2019-20 National League South

[Pink Panther]

Politics was mentioned but that would be quite the sweeping generalisation for an entire support base.

We get a lot of sweeping generalisations from supporters of other clubs. Most of it is just banter even if gets a bit tedious at times but there's always a strange minority who conflate it to mean something different, then they get really angry and worked up about it.

I remember playing Billericay at home a few years back when we first began to pull regular four figure crowds. They'd just come back down after one season in National South and were in mid table with crowds of 300 or so. I looked on their messageboard afterwards and someone remarked that "I wouldn't mind the crowd numbers Dulwich get, but I wouldn't want the type of people they get." I wonder what type of people he meant? Women? Children? Ethnic minorities? Gay? Because I'm fairly certain no one was being offensive or unwelcoming to away supporters that day.

The main reason our crowds keep growing, and remain high even after a season and a half of losing more often than we win, is that the club is very proactive about delivering the message that we're a club for every part of the local community. Furthermore it's made very clear that if anyone experiences any sort of abuse or discrimination the club will take action to deal with it. I get the feeling some supporters at other clubs would rather just have the male, stale and pale element who like swearing at the opposition and drinking pints of lager. If you only appeal to that demographic that's why you only get a few hundred through the gate, because anyone else will feel they don't really belong or fit in. Some people just don't seem to get that.

 

[Pinner Stones]

Whenever I see photos of Dulwich fans or been at Dulwich matches verses us, the demographic still seems very pale. I suspect we are more diverse in that regard than you are.

 

[Pink Panther]

Whenever I see photos of Dulwich fans or been at Dulwich matches verses us, the demographic still seems very pale. I suspect we are more diverse in that regard than you are.

We're not the South African cricket team, there isn't a quota system, we don't press-gang people into the ground. The important thing is that anyone who does attend feels welcome, and the club is very proactive with community initiatives promoting matches and offering tickets to groups that will probably include people from ethnic minorities.

At the last home game we had 2,600 against Chelmsford. At half time I got chatting to a Cheltenham Town fan in his sixties who said he'd been to our old ground around 50 years ago. He asked why so many people were here today, what was the special occasion. I had to explain it was just a bog standard mid table match, it's always like this.

After the game I bumped into a fellow supporter of 30 years I hadn't seen since last season. (He lives at Canterbury now, only goes to a few games, and with big crowds you just don't always see people you know.) As we stood chatting near the exit gate an African couple with two children of primary school age politely interrupted and asked if we'd take a photograph of them with the pitch behind. My friend obliged. I wish I'd asked them about their visit now. It was probably their first, they saw an eight goal thriller with a fair bit of slapstick defending and hopefully enjoyed it. Hopefully they'll be back.

I recall seeing a prominent anti-racism banner at Wealdstone's ground last season. There is similarly overt anti-racism and anti-homphobia signage at Dulwich and it goes beyond paying lip service to generic FA initiatives etc. I doubt there's one at Billericay. I suspect that's the sort of club where people will tell you they don't need it because there isn't a problem and you're just pushing "politics" down people's throats.

 

[tommytit]

I normally get myself to a few Dulwich matches a season when Orient are away and I'm not travelling. It's always a decent day out and normally a good chance to watch some footy with mates who support other clubs, in fact the last match I was at (Braintree) I watched with friends who were, Palace, Spurs, Hereford and Liverpool supporters. really easy ground to get to from where I live in North London on the Overground too.

I do get the impression every time I'm there, that half the crowd aren't genuine Dulwich supporters, people like myself, who just enjoy it for the day out.

 

[Pink Panther]

I normally get myself to a few Dulwich matches a season when Orient are away and I'm not travelling. It's always a decent day out and normally a good chance to watch some footy with mates who support other clubs, in fact the last match I was at (Braintree) I watched with friends who were, Palace, Spurs, Hereford and Liverpool supporters. really easy ground to get to from where I live in North London on the Overground too.

I do get the impression every time I'm there, that half the crowd aren't genuine Dulwich supporters, people like myself, who just enjoy it for the day out.

Surely that's what clubs at this level need though, especially in Greater London and other major conurbations where Premier League clubs rule the roost? "A decent day out" etc. Beers on the terrace, no hassle, no segregation.

Some people who support the type of clubs that have a few hundred supporters and a couple of thousand empty spaces in their ground like to sneer at Dulwich. Our whole ethos is just about filling those empty spaces. How many non-league clubs have more spectators than empty spaces? We even sold out for league matches against Eastbourne and Bath last season with hundreds locked out FFS, and were close to it against Chippenham last month.

 

[rudebwoyben]

I certainly think Tony Kleanthous ought to look at how another LONDON club has managed to grow and sustain their fan base over a period of years.
Anyway, I do believe Billericay is in Mark François’ constituency. Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[joethegill]

Come in the home end then. If you're friendly and not a twat, you'll be fine. Some of us would gladly see the end of segregation. Just don't go in with the youth club.

Agree with that. Maidstone have a shitty element, but they all stand as close to the away fans as possible, so anywhere else in the ground is fine as long as you don't act up. The Town End is useful for the excellent pie hut which needs to be experienced, as well as being closest to the bar.

 

[Farleigh]

Or stand at ground level, near the dugouts. I reckon they like it because it reminds them of the county league days when stands were few and far between. Only the wildest weather tempts them onto the covered terraces.

 

[Aberstone]

I wear club colours (polo shirt, I've outgrown wearing replicas) so would be outed before you know it, all hypothetical but as a season ticket holder I'd be given priority over others.

Shame about the rest of the top 7 winning but it was very generous of Slough and Havant to play out a 1-1 draw, now we just need to capitalise on these games in hand.

 

[Pink Panther]

Agree with that. Maidstone have a shitty element, but they all stand as close to the away fans as possible, so anywhere else in the ground is fine as long as you don't act up. The Town End is useful for the excellent pie hut which needs to be experienced, as well as being closest to the bar.

I know some of what happens will be dictated to the club by the Police, but if there's a yob element who are allowed to keep coming back then segregating away supporters and telling them to buy tickets in advance isn't actually addressing the problem. Throw out the local yobs and don't let them back in again.

I don't like segregation, I feel it just emboldens mouthy little gobshites to hurl abuse at away fans without any danger of picking on someone who has a go back, although I can understand why clubs will think it's necessary if the ground is likely to be close to capacity with an away following of several hundred, which will often be the case at Maidstone. However, telling away fans it's all ticket for them but not for the home fans is just daft. (We were told at 48 hours notice that the away section was no longer all ticket after all.) It's not convenient for everyone to commit in advance or to make a specific journey to their home ground just to buy a ticket. It's also encouraging away fans to turn up on the day and go in the home area, which surely defeats the whole object?

 

[mattchapp7]

 

[Raymondo316]

Chesmain's sending off looked proper harsh, he clearly connected with the ball first. As for Elokobi his challenge was stupidly dangerous and very late.

 

[Pink Panther]

Chesmain's sending off looked proper harsh, he clearly connected with the ball first.

He did, it also looks like he slipped which makes it appear worse, but why is he even attempting that challenge? There was little to gain from winning the ball cleanly, he'd have been on the floor anyway so the ball would have gone for a throw or run loose. These incidents always seem to happen out wide near the halfway line when there's no immediate danger. He was at full stretch, not really in control of the challenge, then completely wiped out the man with his momentum. Thirty years ago no one would have bothered about that, but the modern game carries more responsibility to stay on your feet when making a challenge.

So that's two defenders suspended for three matches from next Saturday.

 

[simonfromsurrey]

Garry Hill offered Chelmsford job. A great fit for him and I would expect them to do really well

 

[Aberstone]

Garry Hill offered Chelmsford job. A great fit for him and I would expect them to do really well

He turned it down however due to not being able to agree to terms as confirmed by Chelmsford's chairman last night. They're now looking elsewhere.

 

[Raymondo316]

Well that's our season now over, bring on mid table

I've defended John Still a lot and hoped this would work out due to his past at Maidstone, but his second spell in charge has been a massive disappointment. Tonight we're losing 1-0 and what does he do?? take off our only forward and replace him with another centre half (we ended the game with four of them). Meanwhile there was a perfectly fit forward on the bench who management refuse to give a chance.

As for his mate the Hak, I can see why Braintree fans hate him so much......he's utterly clueless.

 

[#Beebot]

Well that's our season now over, bring on mid table

I've defended John Still a lot and hoped this would work out due to his past at Maidstone, but his second spell in charge has been a massive disappointment. Tonight we're losing 1-0 and what does he do?? take off our only forward and replace him with another centre half (we ended the game with four of them). Meanwhile there was a perfectly fit forward on the bench who management refuse to give a chance.

As for his mate the Hak, I can see why Braintree fans hate him so much......he's utterly clueless.

Still's career is done and he made that clear when he left us. You must be paying him truckloads to still be in management, and you probably can't afford to sack him. For a team on your budget to be sitting outside the top 7 is really poor.

As was the case here, though, he's not really underachieving with the players available, because he signed them himself and they aren't good enough. Still plus any kind of decent playing budget is a recipe for disaster. You'd better hope they aren't all on two year deals like ours were!

 

[joethegill]

Well that's our season now over, bring on mid table

I've defended John Still a lot and hoped this would work out due to his past at Maidstone, but his second spell in charge has been a massive disappointment. Tonight we're losing 1-0 and what does he do?? take off our only forward and replace him with another centre half (we ended the game with four of them). Meanwhile there was a perfectly fit forward on the bench who management refuse to give a chance.

As for his mate the Hak, I can see why Braintree fans hate him so much......he's utterly clueless.

Quite glad I didn't bother going down there last night now! Annoying for the club not being at National League level, but on a personal note I do prefer the South...

 

[Raymondo316]

What a fucking shambles!!

If the owners stupidly decide to renew Still & his mates contract at the end of the season they can expect our crowds to drop even more next season. Already a fair few people have said they won't be renewing their season ticket next season if these 2 return.

How different things could of been if 18 months ago we had appointed Hessenthaler (he wanted the job) instead of Harry Wheeler

 

[Aberstone]

Really impressive 3-1 win over Dorking yesterday considering we played 45 minutes down a man. It was the first (and hopefully only) league game I've missed this season but from those who were there, there were 2 key things to take away from the game:

i) Dorking's awful disciplinary record should come as no surprise, constantly engaged in theatrics whether that be diving, being niggly off the ball or crowding the referee when a free kick did go their way to try and get our players booked or sent off.

ii) They were also incredibly lightweight.

Hopefully the rain isn't too bad these next 48 hours and we can get Tuesday night's game at home to Chelmsford on.

 

[#Beebot]

What a fucking shambles!!

If the owners stupidly decide to renew Still & his mates contract at the end of the season they can expect our crowds to drop even more next season. Already a fair few people have said they won't be renewing their season ticket next season if these 2 return.

How different things could of been if 18 months ago we had appointed Hessenthaler (he wanted the job) instead of Harry Wheeler

I can't see Still staying unless you pay through the nose for him which you surely wouldn't do again given your league position.

He would have retired after leaving Luton if teams weren't continually prepared to meet his huge wage demands.

 

[Leewilson]

He turned it down however due to not being able to agree to terms as confirmed by Chelmsford's chairman last night. They're now looking elsewhere.

They should go for Jody Brown

 

[Aberstone]

They should go for Jody Brown

I wish they did, we may well have won last night...

--------------------------------------------------------

Got to give Chelmsford credit, really ballsy play pressing us high up and with the heavy pitch we couldn't get our passing rhythm in sync, forcing us to go long too often which was bread and butter for their centre halves. We weren't without our chances but that said they had 3-4 guilt edged chances which either went wide or were saved (outstandingly) by Aston Oxborough in goal. Last night was also one of the rare few occasions this season where we've lost the midfield.

The referee was comfortably the worst I've seen all season, missed a stonewall penalty for both teams and allowed Chelmsford's timewasting antics to get completely out of hand.

 

[Aberstone]

Fair result at Dartford this afternoon, for us it does feel a bit like two points dropped with Dennon Lewis missing a penalty (I hope that doesn't come back to bite us at the end of the season) but Dartford were a very well drilled side who like us tried to play football in challenging conditions.

Tonbridge on Tuesday, having seen a picture of their pitch from earlier on this week there is no way they get the game on.

 

[Pinner Stones]

Darts 0 Stones 0

Probably a fair result with neither keeper really called upon to make difficult saves, though the Darts fella did make a couple of nice camera ones.

Their CBs were excellent and our tikka taka style didn’t really come off in difficult weather conditions. We probably had all four seasons in the second half . Defensively we were excellent mind.

I thought the referee was excellent especially dealing with their ludicrous diving. Dartford were the form side going into the game, so would have taken a point; though, I suppose, very good sides do find a way to win games like that with a bit of shithousery. We did have those chances. We hit the wood work, missed a pen late on and had another very good chance thereafter.

Most hilarious part of the day was the Dartford youth waiting outside the gates at our end. Not sure what they thought they were going to do.

 

[Raymondo316]

I can't wait for this season to just end!
All I can look forward to is hopefully these 2 leaving and the club finally seeing sense and going back part time.

 

[Pink Panther]

Tonbridge on Tuesday, having seen a picture of their pitch from earlier on this week there is no way they get the game on.

Looks like it might not be Tonbridge on any other day this season going by this statement they've released:

https://www.tonbridgeangels.co.uk/f...f-letter-sent-to-tonbridge-angels-owners/1141

I guess Maidstone would be the obvious alternative to play fixtures, or even Bromley?

I can't wait for this season to just end!
All I can look forward to is hopefully these 2 leaving and the club finally seeing sense and going back part time.

It could be worse, you could be Dulwich. We slipped to within a point of the relegation places by losing at home to a very limited Tonbridge side, who leapfrogged us as a result. I'm assuming there will be a reprieve for someone in this division due to the demise of Bury and the much poorer records of the strugglers in the North Division, but we shouldn't be anywhere near the relegation places with our squad and a budget that can't be less than £10k a week.

 

[Pinner Stones]

Does the Dulwich manager have something on the board? I appreciate and understand loyalty, but not convinced that Rose is up to managing at this level. He’s squandered resources.

By the club’s reckoning, our budget is around halfway, hence why we have overachieved so much. Not sure I’d agree with a mid table budget, but certainly Maidstone, Havant, Dartford, Dulwich, Chelmsford, Hemel, Bath, Billericay are paying more than us. We are probably the same as St Albans and Slough,

 

[Pinner Stones]

I guess Maidstone would be the obvious alternative to play fixtures, or even Bromley?


.

it has been suggested that our game on Tuesday was to be moved to Maidstone, but the league said no. They have yet to inspect the pitch apparently. Not sure we’d be too keen to go to plastic, so Dartford might make more sense, though they already have three teams playing at their ground.

 

[#Beebot]

Does the Dulwich manager have something on the board? I appreciate and understand loyalty, but not convinced that Rose is up to managing at this level. He’s squandered resources.

By the club’s reckoning, our budget is around halfway, hence why we have overachieved so much. Not sure I’d agree with a mid table budget, but certainly Maidstone, Havant, Dartford, Dulwich, Chelmsford, Hemel, Bath, Billericay are paying more than us. We are probably the same as St Albans and Slough,

You probably have a higher budget than Slough, whose squad is still very similar to the one they had in the Southern league a couple of years ago.

I have a lot of respect for Gavin Rose as his teams play attractive football but whenever I see Dulwich they always look so naive. Rose really should have got them up a couple of seasons before he did and they haven't even flirted with the top 7 since coming up. When you look at what Slough have done on a lower budget it reflects pretty poorly on Dulwich, and it's not like Slough's football is any less attractive to watch either.