath abuse stuff and the Barry Bennell stuff?

It’s also very weird that there are at least 3 players (including Gary Speed) that were coached by Bennell who have committed suicide. Very sad.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Do you Crewe fans not think it’s a bit weird that Dario is caught up in both the Eddie Heath abuse stuff and the Barry Bennell stuff?

It’s also very weird that there are at least 3 players (including Gary Speed) that were coached by Bennell who have committed suicide. Very sad.

With it being Chelsea, I can't say I know a great deal about the Eddie Heath complaint. All I know is that's the reason Dario is still suspended by the FA as they're looking into that.

Is it weird? Not in my view, I believe it to be purely coincidental. You have to remember that Dario didn't have the influence at Chelsea that he has at Crewe. He was a peripheral figure at Chelsea rather than being one of the central figures at the club here. Dario was also at Crystal Palace and Wimbledon where, to my knowledge at the moment, no wrongdoing there seems to have happened during his time at both those respective clubs. I'm also of the staunch belief he hasn't done something sinister either, basing my judgements off people who played under him or people who were former scholars at the Academy.

As for the tragic footballers who have committed suicide, I'm unsure whether they did so because of Barry Bennell. That's not me saying they didn't, that's me saying it cannot be proven or denied. That said, the Daily Mail automatically linking poor Kieron Durkan's death to Barry Bennell before the post-mortem has even taken place was sickeningly absurd on their part.

 

[TimeyWimey]

I’m holding judgement until facts are established and made clear. Crazy I know, not having a pitchfork for every single angle of the story is probably tantamount to burying heads in sand.

So much is based on tabloid (tabloids I wouldn’t wipe my arse with) stories though and it’s up to the FA’s investigation to cut through the dirt and lay the truth on the table. It’s why our own independent investigation would be useful.

On face value, Dario’s behaviour has been disgraceful. But then you dig deeper, find holes in those stories and look elsewhere and find so many stories and first hand accounts (the ones the national media have no interest in) of a gent he is and of his careful, professional behaviour around young players. I honestly couldn’t make a judgement. Much like those insisting the club “must have known” and it’d be “impossible not to know”, it’s all based on tabloid opinion pieces and he said she said, until facts are established all I can really call the club out on is its handling of the situation.