22/23 Finances

[Greenacres]

Surely that all depends on what is written in his will. If he wishes to he could easily protect FGR for a long time after he takes his last breath. He's sure got the net worth to, it's just whether he wants to.

Fair point, that is something none of us have any idea of...he is reputed to be worth over £100m, if the Times rich list is to be believed, guess it depends how high up his priorities the club is.

 

[Gladders]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1767805303687393314

 

[Gladders]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1769002803039555658

 

[Laker]

Wrexham: https://www.wrexhamafc.co.uk/news/2...port--financial-statements---ye-june-30-2023/

 

[Conker]

Nearly 7m on staff is fucking mental

 

[womble76]

Wrexham: https://www.wrexhamafc.co.uk/news/2...port--financial-statements---ye-june-30-2023/

So 9 million of debt to RR who get the welcome to wrexham.money then loans it to wrexham as debt.. won the national league with a 7.million wage bill the same as Plymouth had to win league 1. The wage bill and debt will be even higher this year.. let's hope he never loses interest or asks for his money back.

 

[womble76]

Let's hope they never call the loans in.

 

[spireite]

So 9 million of debt to RR who get the welcome to wrexham.money then loans it to wrexham as debt.. won the national league with a 7.million wage bill the same as Plymouth had to win league 1. The wage bill and debt will be even higher this year.. let's hope he never loses interest or asks for his money back.

That seems a bit.. Naughty? It feels a bit harsh on Wrexham that the income for that didn't go straight to them, rather than arriving as debt. They're the focus of the whole show after all. I get that RR has to look after his interests, and the money he makes from business shows he's good at it, but still. You'd hope the terms of the loan are generous.
Eye watering wage bill. I'm sure that's jumped significantly since last year.

 

[chief]

Nearly 7m on staff is fucking mental

Is it? We all know Mullin was on £2m a year.

 

[Master D]

There's no proof that they do that though with the documentary. Mind-boggling numbers all round but was always going to be the case to get the thing going at pace. They were never going to build sustainably piece by piece and they will have known that.

This year the turnover is estimated at £20m, hopefully more income in that as a percentage next time, with the United Airlines sponsorship, US tour and the fact of just being back in the League.

The wages are the biggest one for me, astronomical doesn't even cover it.

 

[Pilot_Phonic]

Think the numbers are a little eye watering, but they want to get higher no matter the cost, to reap more money the higher up the pyramid we go, in as little time as possible. Bear in mind that this is until June 23, where we hadn't been to the states and the contract for the new United Airlines sponsorship wouldn't be taken into account either, plus all the other sponsors that have paid into the club.

Give it a couple of years and we'd have a very healthy bank balance, without too much worry for the immediate future.

 

[EnglishRed]

Let's hope they never call the loans in.

Yeah they probably will soon.

For some perspective on what are fairly eye watering figures at first look, this revenue for this year is likely to be about twice the 10mil of last year. The 7m staff costs isn't just playing staff, and we've spent a lot on backroom staff (especially medical). It's clearly very high spending but about what was expected really.

Other spending is likely to continue to be very high for the next few years once the capital projects ( Kop, training ground) really start in earnest.

 

[1862]

Ah good, I was worried for a while after our accounts came out I was wrong to say Wrexham operated in an entirely different world to Notts last season.

Ludicrous amounts all round but to be fair I think it's still less than we lost getting promoted from L2 in 2010 which was around £7m.

 

[EnglishRed]

Ah good, I was worried for a while after our accounts came out I was wrong to say Wrexham operated in an entirely different world to Notts last season.

Ludicrous amounts all round but to be fair I think it's still less than we lost getting promoted from L2 in 2010 which was around £7m.

Yeah I reckon our wage bill for playing staff last season was several million more than yourselves and Chesterfield. Although I do think we've created a bit of a rod for our own backs with all the publicity and have to pay players more than other clubs. That said our massive wages allows us to have depth with better quality than our competitors. Last season your first XI was just as good as ours for the most part, but the players you could bring in weren't as good if your first choices got injured.

It's been interesting to see people's comments on the figures when people like Kieran Macguire has tweeted them. Obviously ludicrulous figures for the NL but whereas there are tons of comments of people predicting our imminent demise when the owners 'get bored' you don't see people comment the same for L1 and Championship clubs who are wracking up often much larger debts, without the predicted increase in revenue.

 

[EnglishRed]

Also worth noting that we will have to pay £700k in bonuses if we get promoted to L1

 

[Gladders]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773393790880887210

 

[mightyshrimp]

Morecambe have had a transfer embargo put on them today after an unpaid tax bill ,apparently this happened Wednesday week and the fans have just heard about it today,I seriously believe that our owners really want to damage us as much as they can ,not looking good at present

 

[EnglishRed]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773393790880887210

That Merch stat is mad. Crazy yanks buying half and half scarfs

 

[jacobncfc]

There's no proof that they do that though with the documentary. Mind-boggling numbers all round but was always going to be the case to get the thing going at pace. They were never going to build sustainably piece by piece and they will have known that.

This year the turnover is estimated at £20m, hopefully more income in that as a percentage next time, with the United Airlines sponsorship, US tour and the fact of just being back in the League.

The wages are the biggest one for me, astronomical doesn't even cover it.

There's not building sustainably and then there's just setting cash on fire, though. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight it might not have turned out like this because we just happened to throw in one of the best seasons in English football history at the same time, but you could more than halve that wage bill at least and still build a team that should win the conference with its eyes shut.

The 'it'll go pop soon' stuff is clearly nonsense, but I definitely think there's an argument that they're being quite badly run by the people on the football side (not the owners, who knew nothing about it and had to trust someone) and should've been able to achieve what they have while saving themselves a lot of money and possibly having a team that looks more set up to achieve stuff at the next level up.

 

[masi51]

Just had ours published for 22/23 5.7m loss despite our turnover rising 40%......Awful figures on paper most offset by FV [owners] Diluting their shares to a Swiss consortium

 

[masi51]

This wont end well for Wrexham. It is a Carbon Copy on Boltons Financial Business plan a Decade back.
I did not understand it back then and i dont understand it now. How can a owner loan a club he owns money .
Somebody please explain.....

 

[Tinpot and proud]

Yeah they probably will soon.

For some perspective on what are fairly eye watering figures at first look, this revenue for this year is likely to be about twice the 10mil of last year. The 7m staff costs isn't just playing staff, and we've spent a lot on backroom staff (especially medical). It's clearly very high spending but about what was expected really.

Other spending is likely to continue to be very high for the next few years once the capital projects ( Kop, training ground) really start in earnest.

It’s like the (Rich) ugly fat old fecker you see always with the fit young girlfriend.....its not love she has for the old man......I guess I’m kinda saying or asking more to the point.....are Wrexham the ugly fat old fecker in the RR relationship ?

 

[EnglishRed]

With respect its nothing like examples cited. We were turning over 10m in the Conference. We've now got a better sponsorship deal, higher average attendance, solidarity payments, TV payments etc etc not to mention the fact that the emmy winning documentary has been out since that season which has increased our global audience. Notts (for example) had losses of 3m in the same season with less prospect of a significantly higher income so I don't see why we are suddenly So vulnerable compared to other clubs.

 

[THE LAST WALTZ]

If I were a Wrexham fan I wouldn’t be too worried about these figures.
The loans to RR are just ‘soft loans’ and it would not be in his interest to call them in and jeopardise the club as he will know that any potential recouping of this money will come from any future sale of the club. Why damage the asset he owns?
The income streams are way beyond anything that other league 2 clubs could generate. They are, of course, pretty dependent on Reynolds being there though.
RR could put the fans minds at rest though by converting the debt into equity if they really wanted to.

 

[1862]

With respect its nothing like examples cited. We were turning over 10m in the Conference. We've now got a better sponsorship deal, higher average attendance, solidarity payments, TV payments etc etc not to mention the fact that the emmy winning documentary has been out since that season which has increased our global audience. Notts (for example) had losses of 3m in the same season with less prospect of a significantly higher income so I don't see why we are suddenly So vulnerable compared to other clubs.

The difference would presumably be the stability of income streams. I don't think yours are going away any time soon but Notts' (and other clubs') incomes are fairly easy to predict, whereas projecting what yours will be in two years is probably quite difficult. Any average fan is going to look at that, expect you will just spend more having gone up, and see it as risky. Probably the same that don't bat an eyelid at these Forest numbers, mind.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773605872532394034

 

[masi51]

With respect its nothing like examples cited. We were turning over 10m in the Conference. We've now got a better sponsorship deal, higher average attendance, solidarity payments, TV payments etc etc not to mention the fact that the emmy winning documentary has been out since that season which has increased our global audience. Notts (for example) had losses of 3m in the same season with less prospect of a significantly higher income so I don't see why we are suddenly So vulnerable compared to other clubs.

Have a look at Bolton, Derby, Wigan and Reading...............They had way, way more incomings than you
The problem will be when you get higher in the pyramid
Next season double your outgoings, then if you get into the championship you can talk 5 fold your out goings.......Where will that extra money come from????

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid will have to dig deep and saddle the club with debt.
That is all good until they get bored and ride off to the sunset.

 

[Gladders]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773629863036850369

 

[Gladders]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773453941507850595

 

[Gladders]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773439540637671616

 

[EnglishRed]

Have a look at Bolton, Derby, Wigan and Reading...............They had way, way more incomings than you
The problem will be when you get higher in the pyramid
Next season double your outgoings, then if you get into the championship you can talk 5 fold your out goings.......Where will that extra money come from????

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid will have to dig deep and saddle the club with debt.
That is all good until they get bored and ride off to the sunset.

Bolton, Derby, Wigan and Reading weren't in the Conference, so what the fuck are you on about?

We aren't just propped up by pumping money in from personal wealth, the club is generating a through its media exposure and media assault on the US. Initial sums of money are required for infrastructure (in particular) as we transition from a club who has had 15 years (arguably more) of under investment. As each year goes by our ability to generate more money ourselves increases. How long that continues is a bit of an unknown but for now we are not in the perilous state people seem to think we are.

When we are in the Championship we will worry about where the funding levels will come from,. but for now we aren't there.