Athletic Article: League One and Two Seasons to be abandoned next week

[chipmunx]

Satanage fans on Borochat are more than a bit deluded too - desperately trying to prove that they should be above Macclesfield on PPG by using Macclesfield's points total after their points deductions for their calculations...
they should be using 36*(46/37)-11=33.75
but are using 25(46/37) =31.08
Unfortunately Satanage were that shit this season that their total (22*(46/36)=28.11) wouldn't be good enough whichever way they do it.
Maybe they are hoping that Macclesfield get another 3 or 4 point deduction as the wrong way of doing PPG would put them above Macclesfield then - whilst doing it the right way means they need a 6 point or higher deduction....

YES - I'm bored - I work nights and this is my 1st night off after 4 on - so i'm still awake....

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Stevenage fans genuinely have no valid grounds for survival, they've easily been the worst side I've ever seen at League Two level and it'd be a disgrace if they weren't relegated. 3 wins all season, we'd won 3 games by the 4th game of the season!

 

[Posh Harry]

I only dip into the site every and again at the moment, but my god, what has happened!
People are actually debating with Devon Lad! What is going on?

Come on guys, you are better than this, surely you are better than this. It’s Devon Lad ffs.

 

[Indian Dan]

The perennial loser!

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Can you explain your thinking behind why Swindon go up but Bolton and Southend do not come down. Whatever happens those two have to be out of League 1.

Purely to maintain the 24 clubs in each division.
Not having relegation from either division reduces the chance of legal challenge...

 

[Indian Dan]

Why do you think clubs won’t mount a legal challenge if they’re cheated out of promotion.

Since when has not being relegated favoured over denying promotion

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Purely to maintain the 24 clubs in each division.
Not having relegation from either division reduces the chance of legal challenge...

If League One wasn't so tight, I genuinely think they'd have had relegation (It's only Tranmere who really have a fair case. Southend and Bolton can really have no complaints and Stevenage had just lost 9 in a row before this Macc deduction made the table look a little closer) but also held a playoff competition which would've won more clubs in L1 and L2 over. Both 1 legged neutral semis and then a final at Wembley BCD. But then because two in League One would miss out on a technicality despite no one playing the same number of games in that league, there'd be an awful lot of controversy. Vale would be pissed in our league, but teams in our league have played the same number of games (except Cheltenham) and so there'd be less grounds for a grievance.

Sunderland (who would miss out in any way the season is decided be it promotion or this playoff proposal) allegedly proposed that ridiculous 8 team playoff system that was reported by Sky which would include 1st, 2nd in both divisions and 3rd in League Two which were all automatic places AND 7th in League One and 8th in both divisions which aren't good enough for the playoffs at all. Although it'd quell legal action for aspiring playoff teams, could you imagine the farce that would happen if the league leader didn't go up but the 8th placed team did? This isn't America where that sort of shite can actually happen. So that idea was laughed out a long time ago.

If it was up to me, I think the least unfair way (note there would still be losers) would be - Top 2 in L1 and Top 3 in L2 automatically promoted with Tranmere (unfortunately), Southend and Bolton relegated to League Two and Stevenage relegated to the National League. But BCD playoffs would decide the final promotion places.

A playoff competition between 3rd-6th on weighted PPG (Oxford 3rd, Fleetwood 4th, Peterborough 5th, Wycombe 6th) which would be a one game neutral semi and a one game neutral final. Portsmouth and Sunderland fans will do what fans of underachieving big city clubs do when they don't get their own way and moan, but I reckon the proposal would get enough support across the leagues to be binding. Because however the next season is played, be it through iFollow subscriptions behind closed doors making every game available, or through fans being allowed back into grounds, it'd actually be more lucrative for the existing L1 clubs to be guaranteed the income from a packed away end/many iFollow subscriptions should the service be given its potential reform to be home club only broadcasts that Sunderland and Portsmouth could bring, which is very disadvantageous for those clubs I know, but that's how Chairmen could realistically be thinking. So I think a large majority would vote in favour with only the relegated clubs, Portsmouth, Sunderland and potentially Oxford (who'd get promoted automatically in a weighted PPG system) and potentially Doncaster (who'd feel they had a chance of playoffs given the season continued given their games in hand) being against it. However, I wouldn't see any valid grounds for complaint for Doncaster or Oxford given that for the former, the season can't continue and the latter would simply be being opportunistic. Sunderland probably wouldn't have valid grounds either as no system would put them in the playoffs or promotion places whichever way you'd go. But Portsmouth would have a very significant grievance, as weighted PPG would drop them from 4th to 7th! So this very reason is why I think, although it sounds great, fairer and more clubs would probably support it, it probably won't happen.

In L2 it would be 4th-7th on weighted PPG (Cheltenham 4th, Exeter 5th, Colchester 6th, Northampton 7th) and pretty clear cut. The only sides I see being strongly opposed to this are Port Vale and Bradford (they could've made the playoffs if the season continued) and Stevenage (set for relegation). But as the season can't continue, I don't think any grievance would stand if it was legally binding. I think most mid-table Chairmen would genuinely not give a shit and be happy to vote it through as it wouldn't really affect them and they can get to discuss more financial related matters.

I'm just gutted because that League One season had one of the best promotion/playoff dogfights I've seen in years and it would've been a very interesting finish. But we'll never know...

 

[Boletus Edulis]

Purely to maintain the 24 clubs in each division.
Not having relegation from either division reduces the chance of legal challenge...

And the teams that think they should be promoted won’t make a legal challenge? That regulation cited earlier is pretty emphatic on the top 3, a bit more murky on the fourth because there is no play off possible.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

And the teams that think they should be promoted won’t make a legal challenge? That regulation cited earlier is pretty emphatic on the top 3, a bit more murky on the fourth because there is no play off possible.

I'm absolutely against rewarding failure over rewarding success. And I'm absolutely biased I know but in principle it'd be the view I'd always take.

That opportunist at Southend who thinks paying tax on time is an occupational hazard is now banging the null and void drum loudly. Of course, it won't be null and voided. But I'll be furious if they're not relegated when they were just 2 or 3 games away from having that confirmed, and there was no realistic chance of them surviving either.

 

[Indian Dan]

Big rumours on our forum that it is all done and dusted regarding ppg. Announcement Thursday.

 

[Devon_Lad]

If League One wasn't so tight, I genuinely think they'd have had relegation (It's only Tranmere who really have a fair case. Southend and Bolton can really have no complaints and Stevenage had just lost 9 in a row before this Macc deduction made the table look a little closer) but also held a playoff competition which would've won more clubs in L1 and L2 over. Both 1 legged neutral semis and then a final at Wembley BCD. But then because two in League One would miss out on a technicality despite no one playing the same number of games in that league, there'd be an awful lot of controversy. Vale would be pissed in our league, but teams in our league have played the same number of games (except Cheltenham) and so there'd be less grounds for a grievance.

Sunderland (who would miss out in any way the season is decided be it promotion or this playoff proposal) allegedly proposed that ridiculous 8 team playoff system that was reported by Sky which would include 1st, 2nd in both divisions and 3rd in League Two which were all automatic places AND 7th in League One and 8th in both divisions which aren't good enough for the playoffs at all. Although it'd quell legal action for aspiring playoff teams, could you imagine the farce that would happen if the league leader didn't go up but the 8th placed team did? This isn't America where that sort of shite can actually happen. So that idea was laughed out a long time ago.

If it was up to me, I think the least unfair way (note there would still be losers) would be - Top 2 in L1 and Top 3 in L2 automatically promoted with Tranmere (unfortunately), Southend and Bolton relegated to League Two and Stevenage relegated to the National League. But BCD playoffs would decide the final promotion places.

A playoff competition between 3rd-6th on weighted PPG (Oxford 3rd, Fleetwood 4th, Peterborough 5th, Wycombe 6th) which would be a one game neutral semi and a one game neutral final. Portsmouth and Sunderland fans will do what fans of underachieving big city clubs do when they don't get their own way and moan, but I reckon the proposal would get enough support across the leagues to be binding. Because however the next season is played, be it through iFollow subscriptions behind closed doors making every game available, or through fans being allowed back into grounds, it'd actually be more lucrative for the existing L1 clubs to be guaranteed the income from a packed away end/many iFollow subscriptions should the service be given its potential reform to be home club only broadcasts that Sunderland and Portsmouth could bring, which is very disadvantageous for those clubs I know, but that's how Chairmen could realistically be thinking. So I think a large majority would vote in favour with only the relegated clubs, Portsmouth, Sunderland and potentially Oxford (who'd get promoted automatically in a weighted PPG system) and potentially Doncaster (who'd feel they had a chance of playoffs given the season continued given their games in hand) being against it. However, I wouldn't see any valid grounds for complaint for Doncaster or Oxford given that for the former, the season can't continue and the latter would simply be being opportunistic. Sunderland probably wouldn't have valid grounds either as no system would put them in the playoffs or promotion places whichever way you'd go. But Portsmouth would have a very significant grievance, as weighted PPG would drop them from 4th to 7th! So this very reason is why I think, although it sounds great, fairer and more clubs would probably support it, it probably won't happen.

In L2 it would be 4th-7th on weighted PPG (Cheltenham 4th, Exeter 5th, Colchester 6th, Northampton 7th) and pretty clear cut. The only sides I see being strongly opposed to this are Port Vale and Bradford (they could've made the playoffs if the season continued) and Stevenage (set for relegation). But as the season can't continue, I don't think any grievance would stand if it was legally binding. I think most mid-table Chairmen would genuinely not give a shit and be happy to vote it through as it wouldn't really affect them and they can get to discuss more financial related matters.

I'm just gutted because that League One season had one of the best promotion/playoff dogfights I've seen in years and it would've been a very interesting finish. But we'll never know...

Do you continually try and write long posts to pretend you know what you're talking about? You're massively over compensating for your lack of knowledge and understanding. It's hilarious.

 

[Devon_Lad]

Big rumours on our forum that it is all done and dusted regarding ppg. Announcement Thursday.

What do you mean done and dusted? The EFL decision is literally the beginning. Peterborough, as with many clubs wi be taking it to court and it'll be null and voided. There is no provision for ppg in the charter, they don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[chipmunx]

You Exeter fans are nearly as bad as the Notts fans were in the Non-league section and even they have settled down

 

[Indian Dan]

Will it bollocks. Do you honestly think football clubs with the prospect of no income for months on end are going to spend millions they don’t have on legal action they’re going to lose.

L2 has sorted itself out with a vote - independently from the other 2 EFL leagues. Championship, fair play, will probably play out. L1 have to sort themselves out. But seeing as the FA have said any solutions must contain promotion and relegation, those L1 clubs can blow as much hot air as they want.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

NuLl AnD vOiD

If Exeter weren't so shit in front of goal against us not once but TWICE this season, they'd actually have benefited from PPG and you'd be telling us all about the glories of the system rather than the vain attempts for a method which will not be used as stated by the governing bodies.

 

[Indian Dan]

Devon Lad would feel more at home in some southern USA compound with the other rednecks.

 

[Crewelad87]

Devon lad is clearly a WUM, always has been and always will be. When this is all over and done with I hope he enjoys his trip to Barrow.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

I best not tell him that if Chris Porter scored that open goal he missed against Argyle, they'd have pipped Argyle to promotion through the PPG system...

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

If there's one thing that's really brought the worst out in football fans during this time, it really is the insatiable appetite for null and void like it's as good as a league title. I get why those who benefit from it are trying to champion it to stay up a division, but they really don't know just how catastrophic the risks of a void season are and I'm glad the media are starting to explain why the season can't be voided at all at this current point.

It makes me genuinely think some fans would rather see clubs risk their financial health just so they can laugh at a team not getting promoted or a league title, than accept it, move on with the TV deals as intact as possible (no doubt EFL TV income will be reduced by a penalty clause now the PL one has) and try and plan for our financial futures that lie in wait.

 

[Chris FGR]

Legal action? No chance. Clubs cant afford it and have no grounds anyway.

 

[Camborne Gills]

I best not tell him that if Chris Porter scored that open goal he missed against Argyle, they'd have pipped Argyle to promotion through the PPG system...

i would have scored that, and i have been on crutches since September!

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Nixon just confirmed what I alluded to a couple of days ago about EFL owners very very worried that the PL stands to lose money if the season isn't complete as our solidarity payments would decrease.

They're going to decrease anyway with these penalty clauses, but it stands to be well over twice as big a reduction if the PL failed to finish the season.

I always said when these were introduced just over a decade ago they were like a trojan horse into our game. Because clubs used these extra funds without thinking to fund daft promotion pushes and overpay players, the PL held us to ransom over EPPP and got their wish as they threatened to withdraw them. Now 8 years on after the horrors of EPPP, we're going to lose massively because the solidarity money now covers a large portion of lower league clubs budgets.

It genuinely is best we cut our ties from solidarity payments, scrapped EPPP and learned how to cut our cloth accordingly to stop us from ever needing to depend on the Premier League ever again.

 

[Trapdoor]

Agreed.

We shouldn't be surviving on pitiful hand outs from the top flight in exchange for our talent and player development.

We should abolish all these payments and cut out cloth according to club size, club fundraising and gate receipts.

Fuck the EPL and fuck Sky.

 

[Trapdoor]

Regarding Exeter, I don't care what league we play in. We are stable and well funded so we will get another chance next year. Id rather go up pissing the league than quibbling over a half finished competition. Leave that nonsense to teams who have no stable future.

 

[AdamStag]

As others have said, it’s unlikely clubs will go down the legal route, and also clubs can’t afford for the season to go on.

What would happen if a club (say Peterborough as they’re mentioned) went to court, are the other clubs in the league supposed to keep players while this goes on at a great expense?

As with this league, put it to a vote and whatever the outcome of that is followed up.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Agreed.

We shouldn't be surviving on pitiful hand outs from the top flight in exchange for our talent and player development.

We should abolish all these payments and cut out cloth according to club size, club fundraising and gate receipts.

Fuck the EPL and fuck Sky.

I think both our clubs were two of the most vocal against EPPP, I'm sure 22 in the EFL at that time voted against it in the end despite the threats the PL made, sadly the majority voted in favour. No doubt clubs without Academies or with severely limited opportunities for youth team players to break into the first team. Even worse, B Team advocate Dan Ashworth was one of the key players behind the awful initiative too.

Why did one of our revenue streams have to suffer just so they could still receive their precious handouts? I remember our board saying they were happy to not see anymore solidarity money if it meant they could still name their price for one of our up and coming prospects under the age of 17. But those who chased the pipe dreams got what they wanted to our detriment.

I'm hoping there's a shared consensus once this is over. But I remain very pessimistic. Let's not have handouts and let's be given the autonomy to spend what we want on our Academies and charge what we want for our players. And if the Sky deal goes down the swanny too because of this? Fuck them indeed. Let's appeal to terrestrial if we can because let's face it, the rights aren't going to sell for anywhere near the price they did last time, and so the exposure we could get could stimulate growth and help us on the road to recovery.

But such broad thinking isn't really shared by our friends in the Championship who see the bright lights of the Premier League, pound signs, marquee signings they can't afford and us as a total hindrance.

 

[Valeite]

Stevenage fans genuinely have no valid grounds for survival, they've easily been the worst side I've ever seen at League Two level and it'd be a disgrace if they weren't relegated. 3 wins all season, we'd won 3 games by the 4th game of the season!

Worse than the bottom team of 81/82 season who had a goal difference of minus55? Surely not.

 

[Valeite]

Stevenage fans genuinely have no valid grounds for survival, they've easily been the worst side I've ever seen at League Two level and it'd be a disgrace if they weren't relegated. 3 wins all season, we'd won 3 games by the 4th game of the season!

Worse than the bottom team of 81/82 season who had a goal difference of minus55? Surely not.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Worse than the bottom team of 81/82 season who had a goal difference of minus55? Surely not.

Luckily I didn't see any of those games for I hadn't even been born, but I believe even that pitiful side won 6 games at least...

 

[Luke Imp]

How does PPG work with Macc? Is it PPG then deduct points or deduct points then PPG off that figure? Not that it really matters I suppose (well, it doesn't on standard PPG, not sure about weighted home and away).