Arsenal fans start petition against Mike Dean

[thespus]

Should we punish players for own goals as well? Strikers missing a clear cut chance?

Erm, when Giroud misses clear cut chances, Walcott replaces him in the team (only to miss some himself ). Szczesny lost his place after mistakes against Southampton. Mignolet was dropped for Brad Jones last season. Poor performances are typically punished as such - see Mourinho dropping Terry, Ivanovic, Matic, and Costa in the CL to warn them he expected better.

Accountability is a good thing.

 

[Bilo]

Erm, when Giroud misses clear cut chances, Walcott replaces him in the team. Szczesny lost his place after mistakes against Southampton. Mignolet was dropped for Brad Jones last season. Poor performances are typically punished as such - see Mourinho dropping Terry, Ivanovic, Matic, and Costa in the CL to warn them he expected better.

And how do you think we choose our premier league refs, by lottery? It works in a very similar way, albeit slightly less knee jerk.

 

[thespus]

And how do you think we choose our premier league refs, by lottery? It works in a very similar way, albeit slightly less knee jerk.

I believe incompetent performances should be punished with a fine/suspension to avoid complacency. I haven't said anything about a conspiracy against Arsenal or officials chosen by lottery, yet you follow refuted insinuations with more insinuations.

 

[Bilo]

I believe incompetent performances should be punished with a fine/suspension to avoid complacency. I haven't said anything about a conspiracy against Arsenal or officials chosen by lottery, yet you follow refuted insinuations with more insinuations.

Ok, so there we are. Do you think players should be fined/suspended for missing a scoring chance as well? As I've pointed out, being dropped is already in place for referees.

Edit: Actually I'm gonna back down here I think, if players were banned for mistakes Lovren would be serving 25 to life now which would improve us infinitely.

 

[Bilo]

As for your whinge about insinuations, they're perfectly fair and they're questions not at all uncalled for. I'm drawing parallells trying to make you realize yourself how odd your stance is, in my opinion. If you take offense, I'll try something else, such as this:

Fining and suspending (not dropping, suspending) referees for honest mistakes is absolutely ridiculous, period. It's motivation by fear, which is both known and proved to be very destructive and directly dangerous for the workers, in this case referees. It would be extremely disrespectful to them and take away their job security completely. They're in a job where they are bound to make mistakes and maybe we should start respecting them rather than antagonizing them, suggesting things like fines and suspensions for mistakes that are impossible to avoid in the long run.

 

[thespus]

As for your whinge about insinuations, they're perfectly fair and they're questions not at all uncalled for. I'm drawing parallells trying to make you realize yourself how odd your stance is, in my opinion. If you take offense, I'll try something else, such as this:

Fining and suspending (not dropping, suspending) referees for honest mistakes is absolutely ridiculous, period. It's motivation by fear, which is both known and proved to be very destructive and directly dangerous for the workers, in this case referees. It would be extremely disrespectful to them and take away their job security completely. They're in a job where they are bound to make mistakes and maybe we should start respecting them rather than antagonizing them, suggesting things like fines and suspensions for mistakes that are impossible to avoid in the long run.

This would have been a much better response to my initial post than:

So what do you reckon Spus, it wasn't an honest mistake at all? He deliberately makes himself a worse ref to fuck with Arsenal, jeopardizing his own career in the long run?

Makes sense.

Which you never bothered to backup, yet still claim was a fair insinuation.

I don't believe we should be worried about job security for incompetent performers - particularly in an elite setting. I think suspending/dropping Dean from one matchweek is completely fair. As I mentioned earlier, I think implementing video technology on the touchline for the official to consult is the fairest solution. I welcome disagreement.

Costa banned for three matches.

 

[Bilo]

This would have been a much better response to my initial post than:



Which you never bothered to backup, yet still claim was a fair insinuation. What have I said in this thread that supports this?

I don't like a culture where we are worried about job security for incompetent performers. I think suspending/dropping Dean from one matchweek is completely fair. I welcome disagreement.

Costa banned for three matches.

Aside from almost sounding like a genuinely scary view of worker's rights in general, they're not incompetent. Every ref makes mistakes, and fines/bans will do nothing but make their work environment significantly worse than it already is. And let's not pretend it's anywhere near acceptable. We shouldn't look to make it worse, we should look to make it better.

You should google the effects of motivation by fear in comparison to motivation by reward by the way, the difference is astounding and there's a lot of research on the subject. I also get the feeling you'll be incredibly surprised.

Edit: As for the insinuations, I don't see the point discussing them to be honest. If you genuinely took offense, then I apologize and will avoid such a question next time.

 

[JimJams]

Refs need more power, more help (on the day) and more support (in the aftermath).
As always the finger can be pointed to rugby referees. When do they ever get as much grief as football refs?

 

[thespus]

Aside from almost sounding like a genuinely scary view of worker's rights in general, they're not incompetent. Every ref makes mistakes, and fines/bans will do nothing but make their work environment significantly worse than it already is. And let's not pretend it's anywhere near acceptable. We shouldn't look to make it worse, we should look to make it better.

You should google the effects of motivation by fear in comparison to motivation by reward by the way, the difference is astounding and there's a lot of research on the subject. I also get the feeling you'll be incredibly surprised.

Being a premier league official =/= low-skilled positions. It is disingenuous to compare me wanting accountability for a premier league official to my blanket view on worker's rights.

How is a premier league referee in a bad work environment? You make it seem as if they're working in a job that doesn't have a massive queue of aspiring officials.

 

[Bilo]

Refs need more power, more help (on the day) and more support (in the aftermath).
As always the finger can be pointed to rugby referees. When do they ever get as much grief as football refs?

Handball is another sport where the culture is very different. I'd argue they make as many mistakes as football referees, if not more, but they're just much higher thought of and in general respected. We should look into what they've done to reach that.

It'd be nice if a referee isn't the main talking point of every match of the day ever.

 

[Bilo]

Being a premier league official =/= low-skilled positions. It is disingenuous to compare me wanting accountability for a premier league official to my blanket view on worker's rights.

See, now you keep picking up on small things completely ignoring the point. How can you feel so violated all the time?

I said it almost sounded like such a view. Stop using it as an excuse to ignore the rest of the post.

 

[Bilo]

How is a premier league referee in a bad work environment? You make it seem as if they're working in a job that doesn't have a massive queue of aspiring officials.

You're in a thread about a petition against one single man, literally forbidden to defend himself openly, with over 50 000 signatures last I checked. His job is to decide who did what between 22 people all trying to con him, with between 5000 and 90 000 people shouting abuse at him just about once a week.

No, yeah, great place, we should definitely add fines and bans to it.

 

[Veggie Legs]

It'd be nice if a referee isn't the main talking point of every match of the day ever.

I think that's a very important point, the way the media (especially TV) focus entirely on refereeing decisions drives me mad and does nothing but undermine the officials. It doesn't surprise me that fans want a scapegoat to blame things on but professional pundits should be able to do better.

 

[thespus]

You're in a thread about a petition against one single man, literally forbidden to defend himself openly, with over 50 000 signatures last I checked. His job is to decide who did what between 22 people all trying to con him, with between 5000 and 90 000 people shouting abuse at him just about once a week.

No, yeah, great place, we should definitely add fines and bans to it.

I've said the petition was rubbish and it won't be going anywhere. He can't defend himself on the internet? Maybe I should be more sympathetic. You reckon he was aware of all these cons when he dedicated his career to reach this position?

I trust you haven't criticised referees on the internet before.

 

[Cardsfan]

I've said the petition was rubbish and it won't be going anywhere. He can't defend himself on the internet? Maybe I should be more sympathetic. You reckon he was aware of all these cons when he dedicated his career to reach this position?

I trust you haven't criticised referees on the internet before.

There's a difference between criticism and unnecessary abuse and calling for people to be suspended. So the fact that mistreatment of referees is part and parcel of English football and he knew this before starting his career means that no effort should be made to change this situation? Sooner or later there'll be no-one left willing to do it, who would?

 

[Bilo]

I've said the petition was rubbish and it won't be going anywhere. He can't defend himself on the internet? Maybe I should be more sympathetic. You reckon he was aware of all these cons when he dedicated his career to reach this position?

I trust you haven't criticised referees on the internet before.

Yeah, maybe you should be more sympathetic.

Your second question in this post is remarkably similar to that of employers against workers going on strike, by the way. "You knew the terms when you signed the contract." It holds little to no relevance to whether or not it's a situation worth bettering.

As for me, of course I have. I'm also against violence, despite having thrown a punch in my life. I'm against insults, yet I do insult people from time to time without thinking. It's called being human, I hope you're ok with it. We're all hypocrites, but it takes someone thinking of himself as an exception to actually think it makes a difference.

 

[Whitechapel]

Nowhere have I suggested anything similar. Incompetence doesn't have to have an agenda to be punishable.

He's good at reading posts and taking them the wrong way.

 

[Bilo]

Oh, you're both so violated. Report me to a

wait never mind

 

[BlueBee]

If getting Costa, Mike Dean and Costa Coffee banned wasn't enough....Arsenal fans are now calling for the FA to replay the game...no seriously, they are.

No words for that monstrosity of a fan base.

 

[thespus]

There's a difference between criticism and unnecessary abuse and calling for people to be suspended. So the fact that mistreatment of referees is part and parcel of English football and he knew this before starting his career means that no effort should be made to change this situation? Sooner or later there'll be no-one left willing to do it, who would?

If facing criticism on the internet is "mistreatment", most everyone is mistreated. (Post something Bilo disagrees with and he'll evaluate you as a person.) Uncompensated overtime, being denied just vacation or leave, sexual harassment, hazardous work environments - that's mistreatment.

Is there data available on a queue to be a Premier League referee? "No-one left willing to do it, who would?" seems a very bold statement. A job in football that pays £70-80,000 annually isn't going unfilled unless there is actual mistreatment - not having to avoid googling your own name. Bilo mentioned "reward motivation" - making thrice the average salary while officiating the best footballers in the world is the reward for someone who dedicated his/her life to officiating football.

 

[thespus]

If getting Costa, Mike Dean and Costa Coffee banned wasn't enough....Arsenal fans are now calling for the FA to replay the game...no seriously, they are.

No words for that monstrosity of a fan base.

On the contrary, you seem to have plenty of words given how frequently your attention is won by Arsenal fans.

 

[Whitechapel]

If getting Costa, Mike Dean and Costa Coffee banned wasn't enough....Arsenal fans are now calling for the FA to replay the game...no seriously, they are.

No words for that monstrosity of a fan base.

 

[BlueBee]

At least they're not wearing replica shirts.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Would fining and suspending referees who make mistakes improve their performance? I'm not sure it would.

 

[JimJams]

At least they're not wearing replica shirts.

They might be under the white robes.

 

[Bilo]

@ thespus and Whitechapel:

I'm still here. Whitechapel, I'm still in the other thread as well, you don't have to come over here and say the exact same thing. We get it, you feel violated because I think you pick up on paraphrasing way too often. But you're a mod now, you should be above sly digs off topic in threads we literally haven't exchanged a quote in. thespus, you missed just about everything I said, might want to go back and respond to that before talking about me as if I'm not here. It's extremely disrespectful and demeaning but then again, respect doesn't seem to be high on your agenda right now.

Did you ever google the results of motivation by fear as opposed to rewards, by the way? I really do think you'll be astonished by the results of the research just a few mouse clicks away. Off you go, I need to get some sleep anyway.

 

[thespus]

Would fining and suspending referees who make mistakes improve their performance? I'm not sure it would.

I'd be curious to hear why you don't think it would - beyond the humanitarian debate.

I mentioned this earlier, but I think the incorporation of video technology on the sideline is a good solution.

 

[Abertawe]

Whitechapel getting ruined

 

[Camborne Gills]

Good god, is there really 4 pages of this tripe? It is football, shit happens, get over it you dumbf**ks

 

[Anaconda]

As an Arsenal fan I think some of our supporters need to get a life because the way they have behaved after the Chelsea game getting embarrassing now