5 Tiers, 100 teams - A New Football League?

[Gassy]

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/363..._the_day&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=sport

Thoughts boys and girls?

To show opinions, this survey is to help AL3 better understand the opinions of football supporters in regards to The Football League's proposals.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1SEBo9t5u4p-v8UMUmhpdR4WgHwbuZnCcSpE5s8oHtCQ/viewform

 

[LordJord]

Get rid of the JPT instead if they are worried about the number of fixtures.

Just a step towards prem b teams isn't it.

 

[Aber gas]

I'm not sure the clubs, especially in the championship are going to accept such a drastic restructuring. From what I can gather there would need to be 7 relegation places assuming of course there would continue to be 3 promotion places from our division.

 

[joethegill]

In THEORY I can't see a huge amount wrong with it, but we all know that it's a stepping stone towards B teams and maybe even a revisit of the whole Celtic and Rangers into the English leagues scenario that seemed to have buggered off. The final season before the restructure would be a farce as well - what could normally be a mid-table finish could see you relegated/promoted.

 

[Gashead]

Glad Gassy started this in the L1 forum, didn't see it before I posted it in the L2 one!

As others have said, 2018/19 would be a clusterfuck. I don't see HUGE problems with it otherwise, I wonder if this is the reason the FL scheduling for midweek games has been dreadful over the last few years (e.g. Hartlepool vs us, Carlisle played Plymouth on a Tuesday night too, plus other long distance games)

 

[Liam_SWFC]

Hopefully not, I like it as it is and as said above it's the FA's way of pulling the wool over our eyes with B teams.

 

[blademan89]

Providing no b teams are allowed in I'm up for it which they won't be cos no football league teams will allow it. Less Tuesday nights is a bonus. Jpt on international weekends is fine thats not fixture congestion, as much as me personally couldnt give a fuck about the jpt for some clubs its there only chance of wembley so keep it running imo.They surely wouldn't be able to just relegate 7 teams in the last year that needs thinking through a bit better. Also I think the playoffs need a mix up, this year in all 3 leagues the team who finished 3rd have lost despite finishing 15,10,10 points clear that's wrong imo. I think 5th should play 6th for the right to play 4th. Then the winner of that plays 3rd at Wembley. Teams higher placed should have the advantage similar to what they do in Scotland. This would work too cos with 4 less games in the season it could free an extra week up to get all the playoff games in time at the end of the season.

 

[hodge]

I have no issues with this providing there is no chance of premier league B teams and all teams introduced to the new league would be those from the conference. Less bitch midweek Tuesday games, a uniformed division system equal across the board. Yes the initial year will see 7 relegation spots from the championship, but if you're good enough to be there you should then get promoted the next season or so really. No doubt Sky would then do basically a game every day of the week, but in general I'd be in favour of this.

 

[Dayman]

Sky were saying Premier League B teams would be entered into the new structure but they've all of a sudden stopped mentioning it and deleted their initial tweet also mentioning it. They either fucked up or got a bit of info that they weren't meant to share and got their wrists slapped.

 

[Bobbin']

As most posts above, in theory it doesn't seem that bad and doesn't really change a whole amount.

It has it's pros and cons.

How would this affect both the league cup and FA cup though? The idea is supposedly to decrease fixture congestion but surely with an extra league this will require more rounds for both cups anyway?

The JPT? Who plays in that? Will more rounds have to be created to accommodate the extra league?

 

[JJ1532]

I think when you start to think about it, there is a fair bit wrong with this. If you had a 20 team league, you are only playing 38 games a season, which means teams will be losing 4 home games. Thats 4 games of match day revenue that some clubs can ill afford to lose. Season ticket prices would have to come down because you are asking for fans to pay for 19 home games instead of 23. Ok, you lose most of the midweek fixtures, which I doubt anyone cares about, but still, it only seems like it will negatively impact most teams financially.

Not sure how they go about shifting the leagues. As Joe says, that final season would be a bit ridiculous. I really don't see a way for them to work it. I agree that this is a sneaky way of incorporating B teams into the system, but how would that work? Just insert 8 brand new B teams into the system? The non-league clubs would kick up a right stink if the FL tried that. B teams would wreck the integrity and appeal of the football league and I just don't think the FL would allow that. There would be uproar from fans too. Nobody is going to want to watch their team at home to a PL B team.

Just did a mental exercise in my head to work out how this would work. Worked out that if the leagues were to switch to 20 and expand from 4 to 5 from 1 season to the next, 8 teams would have to be promoted from the conference in one go and and 12 teams from L2 would have to be relegated into the new division three. I don't see a viable way to expand the leagues that won't cause a serious stink.

The initial thought is that this seems entirely unfeasible. Need way more details.

 

[Silver Stone]

Doesn't affect much? It basically means half of League Two, and all but 8 of the Conference would be demoted.

 

[Bobbin']

I think when you start to think about it, there is a fair bit wrong with this. If you had a 20 team league, you are only playing 38 games a season, which means teams will be losing 4 home games. Thats 4 games of match day revenue that some clubs can ill afford to lose. Season ticket prices would have to come down because you are asking for fans to pay for 19 home games instead of 23. Ok, you lose most of the midweek fixtures, which I doubt anyone cares about, but still, it only seems like it will negatively impact most teams financially.

Not sure how they go about shifting the leagues. As Joe says, that final season would be a bit ridiculous. I really don't see a way for them to work it. I agree that this is a sneaky way of incorporating B teams into the system, but how would that work? Just insert 8 brand new B teams into the system? The non-league clubs would kick up a right stink if the FL tried that. B teams would wreck the integrity and appeal of the football league and I just don't think the FL would allow that. There would be uproar from fans too. Nobody is going to want to watch their team at home to a PL B team.

Just did a mental exercise in my head to work out how this would work. Worked out that if the leagues were to switch to 20 and expand from 4 to 5 from 1 season to the next, 8 teams would have to be promoted from the conference in one go and and 12 teams from L2 would have to be relegated into the new division three. I don't see a viable way to expand the leagues that won't cause a serious stink.

The initial thought is that this seems entirely unfeasible. Need way more details.

Actually that was another concern of mine.

The BBC report suggests this will increase revenue for clubs but I can't see how. The only thing I can think of is there will be more away fans with less Tuesday games but that surely doesn't balance out the 4 extra home games you would normally have.

Also, it's not only the football league that will be re-structured, it's the whole non-leagues. If 8 teams are promoted from the conference then who takes their place, so on and so on.

 

[Muzzle]

Bollox to it. The first thing they should do is go back to the days when you were guaranteed local matches on Boxing Day and New Years day for a start

 

[Strawberry_Jam]

90% of football league clubs must agree. I can't see it happening. Thank god.

 

[Dayman]

As most posts above, in theory it doesn't seem that bad and doesn't really change a whole amount.

It has it's pros and cons.

How would this affect both the league cup and FA cup though? The idea is supposedly to decrease fixture congestion but surely with an extra league this will require more rounds for both cups anyway?

The JPT? Who plays in that? Will more rounds have to be created to accommodate the extra league?

They're saying the JPT would start with a group stage with 4 teams in each group so everyone would be guaranteed 3 games. Designed to make up in some measure for the fixture shortfall.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

If this proposal was about incorporating the upper non league sides into the FL, because that gap isn't much at all, then maybe it's not bad.

But we all know this is more likely about Premier League Two by another name, with B teams, Celtic / Rangers, and all that bollox.

 

[Bobbin']

If this proposal was about incorporating the upper non league sides into the FL, because that gap isn't much at all, then maybe it's not bad.

But we all know this is more likely about Premier League Two by another name, with B teams, Celtic / Rangers, and all that bollox.

The cynic in me would agree but this proposal has been presented by the football league hasn't it? rather than the PL or FA.

 

[Bobbin']

They're saying the JPT would start with a group stage with 4 teams in each group so everyone would be guaranteed 3 games. Designed to make up in some measure for the fixture shortfall.

So not really fixing fixture congestion then?

You're losing 8 league games. You're also now guaranteed 3 games in the JPT so that's potentially 2 extra games in that competition (if you would be knocked out in the first round in its current format) so the difference is already down to only 6 games without factoring in any extra rounds in the league and FA cups.

Edit: of course, I've just realised its more than 6 games now. So ignore that!

 

[Gashead]

The cynic in me would agree but this proposal has been presented by the football league hasn't it? rather than the PL or FA.

This is what surprised me too, its not a PL/FA proposal. I think clarification needs to be made over the '6 new clubs' bit.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

Actually that was another concern of mine.

The BBC report suggests this will increase revenue for clubs but I can't see how. The only thing I can think of is there will be more away fans with less Tuesday games but that surely doesn't balance out the 4 extra home games you would normally have.

Also, it's not only the football league that will be re-structured, it's the whole non-leagues. If 8 teams are promoted from the conference then who takes their place, so on and so on.

Not to mention it's also a relegation essentially for most of the pyramid. Congrats Maidstone on your promotion to the fifth tier... Lol j/k, go down to level six.

 

[blademan89]

So not really fixing fixture congestion then?

You're losing 8 league games. You're also now guaranteed 3 games in the JPT so that's potentially 2 extra games in that competition (if you would be knocked out in the first round in its current format) so the difference is already down to only 6 games without factoring in any extra rounds in the league and FA cups.

Edit: of course, I've just realised its more than 6 games now. So ignore that!

I think the fixture congestion side of it is to please championship clubs

 

[Bobbin']

I think the fixture congestion side of it is to please championship clubs

You're probably right but what a load of shit though.

They already play far less games then the sides in leagues below them, FA cup third round, no JPT etc.

 

[blademan89]

You're probably right but what a load of shit though.

They already play far less games then the sides in leagues below them, FA cup third round, no JPT etc.

Yes but none of lower league teams moan about it. The players probably don't moan about it in the higher leagues it's the managers and the fitness coaches etc talking absolute shite.

 

[Dayman]

So not really fixing fixture congestion then?

You're losing 8 league games. You're also now guaranteed 3 games in the JPT so that's potentially 2 extra games in that competition (if you would be knocked out in the first round in its current format) so the difference is already down to only 6 games without factoring in any extra rounds in the league and FA cups.

Edit: of course, I've just realised its more than 6 games now. So ignore that!

The line from the football league about easing fixture congestion is bullshit. Certainly for the lower leagues. If anyone thinks the interests of FL clubs in the lower leagues rank anywhere in these proposals then they're deluded. The end game is PL "B" teams getting involved at the highest level possible and burying smaller clubs because we offer little when it comes to TV rights and making more money.

 

[SMH]

The Football League can't be trusted. It's plainly obvious that they couldn't care less about fans as much as they try to convince us otherwise. This reaks of a smokescreen to shoehorn those B teams into the Football League and perhaps create a Premier League 2 in all but name with the Championship. I can't see them letting 8 National League Teams go up in one season. The fixture congestion/midweek games argument is also flawed as Sky Sports will move lots of games to a week night in order to televise them anyway. They'll probably be even more televised games as well, which means more games being moved.

You can guarantee that the Premier League and the Football League have been behind closed doors trying to figure out how they can get the B teams in. The solution from the Premier League is probably simple bribery to the Football League and all the clubs. "If we throw enough money at the Football League clubs with the provision of letting B teams join the league, the club owners will approve the plans". That's probably their logic!

The Championship is getting bigger and bigger especially when you have clubs like Villa and Newcastle joining the league. It's apparently the fourth most watched league in Europe. The Football League will be looking to market and sell it to oversees television and a twenty team league similar to the Premier League with no midweek games played at the same time as the Champions League fits the bill.

I don't think it's a terrible idea to be fair, I just think the intentions of the Football League are false. They aren't doing this for the fans, they're doing it for themselves and the Premier League in order to get a bigger slice of the billions that gets dished out to the top division.

 

[Kim Mitten]

Interesting proposals - but I can't see them passing due to the loss of income from home gates.
If this is truly about fixture congestion then rather than restructuring the leagues I'd like to see the JPT and League Cup scrapped.
Expanding the JPT would do sod all to help income - majority of clubs lose a lot of money hosting JPT games when 1,000-2,000 people turn up, only time any money is made from the competition is getting to the regional finals/national final.

I would also have thought the non-league will have to be consulted about all of this as it will affect the National league right down the semi-professional ladder.
I think what we would all agree on that would help football at all levels in this country would be a fairer distribution of the reams of money that are currently at the very top of the game.

 

[dedwardp]

I wonder if this is the reason the FL scheduling for midweek games has been dreadful over the last few years (e.g. Hartlepool vs us, Carlisle played Plymouth on a Tuesday night too, plus other long distance games)

The reason is that a lot of the teams prefer it - Carlisle going to Plymouth for a Tuesday night game doesn't need an overnight stop like the Saturday fixture would etc, it's cheaper.

teams will be losing 4 home games. Thats 4 games of match day revenue that some clubs can ill afford to lose.

All midweek games though, in theory - so then it depends on the club. A 2,500 crowd watching Colchester v Fleetwood on a Tuesday night doesn't really make any money anyway.

 

[T.A]

Interesting proposals - but I can't see them passing due to the loss of income from home gates.
If this is truly about fixture congestion then rather than restructuring the leagues I'd like to see the JPT and League Cup scrapped.
Expanding the JPT would do sod all to help income - majority of clubs lose a lot of money hosting JPT games when 1,000-2,000 people turn up, only time any money is made from the competition is getting to the regional finals/national final.

I would also have thought the non-league will have to be consulted about all of this as it will affect the National league right down the semi-professional ladder.
I think what we would all agree on that would help football at all levels in this country would be a fairer distribution of the reams of money that are currently at the very top of the game.

I'm not a fan of the JPT in its current format but if games were played on Saturday and there was a group stage of let's say for example on the North : Bury, Oldham, Rochdale and Bolton or even Bury, Accy, Crewe and Bradford I do think more people would attend. Have all tickets priced at £10 Adults, £5 u16 and free for u12 with a paying adult.

If this was to happen though the league cup should be scrapped. There's no need for both of them imo.

 

[Dayman]

League cup over JPT every time. Since we got into the FL some of our best nights have been in the league cup against bigger clubs. All our JPT games have been forgettable. To be honest thought the league cup will probably die because the rich kids don't like it.

Speaking of nights if we lose midweek league games I'll be gutted.