2024/25 League Two Promotion Thread

[kieran_vale]

Yet, in the top 6 of L1 right now we have Wrexham, Stockport, Wycombe and Leyton Orient. Exeter, Lincoln and Mansfield all looking stable too. That's almost a third of the division with stadiums that present each club with some of the same problems you touch upon.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you or Grimsby Road are saying, however it's certainly not as final as you're suggesting. It is possible to grow without moving to a new build. Admittedly not as efficient or easy but certainly still possible.

It’s not an easy one to answer and is something that crops up occasionally regards us. Both stadiums are older and as such there are certain maintenance costs that come with that which can become a millstone. If you can get it right with a new stadium it’s great. I always view Rotherham as the gold standard on that front. I do take the point on some of them being soulless though, one that comes to mind there is Shrewsbury which is out of town and was as generic a build as you could get.

 

[Limerick Mariner]

Personally I don’t like Donny’s ground one bit!

Soulless, and little or no decent pubs close by.

I much prefer Notts County’s ground for atmosphere and fantastic location in a great city.

Btw, I am pretty certain there are no traces of asbestos at BP. Some slow redevelopment over a move to some mecano box for me

Notts and Bradford the best away days in League 2. Best stadium in the East Mids is Leicester Tigers. Stadium bars encircle almost the entire perimeter. 4k capacity terrace all down one side to stand and watch with your pint. Station 10 mins walk and loads of pubs nearby.

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

Yet, in the top 6 of L1 right now we have Wrexham, Stockport, Wycombe and Leyton Orient. Exeter, Lincoln and Mansfield all looking stable too. That's almost a third of the division with stadiums that present each club with some of the same problems you touch upon.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you or Grimsby Road are saying, however it's certainly not as final as you're suggesting. It is possible to grow without moving to a new build. Admittedly not as efficient or easy but certainly still possible.

True to some extent but you you omitted mentioning that Wrexham are well into the process of adding 5000+ seats to their stadium, Stockport have grand plans underway to hugely increase their capacity. Wycombe don't need to expand due to fanbase and isn't an old stadium with many issues. Orient I've never been to and they are having a tremendous season. Lincoln are expanding their stadium, Mansfield are finally doing the same and completing their stadium. They are all modernising, expanding not patching up and shrinking.

Of course you can still grow at BP but you are doing it with one hand tied behind your back. It's like having having a boat with lots of holes in it, you can keep it a float but nobody looks forward to being in it.

How easy is it to develop and replace stands at BP to bring it into the 1990s?

 

[Limerick Mariner]

True to some extent but you you omitted mentioning that Wrexham are well into the process of adding 5000+ seats to their stadium, Stockport have grand plans underway to hugely increase their capacity. Wycombe don't need to expand due to fanbase and isn't an old stadium with many issues. Orient I've never been to and they are having a tremendous season. Lincoln are expanding their stadium, Mansfield are finally doing the same and completing their stadium. They are all modernising, expanding not patching up and shrinking.

Of course you can still grow at BP but you are doing it with one hand tied behind your back. It's like having having a boat with lots of holes in it, you can keep it a float but nobody looks forward to being in it.

How easy is it to develop and replace stands at BP to bring it into the 1990s?

I'd start with the Pontoon end and corners at that end. Rebuild it cantilever with filled in corners round to the Main and Findus. There is little room behind but you could get some concourse F and B in underneath. Capacity maybe 3.5k, I would have a couple of blocks of safe standing in there. That would take us to a usable 10k capacity with about 8.2k home and 1.8k away giving the whole of the Osmond back to away. Not enough for some League 1 games but would allow us to sell 6k season tickets and good walk-up sale options which we don't have at present.

 

[JJ1990]

93 - Predicted Champions
90 - Average Champions
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82 - Average Automatics
81 - Predicted Automatics
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72 - Average Play Offs
71 - Predicted Play Offs
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63 - Walsall(31)
62 -
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55 - AFC Wimbledon(30)
54 - Bradford(31)
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53 - Notts County(30)
52 - Port Vale(30), Doncaster(31)
51 -
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49 - Crewe Alex(32)
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48 - Salford(31), Grimsby(31)
47 -
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42 - Chesterfield(30)

Walsall get a massive come from behind win against Chesterfield to cap off a decent 4 point return from this week, which will help settle the nerves there I'm sure, especially as they saw 2 of their new signings score. Pushes their gap back up to 8 and they're likely only 3 wins off what would be needed to secure a play-off place.

Wimbledon move in behind them after 6 points from 2 home games. Need to find some away wins eventually, but they have the quality to secure one of those top 3 spots you feel. Bradford haul in 4 points, but they too need to improve their away form.

Just in behind them are Notts County, who slip into the play-offs after a disappointing defeat at Port Vale. Are injuries in attacking areas going to cripple their push for the top 3? The Vale had enough to get past the Magpies and move 2 points off the automatics. Donny lose back to back games at a very inopportune time, but have a kind run of fixtures in the coming weeks that they need to take advantage of. Crewe move back into the play-offs despite no win in 6, they desperately need bodies back otherwise the teams below them will knock them back out of the top 7.

Salford can't find any consistency, 1 win over a poor Tranmere side in their last 7 and some tough games coming up as well. Grimsby close the gap with an excellent win at Donny, 3 straight wins for them. Can they sneak that final spot? Chesterfield remain a baffling team, they can't string together 2 results right now and that'll cost them a promotion run as teams behind them are waiting to move into the top 10.

1st - Walsall, 63 points, GD 25: Morecambe(A), Cheltenham(A), Swindon(H), Carlisle(A), Grimsby(H)
2nd - AFC Wimbledon, 55 points, GD 23: Fleetwood(A), Colchester(A), Bromley(H), Morecambe(A), Notts County(H)
3rd - Bradford City, 54 points, GD 11: MK Dons(H), Bromley(A), Salford(A), Cheltenham(H), Gillingham(A)
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4th - Notts County, 53 points, GD 18: Colchester(H), Tranmere(H), Fleetwood(A), Barrow(H), AFC Wimbledon(A)
5th - Port Vale, 52 points, GD 7: Salford(H), Tranmere(A), Harrogate(H), Fleetwood(A), Colchester(A)
6th - Doncaster Rovers, 52 points, GD 6: Morecambe(A), Accrington(A), Newport(H), Bromley(A), Swindon(H)
7th - Crewe Alex, 48 points, GD 5: Barrow(H), Chesterfield(A), Fleetwood(H), Salford(A), Doncaster(H)
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8th - Salford City, 48 points, GD 8: Port Vale(A), Bradford(H), Swindon(A), Crewe(H), Chesterfield(H)
9th - Grimsby Town, 48 points, GD -3: Fleetwood(H), Cheltenham(A), Tranmere(H), Walsall(A), Notts County(H)
10th - Chesterfield, 42 points, GD 14: Swindon(A), Crewe(H), Colchester(A), Newport(H), Salford(A)

Forthcoming fixtures:

Tuesday 18th February
Fleetwood Town v AFC Wimbledon
Morecambe v Doncaster Rovers
Notts County v Colchester United

Saturday 22nd February
Crewe Alexandra v Barrow
Morecambe v Walsall
Accrington Stanley v Doncaster Rovers
Bradford City v Milton Keynes Dons
Colchester United v AFC Wimbledon
Grimsby Town v Fleetwood Town
Notts County v Tranmere Rovers
Port Vale v Salford City
Swindon Town v Chesterfield

Some interesting fixtures this week. Not many 6 pointers, but Morecambe, Fleetwood and Colchester all have a big say in how the table will look as they face 2 promotion chasers. You feel Notts County and Donny need at least 4 points from their 2 games, whilst a few others like Crewe, Walsall and Bradford need to take advantage of favourable opponents. I wonder how different the table will look a week from now?

 

[kieran_vale]

Salford next is undoubtedly a huge game for us if no other reason than hopefully putting daylight over one of the pack looking to the playoffs. Also every bit just as big and the ones that make me more wary are the Tranmere and Harrogate games after. I’ve seen occasionally some give Notts the FTB label (wrongly IMO) but it’s these games where on paper you think it should be three points that you need to make count not just the points but the GD too which we are trailing the top 4 by significantly.

 

[Optipez]

Personally I don’t like Donny’s ground one bit!

Soulless, and little or no decent pubs close by.

I much prefer Notts County’s ground for atmosphere and fantastic location in a great city.

Btw, I am pretty certain there are no traces of asbestos at BP. Some slow redevelopment over a move to some mecano box for me

Construction costs are now exorbitant. If you rebuild one stand at a time over ten years you must be looking at around £20 million with inflation to 2035 if not more, probably quite a bit more.
Public finances are a shambles so getting grants isn't easy and low interest loans from the council are a thing of the past.
Really not sure how you or any club move forward without stinking rich owners who can either loan or guarantee the loans needed. I think it's why so many clubs have out of town grounds, they sell prime city centre land and get cheaper edge of town land then build with the difference plus loans.
Most of the new grounds are okay, some good but unless you like a drive in kind of experience grounds in the heart of the town are better overall I think.
My least favourite that I've visited has to be Northampton's. The one that gets loads of stick but I think is okay is York's and probably the best marriage of pretty utilitarian ground but keeping a good location, Wimbledon.

 

[LS Bantam]

Was out yesterday but having watched the highlights the ‘what could’ve been’ is a real missed opportunity as a result of those multiple key decisions against us. Would expect the red card to be over turned easily enough given he’s 30 yards from goal and there’s a second defender level with play but between the ‘offside’ at Newport and ball that crossed the line Vs Salford that wasn’t given those 4 extra points we should’ve had would see us well positioned in second.

 

[Grimsby Road]

Yet, in the top 6 of L1 right now we have Wrexham, Stockport, Wycombe and Leyton Orient. Exeter, Lincoln and Mansfield all looking stable too. That's almost a third of the division with stadiums that present each club with some of the same problems you touch upon.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you or Grimsby Road are saying, however it's certainly not as final as you're suggesting. It is possible to grow without moving to a new build. Admittedly not as efficient or easy but certainly still possible.

It isn't just the capacity thing for me it's the disabled facilities and lack of 'proper view' seats - even for the away fans I mean probably 1/3 can't see all the pitch if it's a decent turnout and although people will pay £25 sheets to follow their team , if you went to the cinema and could only see half of the screen you would be asking for a refund wouldn't you .

Some cracking grounds at this level Bradford , Notts , Brunton Park etc that are older more established clubs and improved them along the way ; but the real eye openers for me this season were AFC Wimbledon and Bromley - The Wombles have managed to build a sensibly sized ground that still has some character and great views ; Bromley although effectively a 'non league ' ground the facilities and that bar in the home section are superb it just makes you think we are light years behind those sort of clubs and sort of makes you think how & why ? Probably best to ask dear John with his pipe dreams

 

[leedsvaliant]

At this point, it's virtually impossible to call. Each team in the top 8 could probably make a case for finishing in the top 3. Nobody seems in stinking form and there's 4 or 5 in excellent form.

I think Walsall did enough in the 1st half of the season to have one of the places sewn up. They only need to get the odd win here and there like yesterday and they're soon on 80+ points.

I think we'll get playoffs but I don't think we're quite as well rounded as other sides. We haven't really given anyone a pasting, even the shite teams and we dropped too many points against poor sides in our bad run that other sides around us won't. Our goal difference is small and might prove crucial.

It's the most positive I've seen Bradford fans for a long time, so they've really got a chance if they can keep key men fit. Notts look a strong outfit, but injuries to key men could disrupt them. Wimbledon looked very good at our place and are so strong at home...it's difficult to see past them for one of the spots. Donny looked better earlier in the season for me. I think they'll get a playoff spot but just not quite enough for automatic.

Crewe are hanging in there but as I thought earlier in the season, their squad depth isn't great. It might be a Grimsby to nip into the playoffs as they seem to be in some form.

I wouldn't even know where to start betting wise.

If I were to guess now, I'd say top 4 in no particular order would be Wimbledon, Notts, Walsall, Bradford.

 

[Optipez]

Still wide open but I'd go Walsall, Wimbledon for two and Bradford or Vale for the third spot.
Notts have a plenty good enough first eleven and bench when all fit to beat anyone but till not entirely convinced that Maynard will quite get us over the line.

 

[The_Viking_Magpie]

Still side open but I'd go Walsall, Wimbledon for two and Bradford or Vale for the third spot.
Notts have a plenty good enough first eleven and bench when all fit to beat anyone but till not entirely convinced that Maynard will quite get us over the line.

I'm surprised to be saying this at this stage of the season but I don't think Maynard will be the biggest factor whether we go up or not. I think it will be injuries more specifically the availability of our front two. Our main men up top for the run in.

Our record against top sides is poor so wouldn't fancy us in the playoffs but could sneak 2nd or 3rd with a a fair wind and some luck.

 

[Optipez]

I'm surprised to be saying this at this stage of the season but I don't think Maynard will be the biggest factor whether we go up or not. I think it will be injuries more specifically the availability of our front two. Our main men up top for the run in.

Our record against top sides is poor so wouldn't fancy us in the playoffs but could sneak 2nd or 3rd with a a fair wind and some luck.

Our new striker looks fit to play minutes and hopefully Whittaker will be over his stiffness and able to play some part on Tuesday.
Still a third of the season to go but it feels like the run in is starting.

 

[valefan16]

It’s so open and whenever anyone looks like they might pull away from the pack Walsall aside they’ve then gone and been dragged back in, Crewe a couple of weeks ago, then Doncaster and now Notts County, suggests plenty of twists and turns to come.

Grimsby is a funny one as they seem streaky, get a good run then go and lose a few drop out of it then come back again. Can they sustain this time? Chesterfield don’t look like they’ve quite got enough this season in terms of consistency so think the top 7 will be out the current top 9.

Couldn’t tell you which 7 though!

 

[leedsvaliant]

The Bradford and Wimbledon fans on here seem the most chipper and confident, which suggests to me that they feel pretty assured about finishing well. Wimbledon comfortably one of the strongest teams we have played this season.

 

[womble76]

The Bradford and Wimbledon fans on here seem the most chipper and confident, which suggests to me that they feel pretty assured about finishing well. Wimbledon comfortably one of the strongest teams we have played this season.

Big week for us ahead. I actually think we may finish 4th. Biggest plus is we don't let in many. Still to close to call, our last 10 are a terrible run in

 

[jacobncfc]

I'm surprised to be saying this at this stage of the season but I don't think Maynard will be the biggest factor whether we go up or not. I think it will be injuries more specifically the availability of our front two. Our main men up top for the run in.

Our record against top sides is poor so wouldn't fancy us in the playoffs but could sneak 2nd or 3rd with a a fair wind and some luck.

I know it’s a bit of a cliche with us, but just worked it out and the difference is ridiculous.

Going at 2.2 PPG against the sides below that current top nine that has pulled clear a bit, and exactly 1 PPG against the rest of the teams in it.

But our fixtures look okay. I can’t see us getting anything at Wimbledon, but otherwise we’ve got Walsall and Vale out the way, Bradford and Grimsby are teams we’ve done well against over the last couple of seasons, and Doncaster, Crewe and Salford still have to come to us. We really should do it from here.

 

[valefan16]

After Salford who themselves are in poor form currently we have a key run of games:

Tranmere A, Harrogate H, Fleetwood A, Colchester A, MK H, Morecambe H, Barrow H where we need to target a big points haul and not do the usual Vale of beating top sides then not be ruthless against the bottom ones.

After that is then a potentially pivotal week with Crewe A, Bradford H, Walsall A in the space of 7 days.

Bigger haul we get in the next 8 will decide what lee way we have with those three games.

 

[Grimsby Road]

I know it’s a bit of a cliche with us, but just worked it out and the difference is ridiculous.

Going at 2.2 PPG against the sides below that current top nine that has pulled clear a bit, and exactly 1 PPG against the rest of the teams in it.

But our fixtures look okay. I can’t see us getting anything at Wimbledon, but otherwise we’ve got Walsall and Vale out the way, Bradford and Grimsby are teams we’ve done well against over the last couple of seasons, and Doncaster, Crewe and Salford still have to come to us. We really should do it from here.

It will be interesting when we play you again in that re-arranged game how it goes now we are playing a bit more of a 'league 2' style and mixing it with bits of the football , how it goes + Crowley just seemed to dominate us - should be a really good game that just a shame it's a midweek and I can't go .

 

[Grimsby Road]

It’s not an easy one to answer and is something that crops up occasionally regards us. Both stadiums are older and as such there are certain maintenance costs that come with that which can become a millstone. If you can get it right with a new stadium it’s great. I always view Rotherham as the gold standard on that front. I do take the point on some of them being soulless though, one that comes to mind there is Shrewsbury which is out of town and was as generic a build as you could get.

I haven't been to Vale Park for a good 20 years has that changed much ?

 

[Son of Cod]

True to some extent but you you omitted mentioning that Wrexham are well into the process of adding 5000+ seats to their stadium, Stockport have grand plans underway to hugely increase their capacity. Wycombe don't need to expand due to fanbase and isn't an old stadium with many issues. Orient I've never been to and they are having a tremendous season. Lincoln are expanding their stadium, Mansfield are finally doing the same and completing their stadium. They are all modernising, expanding not patching up and shrinking.

Of course you can still grow at BP but you are doing it with one hand tied behind your back. It's like having having a boat with lots of holes in it, you can keep it a float but nobody looks forward to being in it.

How easy is it to develop and replace stands at BP to bring it into the 1990s?

Fair comments, I think we're mostly aligned to be honest. I think I'm just slightly more on the misty eyed nostalgia, anything-is-possible side of things when it comes to old grounds.

One thing I would pull you up on though is this comparison of the likes of Wrexham, Stockport, Lincoln, etc modernising whereas you've attributed the work we've done on BP as merely patching up. There has been patching up that needed doing after your mate Fenty left BP in such a state but we've added a fanzone, we've taken pillars out of the Main Stand to decrease the amount of restricted views and we've re-roofed the Pontoon. None of which are short term fixes that I'd class as patching up.

It isn't just the capacity thing for me it's the disabled facilities and lack of 'proper view' seats - even for the away fans I mean probably 1/3 can't see all the pitch if it's a decent turnout and although people will pay £25 sheets to follow their team , if you went to the cinema and could only see half of the screen you would be asking for a refund wouldn't you .

Some cracking grounds at this level Bradford , Notts , Brunton Park etc that are older more established clubs and improved them along the way ; but the real eye openers for me this season were AFC Wimbledon and Bromley - The Wombles have managed to build a sensibly sized ground that still has some character and great views ; Bromley although effectively a 'non league ' ground the facilities and that bar in the home section are superb it just makes you think we are light years behind those sort of clubs and sort of makes you think how & why ? Probably best to ask dear John with his pipe dreams

Yep Wimbledon is great. I'd definitely be happy with something like that.

Grimsby is a funny one as they seem streaky, get a good run then go and lose a few drop out of it then come back again. Can they sustain this time? Chesterfield don’t look like they’ve quite got enough this season in terms of consistency so think the top 7 will be out the current top 9.

I think we're also a funny one in that nobody expected us to be in the frame really, Town fans included. We're steadily improving though, both as a team and the players as individuals. Towards the start of the season we were scrapping for points and winning games without really controlling them but we're seeing more consistently good performances now. The three matches we've just won, we've completely deserved all nine points for example. Team spirit seems excellent as well. I'm cautiously optimistic but it feels like things are clicking at a good time for us. Whether or not we dip again or even several times, I'm not sure. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we made it to the playoffs or if we missed out.

 

[DearneValleyRover]

Personally I don’t like Donny’s ground one bit!

Soulless, and little or no decent pubs close by.

I much prefer Notts County’s ground for atmosphere and fantastic location in a great city.

Btw, I am pretty certain there are no traces of asbestos at BP. Some slow redevelopment over a move to some mecano box for me

We didn’t have a choice, Belle Vue couldn’t be redeveloped due to subsidence and the cost to rectify was astronomical, the Police wouldn’t sanction a ground in the Town itself so the only option available that fell within the FA grant, owners contribution and council contribution was where it is. The original design was better but unfortunately the price is steel went up between the design and the build process so we ended up with what we have.

 

[Limerick Mariner]

We didn’t have a choice, Belle Vue couldn’t be redeveloped due to subsidence and the cost to rectify was astronomical, the Police wouldn’t sanction a ground in the Town itself so the only option available that fell within the FA grant, owners contribution and council contribution was where it is. The original design was better but unfortunately the price is steel went up between the design and the build process so we ended up with what we have.

And the revenue generation from the away end and non-match day must be pretty good.

 

[loz]

Was out yesterday but having watched the highlights the ‘what could’ve been’ is a real missed opportunity as a result of those multiple key decisions against us. Would expect the red card to be over turned easily enough given he’s 30 yards from goal and there’s a second defender level with play but between the ‘offside’ at Newport and ball that crossed the line Vs Salford that wasn’t given those 4 extra points we should’ve had would see us well positioned in second.

What you say is right but with every team we will have games where decisions go for or agin us. They usually even up over the season. Enjoying our run but we have a tough run in, in April. Having said that, we need to make it just as tough for other teams.

 

[saddler78]

We probably need another 6 wins and a few draws to go up automatically I don't care about winning it just want something to celebrate its been 18 years since we got promoted ffs lol

 

[Son of Cod]

We probably need another 6 wins and a few draws to go up automatically I don't care about winning it just want something to celebrate its been 18 years since we got promoted ffs lol

Woah that's mad. I remember you going up in 06/07 but I thought you'd dropped back down again at least once and gone back up to L1. Didn't realise how long a stint you did in L1 from 07/08 onwards. We think we've had a shite time because we've not been higher than L2 since 03/04 but I guess the flipside of being crap enough to get relegated from the EFL twice means we at least got to have a few promotions back. I guess also promotion (or rather the outcome of promotion) back to the third tier probably isn't as exciting for you as it is for the likes of us, Wrexham, Mansfield, Stockport, etc. who haven't been there for ages.

 

[valefan16]

I haven't been to Vale Park for a good 20 years has that changed much ?

Away end is the opposite side but it hasn't changed massively, the Lorne Street is now externally complete as we wanted it done for the Robbie Williams Concert in 2022 but doesn't have a concourse on the side thats been 28 years in the making so cant be used for football at present and the boxes/suites are done, aside from that and the huge club shop building it hasn't changed massively structurally.

 

[DearneValleyRover]

And the revenue generation from the away end and non-match day must be pretty good.

If it’s a good away following yes, it gets used for concerts and international matches plus the Rugby League Challenge Cup Semi finals so all helps but at the end of the day it’s council owned.

 

[Limerick Mariner]

If it’s a good away following yes, it gets used for concerts and international matches plus the Rugby League Challenge Cup Semi finals so all helps but at the end of the day it’s council owned.

Do DRFC get all or a cut of match day Food and Beverage revenue?

 

[DearneValleyRover]

Do DRFC get all or a cut of match day Food and Beverage revenue?

All, we basically have the lease and operate the stadium now, when it first opened the council ran it but they were hopeless so now the club does.