Stickied German Football

[AnthonyOAFC]

Frankfurt....no

 

[mistermagic]

Was really impressive how Eintracht surrendered in Freiburg. They were 1 up and had loads of chances to make it 2 only to collapse in the second half. Result doesn't do the game justice imo. Freiburg's win makes Dortmund bottom though as they could only draw 0-0 at Leverkusen yesterday.

Werder got an important win against Hertha 2-0 today. Still 0-0 between Augsburg and Hoffenheim in the other game after 20-odd minutes.

 

[Super_horns]

between Augsburg and Hoffenheim in the other game after 20-odd minutes.

Ended 3-1 to the home side who are having another impressive season i seems.

 

[yellow]

Good at home but not so good away, Augsburg.

Kampl looked quite good from the few little bits I saw on Saturday.

 

[mistermagic]

Who's everyone's tip to go down then? Reckon Paderborn will have a very difficult second half of the season and will finish bottom. My tip for 17th is Hertha and I reckon the play-off spot will be between Hamburg and Stuttgart.

 

[yellow]

Yeh Paderborn haven't won in a while either, and with just one win on the road it could be a struggle.

The three you say are the three I think will finish 15th, 16th and 17th…you'd have thought Hamburg would have learnt from last year!

On a transfer note, Wolfsburg strengthen with Schurrle signing. Would have been a good signing for any Buli side (except Bayern). Rumours of De Bruyne and Hummels going to Old Trafford before today is up, but I can't see it.

 

[mistermagic]

Yeh Paderborn haven't won in a while either, and with just one win on the road it could be a struggle.

The three you say are the three I think will finish 15th, 16th and 17th…you'd have thought Hamburg would have learnt from last year!

On a transfer note, Wolfsburg strengthen with Schurrle signing. Would have been a good signing for any Buli side (except Bayern). Rumours of De Bruyne and Hummels going to Old Trafford before today is up, but I can't see it.

So who's gonna finish bottom then?

 

[yellow]

Like you, I can see Paderborn dropping away.

 

[Super_horns]

Bayern held but they did have 10 men for most of the game and Wolfsburg could only draw as well.

Noticed Freiburg have got a striker from Bremen on loan who scored a hat trick on his debut - is that a wise decision by the latter to let a relegation rival have one of their players?

 

[This Charming Mike]

Dortmund losing AGAIN. Fucking hell.

 

[CrazyImp]

Dortmund lose again.

This is a right effort by them. Really surreal atmosphere at the end of the match, majority of players looking on utterly bemused as Weidenfeller and Hummels argued with the Yellow Wall.

 

[SALTIRE]

Holy moly, after the winter break I thought they'd sort themselves out and get out of this mess. This really could happen that they could get relegated.

 

[allouso]

They had something like 46% passing accuracy in a game a week ago. That is beyond shocking.

 

[Posh Hammer]

Bu what the fucking fuck is actually going on down there?!

There squad is still strong enough to be top 4 at the very least. Weidenfeller, Hummels, Piszcek, Gundogan, Kagawa, Immobile, Aubameyang, Sahin and the likes are no mugs and could slot into most top flight teams in Europe.

Can someone with some sort of insider knowledge of German football help me out here? Always had a massive soft spot for Dortmund and literally can't believe they are in this position.

 

[mistermagic]

Bu what the fucking fuck is actually going on down there?!

There squad is still strong enough to be top 4 at the very least. Weidenfeller, Hummels, Piszcek, Gundogan, Kagawa, Immobile, Aubameyang, Sahin and the likes are no mugs and could slot into most top flight teams in Europe.

Can someone with some sort of insider knowledge of German football help me out here? Always had a massive soft spot for Dortmund and literally can't believe they are in this position.

Nope, sorry. The guy was brought to replace Lewandowski and to say that he hasn't delivered is a big understatement. Missed another sitter last night which would have avoided Dortmund another home defeat. All the other players you mentioned are fine but Immobile really is not good enough for that side. Him and Ramos are just not on a par with Lewandowski which is telling when you watch Dortmund.
They're also just a win away from not being in the bottom 3 so they have plenty of time. Just need to keep calm and the win will come although I don't see why Klopp bought a guy like Kampl (a winger) when you already have Reus, Aubameyang, Kagawa etc. A striker who knows how to score would have been better imo.

It's very tight down there and quite exciting. I'm convinced that Dortmund won't go down and my prediction of Hertha and Paderborn finishing bottom 2 looks quite accurate. Both lost at home last night. Not so bad for Hertha as they were hosting Leverkusen who are much better than them but Paderborn lost heavily to Hamburg 0-3 who didn't score for 4 games before yesterday's game.

One team that is really turning things around is Bremen. 3 wins on the bounce as they won at Hoffenheim last night. They were doing very poorly before the change of management but are now not far off the top half! Saying that they are only 5 points clear of the bottom 3. That's how close it is.

One last thing about Dortmund's defeat last night. It's not as if they lost against a midtable nobody. Augsburg are 4th in the league and a Champions' League berth is very much on the cards for them. They are fighting it out with Gladbach, Leverkusen and Schalke for the 3rd and 4th spot. They too are no mugs.

 

[Posh Hammer]

Nope, sorry. The guy was brought to replace Lewandowski and to say that he hasn't delivered is a big understatement. Missed another sitter last night which would have avoided Dortmund another home defeat. All the other players you mentioned are fine but Immobile really is not good enough for that side. Him and Ramos are just not on a par with Lewandowski which is telling when you watch Dortmund.
They're also just a win away from not being in the bottom 3 so they have plenty of time. Just need to keep calm and the win will come although I don't see why Klopp bought a guy like Kampl (a winger) when you already have Reus, Aubameyang, Kagawa etc. A striker who knows how to score would have been better imo.

It's very tight down there and quite exciting. I'm convinced that Dortmund won't go down and my prediction of Hertha and Paderborn finishing bottom 2 looks quite accurate. Both lost at home last night. Not so bad for Hertha as they were hosting Leverkusen who are much better than them but Paderborn lost heavily to Hamburg 0-3 who didn't score for 4 games before yesterday's game.

One team that is really turning things around is Bremen. 3 wins on the bounce as they won at Hoffenheim last night. They were doing very poorly before the change of management but are now not far off the top half! Saying that they are only 5 points clear of the bottom 3. That's how close it is.

One last thing about Dortmund's defeat last night. It's not as if they lost against a midtable nobody. Augsburg are 4th in the league and a Champions' League berth is very much on the cards for them. They are fighting it out with Gladbach, Leverkusen and Schalke for the 3rd and 4th spot. They too are no mugs.

Ok, I get all that. And I get your points on Immobile and Ramos. But surely there is something else seriously wrong for them to be bottom of the table, 30 points off top after only 19 games?

 

[allouso]

This goes beyond not replacing your best striker properly.

 

[mistermagic]

Dortmund have only scored 18 goals this season which is less than a goal a game! Granted there are holes elsewhere but if they had a player who could put them away it would help them a lot.
Other reasons would be giving Ginter a run in the team when the kid was not ready for it (transferred this summer from Freiburg) and Reus' injury. I don't watch them often enough to provide other factors.

 

[mistermagic]

The axe has fallen on Hertha Berlin manager Jos Luhukay.

 

[Libertadores FC]

Am I the only one who thinks Dortmund's squad isn't that great? It's easily a top half team yes, but its not the greatest in the world.

I hardly follow German football, so I'm going to base my opinions on what I'm hearing. I feel like some people overrate Aubemeyang because he scored a hattrick on his debut, I have friends who like Dortmund and we telling me Mkhtaryan isn't that great, Immobile I'm not sure why he's underperforming, and Kagawa hasn't been good since his move to Manchester United. Once again I have hardly seen Dortmund this year, but I feel like people overrate their squad a bit. Still, its shocking considering they have a top 10 team at least.

Can only echo what people are saying about Ramos and Immobile. They're good, but not comparable to Lewandowski.

Questionable how they have done so well in Europe, and while on paper it looks like a good tie, but Juve against Dortmund will be of lower quality than people think seeing as Juve have been awful this season also.

The first paragraph may come out as "clueless" but stating here again, I have little knowledge on German football so anyone care to correct me, go ahead. I would like that also as I'm curious whether these players actually show as much quality as people claim them to have.

 

[mistermagic]

Not that far off I'd say. Weidenfeller hasn't been good at all between the sticks and I've never really rate neither Papastathopoulos nor Hummels at the back. To me the master of the back four has always been Subotic but he's not been himself since his long-term injury (just 10 games last season). Don't think much of Sahin either since he left.
However, the rest is fine. Players such as Piszczek, Schmelzer, Gündogan (again not quite as good as before his injury), Reus, Aubameyang shouldn't be bottom.

 

[yellow]

What a superb experience! A shame to see them lose though, but on the whole the two days were excellent.

Agree entirely with MM about Immobile - he offered very little throughout the game and missed a golden opportunity at the death. He's obviously got ability as he showed with Torino, but I have serious doubts as to his ability to be a first-team regular at one of Europe's elite. He does have age on his side though, so you can't write him off completely.

After the red card I thought an equaliser would come, but to be fair to Augsburg, they defended manfully for the final 30 minutes. It felt to me like the Dortmund team have completely lost their mojo - two years ago the focus of gegenpressing started at the top with Lewandowski, but it doesn't work when you have people like Immobile and others who don't have the work rate for it.

I actually thought Gundogan was their most impressive performer on the night, followed by Hummels, who hardly put a foot wrong, although could perhaps have done better on the goal. Again, as MM mentions, there are too many gaps in that side now, unfortunately.

Weidenfeller is too old to hold the first choice spot in my opinion - Großkreutz and Sokratis were poor. In a way I can understand KG because he is naturally a left winger, but I was surprised at how poor Sokratis was. Schmelzer was quite anonymous. I was also shocked at the performances of Reus as I felt he was a bit.. off.

You could feel the passion at the end with Hummels and Weidenfeller talking to the fans - it must have been hard for the players to stand in front of the Yellow Wall and hear the boos and jeers, but fair play. There were rumours on Twitter yesterday that Klopp had been sacked but it seems like bullshit - perhaps a more realistic scenario to believe is the one where Klopp has until February to get out of the bottom three.

On the whole, my first experience of German football was thoroughly enjoyable, the atmosphere was amazing if not the result. Already looking for another trip!

 

[mistermagic]

Regarding Klopp it really is a sticky situation. The board or the fans can't really sack him like he was a nobody as he picked up the club when they were doing very badly (mind you not as bad as now!) took care of the youth system and got them a few league titles and a CL final. However, this unsackable status isn't good for anyone. It's not good for Klopp as he can basically do whatever and he won't get sacked and it's not good for the fans as they need to respect the work he has done.
I'm convinced Klopp isn't the problem though. For one thing the board has shown its weakness during the Lewandowski debacle and that might be why players aren't happy and want to leave. I suspect a mass exodus in the coming years and Dortmund have to rebuild. And fast.

 

[yellow]

Yep, I don't think Klopp is the problem. I do get the impression that teams have worked out how to deal with his high pressing style though. I was impressed with the number of times Augsburg played it in triangles to get out of situations, leaving Dortmund players chasing all over the shop.

A rebuild is essential I think. Stay up this year (I think they'll be fine). I think Reus, Gundogan and Hummels will go in the summer, and it could be over for Weidenfeller, Immobile and Ramos among others.

 

[G-Dragon]

And some Liverpool fans wanted Klopp for Rodgers...

 

[Modernist]

And some Liverpool fans wanted Klopp for Rodgers...

How do you know he wouldn't have done well?, 2 Bundesliga's, 2 Super cups, DFB cup and Runners up in the CL in 5 seasons isn't bad.

 

[yellow]

It's a damn sight more than Rodgers has done…

 

[Super_horns]

and with probably less money.

 

[mistermagic]

Knee-jerkers gotta knee-jerk...

 

[SALTIRE]

And some Liverpool fans wanted Klopp for Rodgers...

Would still take Klopp when Rodgers eventually leaves; he's a cracking manager.