Play offs should be 1-leg affairs

[Kenneth E End]

Discuss.

The National League this season brought in a 6 team play off system, with the top 2 teams seeded to the semi finals and the others playing in qualifying semi finals / eliminators, also allowing more teams to keep their season alive.

I know last season's League 2 play offs weren't exactly cagey and had something like 22 goals in 4 games, generally the first legs are dour affairs with both teams not looking to lose. What's the point? And surely the best two teams should be given more of an "on the day" advantage as a result of their finishing positions.

Is it also an advantage to be at home in the second leg? Luton (I think) have played in the play offs five times, plus 2 FA Trophy semi finals since the 1990s and never got promoted / got through. We've also never got a final finishing in the top 2 outside the automatics or with home advantage in the second leg. I know Luton are just bottlers in semi finals.

I wouldn't necessarily (at League 2 level) allow 8th and 9th into the play offs, but have the best performing 'relegated' side to contest these play offs to give them a chance to stay up. Unlikely to happen, I know.

 

[djs]

Personally I hate the whole idea of play-offs with a vengeance, and hand on heart that is nothing at all to do with our record in them. As far as I am concerned, the best teams over the regular season should go up. And how a team finishing seventh in a league with one automatic promotion spot can even be considered beats me.

I might just allow myself to be convinced that a play--off between, say, third from bottom of one league and the team third from top in the next one down is acceptable, just.

Despite all of the talk about keeping things interesting, I think that the real reason is purely financial.

 

[Kenneth E End]

Personally I hate the whole idea of play-offs with a vengeance, and hand on heart that is nothing at all to do with our record in them. As far as I am concerned, the best teams over the regular season should go up. And how a team finishing seventh in a league with one automatic promotion spot can even be considered beats me.

I might just allow myself to be convinced that a play--off between, say, third from bottom of one league and the team third from top in the next one down is acceptable, just.

Despite all of the talk about keeping things interesting, I think that the real reason is purely financial.

It keeps the season going for longer, for more teams.
That's surely a good thing, right?

 

[roversfan2001]

Think it works well in the National League where there's only one promotion place but a 6 team play-off wouldn't work in the EFL.

 

[JJ1532]

I really like the conference format. Sky and the FL likely would never opt to switch things at this level, but it does feel a fairer system than what we have now. I personally felt that we benefitted from the current system in 2012. We snuck in by confirming our place on the last day and carried in some superb form. Southend on the other had lost some momentum and missed out on promotion on the final day.

We were at home in the first leg, snuck out a 1-0 win and then simply drew the 2nd leg. I don't think there is a clear advantage from finishing 4th/5th and having the 2nd leg at home.

At least the conference play-offs reward your league season by giving you an easier route to the final the higher you finish. Felt fair that this season, the final was between 2nd and 4th and the team that finished 2nd went up.

As for whether the play-offs are fair, for me, every team that makes the play-offs know what they are in for. If the team in 4th wants to avoid an injustice, they should prove they are the better team over 2 games. Or be good enough to go up in the top 3.

 

[Liam_SWFC]

It's fine for the NL as they only have 1 automatic promotion spot, not so much in the football league.

 

[TractorBoys]

Love the playoffs and the 2-leg system, despite our typically poor record in them.

Football is an entertainment business, after all.

 

[shoddycollins]

The playoffs gives more teams something to play for right up to the last weeks of the season. Take them away and you'll get a situation where from March onwards, half the games are dead rubbers. Whatever you think about the fairness of playoffs the give the sport one of its defining features.

 

[Kim Mitten]

Despite all of the talk about keeping things interesting, I think that the real reason is purely financial.

It certainly is, back in 2005 when Southend went up from this division via the playoffs the Chief Exec told the end of season awards do that the club had made over £500k from the playoffs and he was quite pleased that we'd bottled the final day and ended up 4th instead of 3rd.

 

[Si Robin]

I think the playoffs work, and as others said, it gives a lot more teams something to play for in the last couple of months of the season.

Let's just be grateful football hasn't gone down the route of both rugby codes and all American sports by having a playoff to actually determine the champions in a season.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I think it works great in non-league having now seen both (as a Carlisle fan in FL) and watching Ashton United other week.

It is especially good with the higher placed sides getting home advantage because it genuinly gives reason to work hard until end of season for a placement (coventry may have had a go last day in these circumstances)

but it does suit non league, crowds are not big enough to use Neutral grounds, players can be knackered by end of season for two legged games and sometimes midweek games are hard for part time players to attend so shoving extra games in can be tough.

Problem in FL is play-offs are a good media and money making thing, two legged games usually with full houses at all grounds, then 3 big finals for Sky to build and show again with big gates.

 

[Blue Lion]

The Conference play offs were ridiculously cagey though. Most teams just didn't want to concede at all costs so it led to pretty dull games.

However the race to get into them was far more interesting than it was under the old format so that was a positive. And I liked the fact that it gave a bigger advsantage to the higher placed teams.

 

[Laker]

I’d question Kenny’s comment over whether the 2nd leg being at home isn’t an advantage. In the five play offs we’ve entered (1990 division 4, 1992 division 2, conference 2008, 2009 and 2014), we were at home 2nd for 3 of them and won all (after drawing one 1st leg and losing the other 2) whereas our record the other way round is 50/50, and the one we won was after extra time (we were spanked 5-0 in the 2nd leg of the other one). Both times we drew the home legs 1-1.

As a higher placing (and therefore, in theory, better) team, you should be able to beat a lower ranked team over two legs (esp with the second one at home) and if you can’t then I’d question whether you 100% deserve to be promoted anyway.

Otherwise, I agree with Kenny that the play off system in the conference which favours the higher ranked team is definitely something I like. But if they wanted to bring that into League 2 then I’d only want to have two up automatically - you can’t have a team finishing 9th getting promoted. 7th or 8th is bad enough.

I’m not in favour of bringing teams avoiding the drop into the play offs. The beauty of the play offs is you have sides who have had excellent seasons (often in good form) and who have built up a season long rivalry playing each other. You miss both of those factors by bringing sides in from the league above.

 

[Greenacres]

Let's just be grateful football hasn't gone down the route of both rugby codes and all American sports by having a playoff to actually determine the champions in a season.

Agree totally, logic says that if your finish top of the table at the end of the season you are crowned champions. Some of the moaniest people known to civilization, which is pushing it a bit, are Gloucester rugby fans whose team seems able to finish on top of the table but bottle the play-offs...and they think that football fans are stupid, they should look a bit closer to home and how their game is organised.

I don't mind the play-offs for deciding the final promotion place, we have been the beneficiaries of this, but for deciding the champions...no thanks.

 

[Kenneth E End]

I’d question Kenny’s comment over whether the 2nd leg being at home isn’t an advantage. In the five play offs we’ve entered (1990 division 4, 1992 division 2, conference 2008, 2009 and 2014), we were at home 2nd for 3 of them and won all (after drawing one 1st leg and losing the other 2) whereas our record the other way round is 50/50, and the one we won was after extra time (we were spanked 5-0 in the 2nd leg of the other one). Both times we drew the home legs 1-1.

As a higher placing (and therefore, in theory, better) team, you should be able to beat a lower ranked team over two legs (esp with the second one at home) and if you can’t then I’d question whether you 100% deserve to be promoted anyway.

Otherwise, I agree with Kenny that the play off system in the conference which favours the higher ranked team is definitely something I like. But if they wanted to bring that into League 2 then I’d only want to have two up automatically - you can’t have a team finishing 9th getting promoted. 7th or 8th is bad enough.

I’m not in favour of bringing teams avoiding the drop into the play offs. The beauty of the play offs is you have sides who have had excellent seasons (often in good form) and who have built up a season long rivalry playing each other. You miss both of those factors by bringing sides in from the league above.

No I agree about only 3 up in League 2. This still dates back from the north and south days. There should be 3 up in the Conference, but that seems to have gone a bit quiet since part timers are getting to finals.

 

[Vanni]

I'm all for 3 up from the conference (1st and 2nd go up automatically, 3rd side from the play offs) and 3 down from L2. Far too many shit sides in L2 and only the two relegation spots doesn't sit right with me.

As for the play offs, it makes sense to me seeing there are 24 teams in L2, and that is a lot. There'd be no need for play offs though if the league was made up of only 16 or 18 sides.

 

[thewwfc]

I suppose getting rid of the playoffs would allow the REAL key award of the mid-table champion to be determined sooner - but other than that, they’re OK.

I’m fine with only 2 down to the conf - yes of course there are a ton of shit sides in this division, but mentally it feels like such a step between the two, even if perhaps not in terms of quality.

 

[Indian Dan]

One legged games would just see a transfer rush for Douglas Bader and Heather Mills

 

[thewwfc]

honk that komedy klaxon, kidz

 

[Pablosammy]

The Conference play offs were ridiculously cagey though. Most teams just didn't want to concede at all costs so it led to pretty dull games.

Our semi final finished 4-2!

I was reluctant to be positive about the new playoff format, but I have to say I have been converted (and not just because we won!). It gives a real benefit to finishing higher up the table.

 

[denzel ecfc]

One legged would also have the advantage of shortening the season. At the moment the two finalists finish almost in June, and are back in training five weeks later!
Could reduce that by a week. I know that might mean the finals are the same weekend as the Cup Final so play them somewhere other than Wembley and problem solved.

 

[hellogregory]

There should only be 1 up from the conference.

The idea that a team finishing 7th in that league can get a place in the football league is not right. A place in the football league should be something special, it shouldn’t just be handed out easily, you should really have to earn it by having a great season and winning the league, nothing less.

2 promotion places and playoffs in whatever format is fine between the football leagues, just not the conference and the league. That needs to be a narrow opening, otherwise we’ll end up with some real shite coming up. I mean, imagine if Borehamwood or Ebbsfleet had got up!

 

[denzel ecfc]

There should only be 1 up from the conference.

The idea that a team finishing 7th in that league can get a place in the football league is not right. A place in the football league should be something special, it shouldn’t just be handed out easily, you should really have to earn it by having a great season and winning the league, nothing less.

2 promotion places and playoffs in whatever format is fine between the football leagues, just not the conference and the league. That needs to be a narrow opening, otherwise we’ll end up with some real shite coming up. I mean, imagine if Borehamwood or Ebbsfleet had got up!

But they didn't. Tranmere came up instead. I'm sure people thought that Burton, Fleetwood and Accrington were shite too but they haven't done too badly.
Maybe three down would flush a bit more dead wood down
.

 

[Pablosammy]

There should only be 1 up from the conference.

The idea that a team finishing 7th in that league can get a place in the football league is not right. A place in the football league should be something special, it shouldn’t just be handed out easily, you should really have to earn it by having a great season and winning the league, nothing less.

2 promotion places and playoffs in whatever format is fine between the football leagues, just not the conference and the league. That needs to be a narrow opening, otherwise we’ll end up with some real shite coming up. I mean, imagine if Borehamwood or Ebbsfleet had got up!

I'm sure Wrexham, Leyton Orient, Chesterfield, Stockport, York, Hartlepool et al would disagree!

I think it should be three up, three down, but with the proviso that FFP rules are introduced in the Conference to stop hobby clubs being 'bought into' the league. There's no need to pull up the ladder.

 

[Meadow]

If it wasn't for the playoffs, I'm not sure that we'd be in L1 now. 6 promotions, three as winners and three as playoff winners. I'd prefer to see an extra automatic promotion spot from each league personally.

 

[redjed]

Love the play-offs, i've seen some of best football matches in the finals and semi- finals involving Swindon, and we have been in a lot of them. Also the money that is generated makes it very profitable for the clubs involved.
Long may they last!

 

[PuB]

I'm not even sure the conference should have playoffs at all, the football league is a prestigious place to be and should be kept that way. That is, until we have a league 3 with the clubs down there having to abide by the same financial rules as us.

Playoffs between the leagues otherwise I'm fine with.

 

[valefan16]

Play offs should be kept and as they are personally as 24 clubs is a large league so gives the league more interest for longer having the top seven with something up for grabs.

I also agree that three up, three down to non league would be good again though as long as the National League Premier has the same rules to avoid vanity projects. In fact in maybe time to have League Three (possibly lowering the number of teams to 20-22 in the then four EFL leagues) now as there are many EFL sized clubs in the National League that it would make sense. When I say that I don’t mean in the way that reserve sides from the Prem get a go in it as had been suggested recently!

This idea see’s less games which means less midweek games and less tiredness and allows for the play offs to be done with quicker as mentioned above in their current format.

Also a league three would then be bound by the same financial and general rules as the other EFL leagues and then maybe have a two relegations spots into the new National League (which may be regionalised as is the current North and South).

Also with the expanded EFL sorry Prem reserves guys we’ve no room for you in the Checkatrade!

 

[AdamStag]

The playoffs are a good thing and happy with them being over 2 legs. I think the conference playoffs are very innovative. Can’t ever see the conference system changing anyway, if you had 2 up auto and 1 from the playoffs across the board in the conference set up, 6 would need to go down from the national conference to accom 3 from the north and the south for instance.

Our playoffs in the league are good as they are

 

[Chris FGR]

I think that promotion and relegation between the league and non league should be scrapped altogether. Invite Chesterfield, Barnet, Wrexham, Orient, Hartlepool, Stockport, York, Aldershot, Darlington, Torquay, Kidderminster, Hereford, Chester, Barrow, Gateshead, Halifax, Maidstone and Scarborough and have 2 20 team regional league 2's. With no relegation and no re-election. Perfect.