Native speakers should re-learn English?

[Art Morte]

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20161215-you-need-to-go-back-to-school-to-relearn-english

As a non-native speaker of English, I've always enjoyed the opportunity to talk with native speakers. It's pretty much the best exercise you can have when it comes to talking and interacting in a foreign language. So, I found this article somewhat weird and even stupid. Shouldn't non-native speakers try to elevate themselves closer to native speakers' level, rather than native speakers lowering themselves to a non-native level? Although I do understand that it can be a problem for non-native speakers - and have experienced it myself - to understand a native speaker, particularly if they have a strong accent, but it still seems daft to me that native speakers of English should "re-learn" their own language.

Since this is almost solely a British forum I was curious to hear your thoughts on this, plus if you have any personal experience related to this topic.

 

[eightiesrobin]

My work sometimes means I have to speak to non-native speakers, and I'm very conscious of cutting out colloquialisms, slang, idioms etc. I tend to find those interactions less interesting as a result. I don't have a particularly strong accent, otherwise I'd probably have to modify my speech more.

 

[Pliny Harris]

I often code switch around non-native speakers to a more standard English, like eightiesrobin with fewer colloquialisms etc, but the slightly smaller pool of vocabulary and turns of phrase is often made up for, as our conversations can be a lot more open, wide-ranging, even friendlier. It's an alright trade-off. Then when idioms, references or whatever do slip through, you can often have a good laugh about them, as well as those of the non-native speaker. A hell of a lot of work is put into learning a new language at conversational level, especially when done independently, and it's worth bridging the slight gap as the native speaker to get on in the world, I find. The fewer hangups I have, the more worthwhile it tends to be.

The notes on grammar in that argument ring true for me. Go on Facebook and czech out your local paper's comment sections, your football club's unofficial fans forum, the Daily Express' comments section or what have you and there's often horrific stuff on a level that foreign speakers would struggle to emulate. Some cursory glances: [RE: a football manager] "absolute joke playin at home to just under 1600 fans ... your a absolute shame to the town ..... get rid of him. #manager./garner repay the fans for there tickets ... time to go manager goodbye bosomworth start to wake and realise the mess . Should never let harvey go ." [RE: a manslaughter conviction] "This guy is not as bad as makes out! Iv new this guy all my life near enough dnt jugde on wotbu read!"

I get the impression that a lot of native speakers are being failed in the UK and the average reading/writing comprehension is that of an eight-year-old. It's a pity, and there's usually an anti-intellectual streak going on, often accompanied with some bizarre opinion about running over cyclists because they don't pay road tax.

Wouldn't call myself a prescriptivist from any perspective. No-one is perfect at their language, those preserving dialects, patois, accents should feel proud, incorrect English can often flow even when made out of ignorance, of course it can. Still, everybody including myself can always benefit by doing more to communicate as intended. An inquisitive mind is a good one, and academic performance doesn't always play a role.

As a final note, it's interesting to see issues in other languages. A Croatian-Italian friend once told me how she went to one school on an Italian island, where huge effort was put in to teach them the provincial dialect, with little high Italian involved. Apparently most of the kids there were very proud of the Italian they spoke, at the expense of being understood anywhere else on earth. In Yorkshire, I find it very sad how our dialect has been shouted out of us by generations of schoolmasters, resulting to so many words and sounds vanishing from English as a whole, although some words (eg. gormless, chunder) have now been assimilated up and down the country. It all presupposes that we can differentiate between local and global English [Four hours later edit: it seems like I abandoned this post mid-sentence when my pizza arrived but still submitted it. Since I can't remember where I was going here, just assume it was more pub talk.]

 

[eightiesrobin]

I do enjoy the words and phrases unique to local areas, or from previous eras. I've had a few jobs working with older people, and would often hear things I'd never heard before, even as I approached my late 30s / early 40s.

Vive la difference and all that.

Art Morte - have you ever watched the film "Kes"?

 

[Leo]

Some folk come up with cracking ideas don't they......

........I've got by not too bad for my 61 years and have managed to make myself understood to both native & non.

 

[TubularBells]

It all depends on who's company you are in when it comes to speech. I adapt dependent on the company I am in. I am all for dialect's and accents but I do think people should be able to spell correctly and use correct grammar. It is a real bug bear of mine when people don't know their 'Their's from their they're, there' etc.

 

[johnnytodd]

i've never met a red indian

 

[JaseTheVillain]

I have to soften my accent if I go as far as bleeding Birmingham, so I am used to the changing of the accent dependant on situation. Not to mention living in Australia for 2.5 years, I pretty much spoke the Queen's English to them, but then went home and spoke to parents in full on Black Country. To the point a friend came around and perfectly understood when we spoke to him, but couldn't understand a word when we spoke to each other.

It is not difficult to change how you speak depending on the situation. So, in summary, that 'article' is a load of shite.

Though, I wouldn't be against sending half of these idiots on Facebook/Twitter/anywhere else on the internet that Pliny alluded to back to school for a lesson on grammar and spelling. It isn't difficult and doesn't take any more effort to type properly as opposed to typin lyk dis. That, for me was more difficult to type than just typing as I am now.

The thing I don't understand is that it is more my generation that grew up with text speak, and yet most of the people you see typing like it are 30-40+, more of the people of my generation actually type properly. It genuinely baffles me, as these people surely had it more drilled into them to write properly, I guess typing is a different art, but I still don't understand it.

 

[Leo]

I have to soften my accent if I go as far as bleeding Birmingham, so I am used to the changing of the accent dependant on situation. Not to mention living in Australia for 2.5 years, I pretty much spoke the Queen's English to them, but then went home and spoke to parents in full on Black Country. To the point a friend came around and perfectly understood when we spoke to him, but couldn't understand a word when we spoke to each other.

It is not difficult to change how you speak depending on the situation. So, in summary, that 'article' is a load of shite.

Though, I wouldn't be against sending half of these idiots on Facebook/Twitter/anywhere else on the internet that Pliny alluded to back to school for a lesson on grammar and spelling. It isn't difficult and doesn't take any more effort to type properly as opposed to typin lyk dis. That, for me was more difficult to type than just typing as I am now.

The thing I don't understand is that it is more my generation that grew up with text speak, and yet most of the people you see typing like it are 30-40+, more of the people of my generation actually type properly. It genuinely baffles me, as these people surely had it more drilled into them to write properly, I guess typing is a different art, but I still don't understand it.

My instant reaction is to disagree with that Jase especially with folks roundabout my age. Can you give any/some examples (seriously). I know sometimes I take shortcuts but that is basically down to laziness on my part at times and also what I have seen used on forums. You are correct typing is 'totally' a different art as I would never think of writing as I do typing at times.

 

[Indian Dan]

I speak louder. If Italian I just end each word with either an i or an o. Similarly, Chinese made easy can be achieved by changing r to l.

Scouse is impossible.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

My instant reaction is to disagree with that Jase especially with folks roundabout my age. Can you give any/some examples (seriously). I know sometimes I take shortcuts but that is basically down to laziness on my part at times and also what I have seen used on forums. You are correct typing is 'totally' a different art as I would never think of writing as I do typing at times.

Honestly, my Facebook is rife with it, I'm not going to provide examples for obvious privacy reasons. Perhaps it's just people around here who are thick bastards (wouldn't surprise me).

 

[TubularBells]

The thing I don't understand is that it is more my generation that grew up with text speak, and yet most of the people you see typing like it are 30-40+, more of the people of my generation actually type properly.

I'm 44 next year and even send text's which are spelled correctly. I get annoyed when people text me with 'txt speak'. I feel your pain on the 'people of a certain age' doing it. I have a few friends on facebook my age who do it. I put it down to poor education or just where they are from. I'm from Burnley and the accent has to be one of the most annoying accents in Britain. I cringe when I hear it (Michael Phelan is a Burnley lad and I squirm when he speaks) but moreso, there is a tendency to type phonetically (IE. Type as they speak) there. Typing phonetically really bugs me. As you alluded to above. You adapt to your surroundings. I live in Liverpool and couldn't understand them at first.. They use different words to what I was used to. Now I adapt to it when I am around them but don't speak like them outside of it. As a general rule. I adopt a general 'Queen's English' means of communication which causes confusion all on it's own. Northerners call lunch, 'dinner'. I refer to it as lunch, and dinner is what they call tea. There's been a few occasions of misinterpretation such as that and a few missed appointments because their idea of dinner is approximately five hours earlier than mine.

 

[Veggie Legs]

I have to soften my accent if I go as far as bleeding Birmingham, so I am used to the changing of the accent dependant on situation. Not to mention living in Australia for 2.5 years, I pretty much spoke the Queen's English to them, but then went home and spoke to parents in full on Black Country. To the point a friend came around and perfectly understood when we spoke to him, but couldn't understand a word when we spoke to each other.

It is not difficult to change how you speak depending on the situation. So, in summary, that 'article' is a load of shite.

Agree with this, I think it's mostly subconscious in the same way that you'd modify other behaviours depending on the situation. My girlfriend always went proper Suffolk when she spoke to her nan, the first time I heard it it confused the hell out of me but she didn't really know that she was doing it.