Coronavirus

Stocky · Apr 27, 2020

Super_horns said:
Some people just feel they aren't affected by the virus and it's risks so more worried about other issues around the lockdown.

Worried about other issues around the lockdown? If you're not, you need to be.

Non Covid deaths doubled, Cancer treatments and diagnonsis well down, people lost their jobs, children not getting an education, world economy on its backside.

Super_horns · Apr 27, 2020

I know - that is what I mean.

People will have other worries than just their personal health regarding the virus as many will believe they won't be harmed by it but by other factors.

rudebwoyben · Apr 27, 2020

Stocky said:
Worried about other issues around the lockdown? If you're not, you need to be.

Non Covid deaths doubled, Cancer treatments and diagnonsis well down, people lost their jobs, children not getting an education, world economy on its backside.

What Source have you got that non-Covid deaths have doubled?

jacobncfc · Apr 27, 2020

rudebwoyben said:
What Source have you got that non-Covid deaths have doubled?

Excess deaths are well, well up. But we don’t yet know whether they are undiagnosed Covid cases or people not seeking treatment for other things.

If you want to know why the lockdown, or at least most of it, will be here for the foreseeable, just look at the excess deaths stats for Lombardy. Up by almost 500%.

rudebwoyben · Apr 27, 2020

jacobncfc said:
Excess deaths are well, well up. But we don’t yet know whether they are undiagnosed Covid cases or people not seeking treatment for other things.

If you want to know why the lockdown, or at least most of it, will be here for the foreseeable, just look at the excess deaths stats for Lombardy. Up by almost 500%.

And just look at this too..
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...landandwalesprovisional/weekending10april2020

Stocky · Apr 27, 2020

A story on the news about a circa 25-30 year old man who's upset because his 97 year old Grandad has died. Absolutely groundbreaking and unprecedented stuff.

#Beebot · Apr 27, 2020

Stocky said:
A story on the news about a circa 25-30 year old man who's upset because his 97 year old Grandad has died. Absolutely groundbreaking and unprecedented stuff.

You're just trolling now and being wilfully dense because you can't be bothered to think about why this lockdown might be necessary.

There is a debate to be had about the exact nature of the restrictions on our lives and how we might go about getting out of this over the next few weeks and months, but sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending there's nothing wrong has no role to play in that.

Chief Rocka · Apr 27, 2020

From Ian Dennis again.

The National League have written to clubs to invite them to share their views on the feasibility of continuing with the play-offs. A deadline of Friday has been set for clubs to bring forward ideas. A decision is expected next week.

So they cancel the remaining fixtures, rightfully so, then are floating the idea of playing playoffs? This is surely going to be laughed off by most clubs right?

doveranddover · Apr 27, 2020

https://twitter.com/x/status/1254856591976722434

LongEatonPie · Apr 27, 2020

Well its easy to guess what thats going to be.
Teams 2-7 - oh yes please. +Barnet, yes please if we are going on PPG
the rest Nah no point.

chief · Apr 27, 2020

LongEatonPie said:
Well its easy to guess what thats going to be.
Teams 2-7 - oh yes please. +Barnet, yes please if we are going on PPG
the rest Nah no point.

Yep, no point.

chipmunx · Apr 27, 2020

LongEatonPie said:
Well its easy to guess what thats going to be.
Teams 2-7 - oh yes please. +Barnet, yes please if we are going on PPG
the rest Nah no point.

The other way off looking at it is that any team who would be safely out of bottom 4 place on PPG should vote for it to ensure that at a minimum they will be in this division next season - that way you'd get 19-20 teams voting for it.

Bee sting · Apr 27, 2020

As a Barnet fan who possibly stands to gain more than we lose, i say we should end season now totally. No relegation and just promote Barrow. Then decide between best placed side on PPG from NLN & NLS to make the numbers up.

chipmunx · Apr 27, 2020

the article on the BBC site does say the NL board want suggestions - then they will decide what happens - which suggests that there wpn't be a vote - but that the clubs will be told what will happen after the board see the suggestions.

"A deadline of this Friday has been set for clubs to bring forward ideas to determine how they end the season.

The National League board will have the final decision and it is set to meet again early next week."

jacobncfc · Apr 27, 2020

Everyone would vote for it if we brought my royal rumble idea to the table.

It’s still too early, for what it’s worth. It is completely unfeasible to decide to carry on with the play-offs now, obviously. If, in six weeks’ time, the EFL is successfully holding matches behind closed doors, then there’s no reason why we couldn’t do the same with the play-offs.

chipmunx · Apr 27, 2020

Bee sting said:
As a Barnet fan who possibly stands to gain more than we lose, i say we should end season now totally. No relegation and just promote Barrow. Then decide between best placed side on PPG from NLN & NLS to make the numbers up.

that would be Wealdstone then.

chipmunx · Apr 27, 2020

jacobncfc said:
Everyone would vote for it if we brought my royal rumble idea to the table.

but how do you throw someone over the top rope without getting within 2 metres of them?

Bee sting · Apr 27, 2020

chipmunx said:
that would be Wealdstone then.

That is the fairest way for whoever it is.

Optipez · Apr 27, 2020

Chief Rocka said:
From Ian Dennis again.

So they cancel the remaining fixtures, rightfully so, then are floating the idea of playing playoffs? This is surely going to be laughed off by most clubs right?

I don't think the club's in play off places will laugh it off.
It's entirely feasable to play them behind closed doors and televise them.
If the Football League want two up and it's agreed that Barrow get one place then let's do the play offs.
As to whether it's fair to Barnet and others, probably not but it's not fair that Harrogate and Notts don't get chance to go for top spot.
Without the season being played out properly 'fair' sort of goes out the window.

Bee sting · Apr 27, 2020

There are several problems with carrying on. 1st how do you decide the League Table. If you go on PPG then some clubs will miss out and complain that it is unfair. If you take the Table as it is now, then that is also unfair as some clubs have played more games than others so could get more points. 2nd If you have play-offs say in June, then many players will need contract extensions and paying. So what happens if you play 1 round then the virus erupts again and everything goes back into lockdown, you will then be obliged to keep paying those players without any club income. 3rd Barrow are top and have been most of the season and deserve it. 4th Even playing behind closed doors, many fans will still turn up hoping to get a glimpse or just being there which will then require stewards/police. So just let it go and rebuild for whenever next season starts.

Chief Rocka · Apr 28, 2020

Optipez said:
Without the season being played out properly 'fair' sort of goes out the window.

Agreed, so the only fair way to settle it for everyone, is no team gets anything. No playoffs, no relegation, null and void, it’s not difficult, some people, fans, clubs hanging onto this tiny thread of hope that maybe we can do this, maybe behind closed doors in a month or two we can do that, just let it go, the season is done.

Lucky Bobble · Apr 28, 2020

Bee sting said:
That is the fairest way for whoever it is.

Only if the leagues were of equal strength - which I'd argue they are not.

Luke Imp · Apr 28, 2020

Chief Rocka said:
Agreed, so the only fair way to settle it for everyone, is no team gets anything. No playoffs, no relegation, null and void, it’s not difficult, some people, fans, clubs hanging onto this tiny thread of hope that maybe we can do this, maybe behind closed doors in a month or two we can do that, just let it go, the season is done.

Null and void does the opposite of what seasons are about, though. I appreciate a full season hasn't been completed and that's what success and failure are based on (bearing in mind it's 85% or so complete) but by null and void at this stage, you're rewarding failure and punishing success. You can't, for example, allow those in the bottom four a further season of increased league money, higher attendances etc and then deny those at the top their crack at it.

Null and void is absolutely the worst option. There is no correct or fair way, but that's the most unfair of the lot.

If it goes down the PPG and PO route, ironically enough, Barnet's shit pitch might have helped them rather than been the hindrance it was initially seen as!

AdamStag · Apr 28, 2020

Chief Rocka said:
Agreed, so the only fair way to settle it for everyone, is no team gets anything. No playoffs, no relegation, null and void, it’s not difficult, some people, fans, clubs hanging onto this tiny thread of hope that maybe we can do this, maybe behind closed doors in a month or two we can do that, just let it go, the season is done.

Agreed, you can’t have relegation taken out of teams hands when it’s close down there only to allow the playoff to happen, it’s a complete contradiction. Whereas I think the conference was way too hasty in their decision, if you’ve cancelled the season you’ve cancelled it -

TrinidadsNumberOne · Apr 28, 2020

Luke Imp said:
Null and void does the opposite of what seasons are about, though. I appreciate a full season hasn't been completed and that's what success and failure are based on (bearing in mind it's 85% or so complete) but by null and void at this stage, you're rewarding failure and punishing success. You can't, for example, allow those in the bottom four a further season of increased league money, higher attendances etc and then deny those at the top their crack at it.

Null and void is absolutely the worst option. There is no correct or fair way, but that's the most unfair of the lot.

If it goes down the PPG and PO route, ironically enough, Barnet's shit pitch might have helped them rather than been the hindrance it was initially seen as!

This is absolutely spot on. I saw someone on my Facebook who said a null and void season was the best way as it gives those at the bottom another chance to sort themselves out.

Weirdly he's a Preston fan so it made no sense to hold that take at all unless he had a particular fondness for Chorley or Fylde!

I find it sad that people would be happy with, and indeed some would even celebrate, the prospect of a null and void season. That's not football. That's just the bitterness and envy mocking success robbed by a freak set of circumstances. Null and void is the option that should absolutely be disregarded, though I'm open to removing relegation for one year and re-aligning leagues temporarily.

chipmunx · Apr 30, 2020

In some ways things have moved in the last 2 days (when this place had it's monthly outage) and in some ways we are still in exactly the same place.....

This from Harrogate Advertiser;-

The current EFL position as outlined verbally to the National League and the FA is that if the National League completes its play-offs following the existing approved format and League Two completes its season, it is reasonable to assume the National League play-off winner can be promoted as the ‘National League runner- up’.

'However, if either of these conditions were not fulfilled, it is quite possible that the promotion place for the play-off winner could be jeopardised.'

The key phrase is "existing approved format", i.e. the clubs in 2nd to 7th places. By any calculation Barrow are top and, therefore, not involved.

That's a post lifted off the Barrow forum (not originally posted by me).

Here is the link to the newspaper article;-

https://www.harrogateadvertiser.co.u...league-2553504

Master D · Apr 30, 2020

Tidy.

Chief Rocka · Apr 30, 2020

Luke Imp said:
Null and void does the opposite of what seasons are about, though. I appreciate a full season hasn't been completed and that's what success and failure are based on (bearing in mind it's 85% or so complete) but by null and void at this stage, you're rewarding failure and punishing success. You can't, for example, allow those in the bottom four a further season of increased league money, higher attendances etc and then deny those at the top their crack at it.

Null and void is absolutely the worst option. There is no correct or fair way, but that's the most unfair of the lot.

If it goes down the PPG and PO route, ironically enough, Barnet's shit pitch might have helped them rather than been the hindrance it was initially seen as!

Which is why I'm against PPG, not that I even think the playing of playoff games would be possible it's a pipe dream, it isn't going to happen, but selfishly speaking we were three points off a playoff place with a host of bum teams left to play, four other teams were within 3/4 points of a spot, so they cancel fixtures (correct decision) denying us a chance to get in the playoffs, it's even more so galling for Stockport, like you mention, who would be kicked out of them, at the expense of Barnet and their potato field pitch.

Maidenhead were dropping like a stone through the league, PPG would see them safe though, at the expense of two teams in Ebbsfleet and Fylde who despite having a stinker of a season had found their feet in recent games, you can't remove fixtures from teams, then send them down using a formula.

PPG is straight up garbage, more teams are adversely affected by it than gain from it.

Soup Ladle · Apr 30, 2020

Chief Rocka said:
Which is why I'm against PPG, not that I even think the playing of playoff games would be possible it's a pipe dream, it isn't going to happen, but selfishly speaking we were three points off a playoff place with a host of bum teams left to play, four other teams were within 3/4 points of a spot, so they cancel fixtures (correct decision) denying us a chance to get in the playoffs, it's even more so galling for Stockport, like you mention, who would be kicked out of them, at the expense of Barnet and their potato field pitch.

Maidenhead were dropping like a stone through the league, PPG would see them safe though, at the expense of two teams in Ebbsfleet and Fylde who despite having a stinker of a season had found their feet in recent games, you can't remove fixtures from teams, then send them down using a formula.

PPG is straight up garbage, more teams are adversely affected by it than gain from it.

Totally agree. I've posted my opinion on PPG before. I was in the 'finish the season' camp now I just think scrap it. Including the Prem and every other division. Start again with a new season when we can.

Camborne Gills · Apr 30, 2020

Whereas null and void affects all 68 teams in the National leagues, who have spent time and plenty of money attempting to do their best since August. PPG has it's flaws, but it seems the least worst option left on the table.

Not forgetting as well, countless teams in steps 3 -7 who were fucked over by the FA, many of whom could have carried on playing after the easing of the lockdown, as social distancing would have been considerably easier. There are plenty of clubs whose average gates are double digits.

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