2024/25 League Two Relegation Thread

[spireite]

Fair points although up here with the howling winds and overcast skies add an extra layer of depression when you lose 1 nil at home to the likes of Guiseley.

There is a bit more football played and that's a thing come in recently, I only noticed last year at the start of our second sentence that even the traditional cloggers were playing it about more.

Was talking about this with I think the Oldham fans on the other forum, what is lacking down there is as you say no away fans and we feel that more than most due to location, but it's the real lack of atmosphere and intensity to any of the games unless you're playing another BELT. That's what I miss.

You're right there. We possibly felt it a bit less as we are pretty central and easy off the motorway, but it still wasn't great. It's probably my memories of last season, and the ones before to a lesser extent, colouring my view a bit. It's a fun league when you're winning and your crowds are up and everyone's happy and expecting results even if you're 0-1 down with 10 to play.. But really not much fun if you're scrapping for wins. I do think the NL can be a real reset switch for teams though. Like an alcoholic who wakes up hanging out of his arse covered in his own sick with 10 hour old kebab stuck to the side of his face. It's that rock bottom that forces genuine change and rebuild from the top down.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

To be fair the conference national and conference north is frankly just division 3/4 from the 90’s it’s quite sad how much decline there has been to northern based clubs in that time.

We lost a lot of solid FL northern clubs who would take 500-1000 away fans and the northern clubs which replaced them bring very little in comparison and I think that has dented some clubs financially in the north you can probably only rely on Bradford for great numbers maybe Carlisle vale Grimsby Tranmere and donny for good numbers

In past you’d also have darlo hartlepool Rochdale oldham Scunny York Chester would all bring decent numbers to Carlisle

If the league also then loses Carlisle and tranmere and gained say FGR it’s more financial losses for the northern clubs left here

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Despite them impressing a few in our fanbase, and I'm not sure why given we were absolutely diabolical in both games against them and that was the bigger issue rather than them playing well, I genuinely think Carlisle are doomed in all honesty. All well and good passing pretty in between both boxes but little end product, a soft underbelly, a questionable manager and that abysmal defence is probably going to sink them. They'll roll the dice at survival but I'm getting huge Tranmere, FGR and Chesterfield back to back relegation vibes from them. A big squad and mass influx of players coming in to save your season often causes squad disharmony and when these players don't perform, the fan unrest heightens.

The other side going down is too tough to call. Swindon and Accrington have rallied a bit but there's still lots of football to be played. Morecambe have Del Boy as manager but that squad is just so piss weak that he'll have performed a minor miracle in keeping it up. Barrow and Newport are falling like a stone but I expect Clemence and Jardim to be fired at some point between now and March. You then have Harrogate who have stopped the rot but their squad is also weak and they're probably the worst side we've played this season. You also know that father will not sack son no matter how bad it gets. Lastly, what a mess Tranmere are. Adkins has form for fighting a fire well and getting results but give him a full season and it goes to shit very, very quickly. Just looks an exceedingly poor squad with no nous of how to score goals.

 

[ASpireite]

You're right there. We possibly felt it a bit less as we are pretty central and easy off the motorway, but it still wasn't great. It's probably my memories of last season, and the ones before to a lesser extent, colouring my view a bit. It's a fun league when you're winning and your crowds are up and everyone's happy and expecting results even if you're 0-1 down with 10 to play.. But really not much fun if you're scrapping for wins. I do think the NL can be a real reset switch for teams though. Like an alcoholic who wakes up hanging out of his arse covered in his own sick with 10 hour old kebab stuck to the side of his face. It's that rock bottom that forces genuine change and rebuild from the top down.

I think last season definitely adds some shine to our experience in the NL. Before the takeover it was truly grim, a bit of optimism pre-season each time which quickly vanished as the seasoned pros we signed retired by November and we were getting beaten by Maidenhead and Solihull.

I'll never forget how toxic the atmosphere was at that boxing day game when we got a pasting from Solihull and a few invaded the pitch.

 

[GEORGE]

I really don't think Carlisle will go down. Nor do I think Swindon will either. Think it will be 2 of the smaller clubs .January will have a huge bearing on this.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

On paper Carlisle have for me not done too bad signing wise so far, attack based midfielders and now a forward for in the box.

But………….and this is the big enormous bit to it all, the defence is so atrocious it’s totally and utterly irrelevant what we have going forward we could have e the best attack set up in this league but it won’t matter if we are still constantly giving the ball away on the edge of our box for nearly the entire match and thus none of these new players touch the ball.

Williamson either needs to A: splash serious cash on 3 new centre backs or B: go hybrid on his system.

I’ve seen teams able to play direct in their own half THEN pass like mad in the opposing half

 

[Optipez]

We've been circling the drain ever since we came up from the NL. This year, next year sometime soon. Every year we stay up is a victory.

At some point I think it's inevitable that you, Morecambe, Accrington, Bromley and Barrow go back down. Bromley is actually pretty big, 330,000 according to the census, same with Salford but don't have following to match. Yeovil and FGR both had very successful stints and may come back up as may Barnet and D&R but it requires a lot of continual funding to stay in the league with low crowds.
Nothing wrong with yo-yoing, better a promotion now and again than relegation battles every year. Down here we pretty much all yo-yo, just that for the bigger clubs you expect to bounce around the lower leagues rather than being utterly abysmal and dropping out the league.
Even so, Luton, Oldham, Chesterfield, Grimsby, Notts, Stockport, Tranmere, Hartlepool, Exeter, Bristol Rovers, Orient and Carlisle have all been shambolic enough to go there and deserved to.

To be fair the conference national and conference north is frankly just division 3/4 from the 90’s it’s quite sad how much decline there has been to northern based clubs in that time.

We lost a lot of solid FL northern clubs who would take 500-1000 away fans and the northern clubs which replaced them bring very little in comparison and I think that has dented some clubs financially in the north you can probably only rely on Bradford for great numbers maybe Carlisle vale Grimsby Tranmere and donny for good numbers

In past you’d also have darlo hartlepool Rochdale oldham Scunny York Chester would all bring decent numbers to Carlisle

If the league also then loses Carlisle and tranmere and gained say FGR it’s more financial losses for the northern clubs left here

Without wanting to go political, the North has just got poorer and players can earn more at Crawley, Stevenage, FGR and Barnet than Darlo, Chester and Rochdale. Southport and Workington don't look like ever coming back to the league.
I think it's a shame, I'd rather to to Darlington than Stevenage but you can't really argue against the pyramid system.

 

[OneDecentLester]

The NL is an absolutely fucking shite league to be in and I won’t have anyone say it isn’t. The ONLY reason it felt decent over the last couple of years for us, was because there were a fair amount of proper clubs in there at the same time who had managed to get their shit together which made it really competitive, and the BT/TNT coverage was great tbf, but now even that’s gone.

But I still remember those initial dark few years well when we first arrived down there. Dwindling crowds, JAKO tracksuits, non existent away followings because your playing teams literally no one cares about, those same teams no one cares about pumping you for 4/5 on your own patch, even worse refs than what we have here and we know how bad they are, and then the worst part about it all…. ONE automatic promotion place, and a SIX team play offs for the final spot.

Any team at risk of NL this year should be doing everything in their power to avoid going there, because there is no guarantee you will be back any time soon (if ever!!)

 

[Kauto Star]

To be fair the conference national and conference north is frankly just division 3/4 from the 90’s it’s quite sad how much decline there has been to northern based clubs in that time.

We lost a lot of solid FL northern clubs who would take 500-1000 away fans and the northern clubs which replaced them bring very little in comparison and I think that has dented some clubs financially in the north you can probably only rely on Bradford for great numbers maybe Carlisle vale Grimsby Tranmere and donny for good numbers

In past you’d also have darlo hartlepool Rochdale oldham Scunny York Chester would all bring decent numbers to Carlisle

If the league also then loses Carlisle and tranmere and gained say FGR it’s more financial losses for the northern clubs left here

I miss those clubs you mention that have drifted out of the football league. Hopefully York City will be back next season along with perhaps Oldham.

You missed our near neighbours Halifax off your list too

 

[クレイグ]

I miss those clubs you mention that have drifted out of the football league. Hopefully York City will be back next season along with perhaps Oldham.

You missed our near neighbours Halifax off your list too

Sometimes, when I'm laying in bed, all snug and with the electric blanket on, I think to myself "Man, I wish I was freezing my bollocks off in Oldham."

Good luck to York. Be nice to see them at VP if we don't get promoted.

 

[spireite]

Sometimes, when I'm laying in bed, all snug and with the electric blanket on, I think to myself "Man, I wish I was freezing my bollocks off in Oldham."

Good luck to York. Be nice to see them at VP if we don't get promoted.

It's not worrit was that away day.

 

[Soup Ladle]

I miss those clubs you mention that have drifted out of the football league. Hopefully York City will be back next season along with perhaps Oldham.

You missed our near neighbours Halifax off your list too

FC Halifax are not an ex league club, thought everyone was clear on that?

 

[saddler78]

I'd like to see Carlisle stay up decent club with decent fans in my experience going down is a bit of an unknown there's no guarantee you'll bounce back quickly.
We were in the shit a few years ago when Matt Taylor was manager some or our fans actually thought it might be good to go down and reset a bit I didn't I'd rather not chance it at all in the first place. it took Stockport Chesterfield and Wrexham some time to get back up don't forget.

 

[Soup Ladle]

The NL is an absolutely fucking shite league to be in and I won’t have anyone say it isn’t. The ONLY reason it felt decent over the last couple of years for us, was because there were a fair amount of proper clubs in there at the same time who had managed to get their shit together which made it really competitive, and the BT/TNT coverage was great tbf, but now even that’s gone.

But I still remember those initial dark few years well when we first arrived down there. Dwindling crowds, JAKO tracksuits, non existent away followings because your playing teams literally no one cares about, those same teams no one cares about pumping you for 4/5 on your own patch, even worse refs than what we have here and we know how bad they are, and then the worst part about it all…. ONE automatic promotion place, and a SIX team play offs for the final spot.

Any team at risk of NL this year should be doing everything in their power to avoid going there, because there is no guarantee you will be back any time soon (if ever!!)

Yeah DAZN is wank although the streaming quality is alright. You can't watch the 3pm kick offs any more which is total bollocks, yes you could just go to games but not many earn enough to go round the country watching shite football in front of 1000 fans.

Should be 3 up, 3 down really. You'd probably bet the three who go up would at least stay up if not do much better than that.

 

[Soup Ladle]

At some point I think it's inevitable that you, Morecambe, Accrington, Bromley and Barrow go back down. Bromley is actually pretty big, 330,000 according to the census, same with Salford but don't have following to match. Yeovil and FGR both had very successful stints and may come back up as may Barnet and D&R but it requires a lot of continual funding to stay in the league with low crowds.
Nothing wrong with yo-yoing, better a promotion now and again than relegation battles every year. Down here we pretty much all yo-yo, just that for the bigger clubs you expect to bounce around the lower leagues rather than being utterly abysmal and dropping out the league.
Even so, Luton, Oldham, Chesterfield, Grimsby, Notts, Stockport, Tranmere, Hartlepool, Exeter, Bristol Rovers, Orient and Carlisle have all been shambolic enough to go there and deserved to.

Without wanting to go political, the North has just got poorer and players can earn more at Crawley, Stevenage, FGR and Barnet than Darlo, Chester and Rochdale. Southport and Workington don't look like ever coming back to the league.
I think it's a shame, I'd rather to to Darlington than Stevenage but you can't really argue against the pyramid system.

Agree with much of that but not sure on Bromley, as you say, big catchment area, their crowds aren't that bad. If Stevenage can sadly establish themselves as a football league club (although they'd never be in my eyes, can't stand them) then so can Bromley. Fact they're in London helps a lot. Southern teams have lots of advantages.

 

[GEORGE]

I miss those clubs you mention that have drifted out of the football league. Hopefully York City will be back next season along with perhaps Oldham.

You missed our near neighbours Halifax off your list too

And Bradford PA

 

[spireite]

Yeah DAZN is wank although the streaming quality is alright. You can't watch the 3pm kick offs any more which is total bollocks, yes you could just go to games but not many earn enough to go round the country watching shite football in front of 1000 fans.

Should be 3 up, 3 down really. You'd probably bet the three who go up would at least stay up if not do much better than that.

I'm not sure what it'll take to bring the 3 up 3 down in, or at least force a serious conversation. The footballing world seems in unanimous agreement that it needs to happen and there's still been no further movement on it.

 

[Coalite]

I'm not sure what it'll take to bring the 3 up 3 down in, or at least force a serious conversation. The footballing world seems in unanimous agreement that it needs to happen and there's still been no further movement on it.

Everyone except the FL clubs I imagine. Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas.

 

[Coalite]

The NL is an absolutely fucking shite league to be in and I won’t have anyone say it isn’t. The ONLY reason it felt decent over the last couple of years for us, was because there were a fair amount of proper clubs in there at the same time who had managed to get their shit together which made it really competitive, and the BT/TNT coverage was great tbf, but now even that’s gone.

But I still remember those initial dark few years well when we first arrived down there. Dwindling crowds, JAKO tracksuits, non existent away followings because your playing teams literally no one cares about, those same teams no one cares about pumping you for 4/5 on your own patch, even worse refs than what we have here and we know how bad they are, and then the worst part about it all…. ONE automatic promotion place, and a SIX team play offs for the final spot.

Any team at risk of NL this year should be doing everything in their power to avoid going there, because there is no guarantee you will be back any time soon (if ever!!)

This. One of the few silver linings for me though was going to different grounds. Absolutely no chance I’d have gone to Oxford City, Chorley or Borehamwood otherwise.

 

[Stocky]

I'm not sure what it'll take to bring the 3 up 3 down in, or at least force a serious conversation. The footballing world seems in unanimous agreement that it needs to happen and there's still been no further movement on it.

It should definitley happen but it won't now.

The argument was at a peak when Wrexham missed out by coming second in the year we won it and then ramped up significantly when Wrexham and Notts both got so many points and with the fanfare around Wrexham, the issue was topical and in the public eye.

The National League isn't as strong now in terms of clubs with media exposure, they've fucked up with that stupid National League cup that has demeaned the league and BT coverage that was good for the league has gone.

It should be 3 up, 3 down. It would spice up the bottom of this league a bit more and it wouldn't seem such a fatal drop for those that go down. But I can't see it now, there's not enough clout behind it and the Football League clubs will block it.

 

[GTFCfish]

and then the worst part about it all…. ONE automatic promotion place, and a SIX team play offs for the final spot.

I quite like that play off format to be fair………

 

[spireite]

It should definitley happen but it won't now.

The argument was at a peak when Wrexham missed out by coming second in the year we won it and then ramped up significantly when Wrexham and Notts both got so many points and with the fanfare around Wrexham, the issue was topical and in the public eye.

The National League isn't as strong now in terms of clubs with media exposure, they've fucked up with that stupid National League cup that has demeaned the league and BT coverage that was good for the league has gone.

It should be 3 up, 3 down. It would spice up the bottom of this league a bit more and it wouldn't seem such a fatal drop for those that go down. But I can't see it now, there's not enough clout behind it and the Football League clubs will block it.

I think you're spot on on all counts there. Especially that fucking National League Cup, what a desperate and bone headed idea that was.

 

[Kauto Star]

And Bradford PA

They will never get anywhere near back to the football league.

They have a few hundred fans left in the City, however, as you can imagine, youngsters in the City for decades have either gone down the route of following Bradford City or tv fans of Man Utd or Liverpool with quite a few that step over to the dark side and support Leeds

 

[Cloudy]

Agree with much of that but not sure on Bromley, as you say, big catchment area, their crowds aren't that bad. If Stevenage can sadly establish themselves as a football league club (although they'd never be in my eyes, can't stand them) then so can Bromley. Fact they're in London helps a lot. Southern teams have lots of advantages.

I think Bromley have some potential to establish themselves, far more than if Borehamwood, Braintree or a Wealdstone made the EFL. They are growing their fan base, their new pitch is excellent ( paid for by the owner of London City Lionesses who also play there) and they have a big catchment area. If you can’t afford Crystal Palace then this is a decent alternative

 

[Cloudy]

This. One of the few silver linings for me though was going to different grounds. Absolutely no chance I’d have gone to Oxford City, Chorley or Borehamwood otherwise.

Grimsby going to Borehamwood really brought it home to me as to how far we had fallen. I had actually played a competitive fixture against them!!
Going to Histon, Hayes and Yeading, etc was great and soul destroying in equal measures

 

[Si Robin]

I honestly think it should go back to 1 up/1 down.

I understand why clubs want 3 up/3 down, but if you hate the likes of Salford, Harrogate, FGR and other clubs without a League history (I'll even include Cheltenham even though we've been here for 25 years now, minus 1) then imagine how many doped clubs will be coming up if 3 can go up. Your Fyldes for example. 1 up/1 down meant Rushden had to wait a few more years than they wanted because teams like Cheltenham and Kidderminster stopped them. There were the only big financially doped club at the time - now they're ten a penny.

If 3 go down, then more of your traditional league clubs go down and fewer come up to be replaced by, as OneDecentLester calls them, team literally no-one cares about.

 

[valefan16]

I'd said previously and still think a decent idea to turn the National League into EFL League 3 with it all being full time and bringing those clubs into the EFL rules and Regs. 3 Up, 3 Down, normal play offs. The Pyramid is strong enough now with the full time clubs to have 96 EFL clubs.

 

[Luke Imp]

I'd said previously and still think a decent idea to turn the National League into EFL League 3 with it all being full time and bringing those clubs into the EFL rules and Regs. 3 Up, 3 Down, normal play offs. The Pyramid is strong enough now with the full time clubs to have 96 EFL clubs.

Is it strong enough, though? I don't think it's too often that there's been a bottle neck down there.

I think it'd be too expensive for most clubs because there's a lot of work that needs doing around media areas, camera gantries, stadium, changing room size, parking etc to bring grounds to EFL standards. And that's before all the extra FT staff positions that you need as well. It's not going to be financially viable for many.

 

[Boz]

I'd said previously and still think a decent idea to turn the National League into EFL League 3 with it all being full time and bringing those clubs into the EFL rules and Regs. 3 Up, 3 Down, normal play offs. The Pyramid is strong enough now with the full time clubs to have 96 EFL clubs.

I actually think the NL play-off system is better than the FL one, attaching more benefit to the sides finishing further up the table.

 

[AlanPep]

Interesting debate to which there is only one logical answer, 2 automatically up from National League and 2 automatically down from EFL Div 2 PLUS a playoff between 3rd in NL and 3rd from bottom in EFL 2 to decide final promotion / relegation place. Your so called ‘bigger / established’ clubs have a fair chance of bouncing back up to the EFL and NL clubs have a fairer chance of reaching the EFL. Yes there will be yo-yo-ing but every club, every season, starts in the League they deserve to be in based on their football and ownership. If you’re good enough for the EFL you’ll be in it, if you’re not, you won’t