Athletic Article: League One and Two Seasons to be abandoned next week

[Si Robin]

Absolute zero chance of that happening.

Apparently, if football had been suspended a week earlier you would have been 3rd and Plymouth 5th!

Would we have still been 4th? If so, then that's even more justification for us to go up.

In any case, League One needs a whipping boy next season, it may as well be us (aside from our points from Swindon and Luton if they come down).

 

[valefan16]

I want the season to finish in the best way possible, by completing it of course. But with 40% of the leagues players out of contract and Rick Parry putting a 31st July deadline in? Not a chance we can do it unfortunately.

It won’t happen no, but Pope raised a good point that surely with the situation for L1 and 2 looking bleak for next season, certainly till Xmas probably based on whats been said about crowds then we could of just carried on then. (Even with different squads slightly) as at this rate 2020/21 may not even be a full season. (And any second peak in the Autumn or winter will certainly kill that season too and finish off a few clubs)

 

[RLC]

Not aimed at you specifically RLC but I see this sort of comment a lot and it is clearly nonsense. I've yet to see a single person agreeing with a solution that would adversely effect their club. At both ends of tables.

Why can't people just be honest and admit they are arguing for whatever plan benefits their team? There is nothing wrong with that.

It is not nonsense at all in my (our) case. If last season had ended in March and the play offs had been scrapped, I would not have felt any great sense of injustice. The play offs are a lottery and give a second chance to teams that were not good enough to go up automatically.

 

[Camborne Gills]

Would we have still been 4th? If so, then that's even more justification for us to go up.

In any case, League One needs a whipping boy next season, it may as well be us (aside from our points from Swindon and Luton if they come down).

The whipping boys should be MK Dons!!

 

[The Terminator]

It won’t happen no, but Pope raised a good point that surely with the situation for L1 and 2 looking bleak for next season, certainly till Xmas probably based on whats been said about crowds then we could of just carried on then. (Even with different squads slightly) as at this rate 2020/21 may not even be a full season. (And any second peak in the Autumn or winter will certainly kill that season too and finish off a few clubs)

It comes down to the players contracts as well though - Colchester have just released 4 high earners to help safe guard the club.

Lots of other clubs have probably between 10-15 players out of contract, with most of those they're going to need to shift to help balance the books and help the club stay afloat.

Then there is the sponsorship money and deals clubs have which start from the 2020/21 season, as well as the new TV deal money clubs get at the start of every season, clubs are going to need this more than ever.

As much as I want the season to play out, there are just simply too many loop holes and voids as well as costs involved to do it any time soon. I thought we could probably wait until new year as well, but listening to club owners from Leagues One and Two in the last month it was never going to happen.

 

[Indian Dan]

It is not nonsense at all in my (our) case. If last season had ended in March and the play offs had been scrapped, I would not have felt any great sense of injustice. The play offs are a lottery and give a second chance to teams that were not good enough to go up automatically.

But we’re not talking about ‘ordinary’ here. This is an extraordinary situation that needs a solution. Why do you think voiding hasn’t even been considered?

If ppg is used as a solution why do you think it is more important that it shouldn’t affect clubs ‘likely’ to be relegated but to hell with those who are ‘likely’ to be promoted?

If ppg actually prevented you from relegation and put, say, Wimbledon down you wouldn't be harping on about it. It’s understandable why you’re pissed off, I’d be the same, but to pretend it’s anything other than self interest is bollocks.

 

[Laker]

But we’re not talking about ‘ordinary’ here. This is an extraordinary situation that needs a solution. Why do you think voiding hasn’t even been considered?

If ppg is used as a solution why do you think it is more important that it shouldn’t affect clubs ‘likely’ to be relegated but to hell with those who are ‘likely’ to be promoted?

If ppg actually prevented you from relegation and put, say, Wimbledon down you wouldn't be harping on about it. It’s understandable why you’re pissed off, I’d be the same, but to pretend it’s anything other than self interest is bollocks.

“Likely” generally means more than 66% chance - look it up if you want. Not one play off side had a 66% chance of going up.

I am still dead against any play off side being promoted at the detriment of a side in a relegation spot. I’d rather a relegation side got a lucky reprieve - Tranmere had more chance of getting themselves out of it than any one club did of being promoted. And frankly it makes no odds to me whether we play Tranmere, Cheltenham or Exeter next season.

Automatic placed sides are different - they should gain the reward of promotion.

 

[Indian Dan]

But why is it more important for a club to wriggle out of relegation than it is for a club to be promoted. I don’t get why likely failure should be chosen over likely promotion.

 

[Laker]

Because those sides haven’t earned promotion. They’ve earned a 25% shot at promotion, nothing more. Tranmere had more than a 25% chance of safety - they were 3 points behind with a game in hand ffs! Relegating them and replacing them with a play off side is so wrong, I’d be pissed off if I was a Tranmere fan.

 

[Indian Dan]

Of course I’d be pissed off, too. But rewarding failure - or possible failure - instead of possible promotion isn’t right in my book.

Ffs, they’ve already had an advantage of there only being 3 relegation slots instead of 4 and they’re still in the shit.

 

[Jerry]

They’ve earned a 25% shot at promotion, nothing more.

No they haven't. I would suggest that the likes of Exeter and Cheltenham had just as much chance of overhauling one of the current top three as Tranmere had of catching Wimbledon.

 

[Laker]

No they haven't. I would suggest that the likes of Exeter and Cheltenham had just as much chance of overhauling one of the current top three as Tranmere had of catching Wimbledon.

Going by that you think we should promote five? That’s even more ridiculous.

 

[Indian Dan]

Going by that you think we should promote five? That’s even more ridiculous.

He didn’t suggest that at all. You said Tranmere had a good chance of overhauling Wimbledon, he said Exeter and Cheltenham had a better chance of making the autos.

Anyway, with such a bleak outlook there may not be 2 ‘bottom’ leagues left.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

No they haven't. I would suggest that the likes of Exeter and Cheltenham had just as much chance of overhauling one of the current top three as Tranmere had of catching Wimbledon.

I did wonder if they might just promote two to get around this. But that then opens up a legal case from us.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

“Likely” generally means more than 66% chance - look it up if you want. Not one play off side had a 66% chance of going up.

I am still dead against any play off side being promoted at the detriment of a side in a relegation spot. I’d rather a relegation side got a lucky reprieve - Tranmere had more chance of getting themselves out of it than any one club did of being promoted. And frankly it makes no odds to me whether we play Tranmere, Cheltenham or Exeter next season.

Automatic placed sides are different - they should gain the reward of promotion.

What is the penalty for the appalling situations at Bolton and Southend then? I think the thing that is going to tick me off is if those two wriggle out of their just desserts. I do have a lot of sympathy for Tranmere.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

He didn’t suggest that at all. You said Tranmere had a good chance of overhauling Wimbledon, he said Exeter and Cheltenham had a better chance of making the autos.

Anyway, with such a bleak outlook there may not be 2 ‘bottom’ leagues left.

Or we play B teams from Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea.

 

[Si Robin]

Because those sides haven’t earned promotion. They’ve earned a 25% shot at promotion, nothing more. Tranmere had more than a 25% chance of safety - they were 3 points behind with a game in hand ffs! Relegating them and replacing them with a play off side is so wrong, I’d be pissed off if I was a Tranmere fan.

As I've been told elsewhere - they would still have had to win that game in hand. Yes Tranmere had won three games in a row, but it only takes a bad performance in the next game for their form to fall off a cliff. They may not have won another game all season.

Let's be honest, no solution is going to satisfy everyone. Is this the way I'd want to win promotion - absolutely 100% not. As I said in my first post - it feels hollow if it's confirmed.

There's no way for me not to sound biased on this as the one team that benefits most from it, but I do think the league are going with the easiest route. Void the season then everyone goes nuts, aside from Bolton, Stevenage and Southend. Do it this way, the only teams you're pissing off are Exeter and Tranmere.

 

[Indian Dan]

And Peterborough, apparently.

 

[Greenacres]

Bizarrely I'm quite looking forward to playing Tranmere and Bolton next season, for vastly differing reasons, if their relegation is confirmed...and of course if there is a season and we are allowed into the ground to spectate!

 

[dannyc5]

Tranmere have been in the bottom 3 for the vast, vast majority of the season. Why is their good form so likely to carry on, seeing as they have been so poor for the rest of the season? Exeter, Plymouth and Cheltenham have been trading 3rd for months now. I would suggest those 3 teams had a better shot of getting the 3rd auto spot than Tranmere had of staying up.

Very tough on Tranmere, but then life is tough atm. This is a once in a life time event (hopefully) and there are no easy answers. But you cannot just wait around, hoping to finish the season when it is safe to do so. Club owners and Rick Parry have made it clear that teams will go bust if that happens

 

[RLC]

Tranmere have been in the bottom 3 for the vast, vast majority of the season. Why is their good form so likely to carry on, seeing as they have been so poor for the rest of the season? Exeter, Plymouth and Cheltenham have been trading 3rd for months now. I would suggest those 3 teams had a better shot of getting the 3rd auto spot than Tranmere had of staying up.

Very tough on Tranmere, but then life is tough atm. This is a once in a life time event (hopefully) and there are no easy answers. But you cannot just wait around, hoping to finish the season when it is safe to do so. Club owners and Rick Parry have made it clear that teams will go bust if that happens

Our good form was likely to continue because we had a completely different group of players after the January transfer window. That was planned as part of our adjustment after back to back promotions. The season lasts 46 games. By relegating us you are effectively penalising us for responsible behaviour last summer when we did not piss money we did not have up the wall, but waited until we could afford to spend. You cant just create an arbitrary cut off point for a season. You either complete it or void it.

 

[RLC]

But we’re not talking about ‘ordinary’ here. This is an extraordinary situation that needs a solution. Why do you think voiding hasn’t even been considered?

If ppg is used as a solution why do you think it is more important that it shouldn’t affect clubs ‘likely’ to be relegated but to hell with those who are ‘likely’ to be promoted?

If ppg actually prevented you from relegation and put, say, Wimbledon down you wouldn't be harping on about it. It’s understandable why you’re pissed off, I’d be the same, but to pretend it’s anything other than self interest is bollocks.

And I am sure your interest in this subject is completely altruistic. What a load of bollocks. Voiding a season ensures every club maintains its current status rather than making arbitrary 'guesses' about who would have gone up and down. You have not been promoted. Leeds have not been promoted. What would have happened in the final ten games Is unknowable.

 

[Indian Dan]

Deluded or what. Your certain your good form would continue, eh.

Is that not an arbitrary guess? Hypocrite.

Can’t have it both ways. You’re doomed. Deal with it.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

And I am sure your interest in this subject is completely altruistic. What a load of bollocks. Voiding a season ensures every club maintains its current status rather than making arbitrary 'guesses' about who would have gone up and down. You have not been promoted. Leeds have not been promoted. What would have happened in the final ten games Is unknowable.

RLC the one decision I cannot see the EFL making is voiding the season - it opens up too many can of worms. So I think your position is rather academic.

Nor do I think playing in June/July is practical or morally correct. In fact, I think playing this summer is an argument that is all about the funding of the PL, and tv contracts. And on that basis I am out.

Personally I think the only two practical options are 1) End the season now and make a decision re relegation and promotion. Which seems to be what the EFL are going to do. 2) Finish off the season whenever football can start again, which may not be until 2021 or may even later. Then have a short break and start the next season. I recognise the second option has all sorts of issues, legal and practical.

The sub text to all of this is that clubs are going to go bust, quite possibly a lot unless the FL bail them out, and Leagues 1 and 2 probably won’t look like they do now anyway. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that there won’t be four professional leagues. How are Tranmere’s finances, will you be able to survive? In which case you might still be in the third tier anyway.

 

[RLC]

RLC the one decision I cannot see the EFL making is voiding the season - it opens up too many can of worms. So I think your position is rather academic.

Nor do I think playing in June/July is practical or morally correct. In fact, I think playing this summer is an argument that is all about the funding of the PL, and tv contracts. And on that basis I am out.

Personally I think the only two practical options are 1) End the season now and make a decision re relegation and promotion. Which seems to be what the EFL are going to do. 2) Finish off the season whenever football can start again, which may not be until 2021 or may even later. Then have a short break and start the next season. I recognise the second option has all sorts of issues, legal and practical.

The sub text to all of this is that clubs are going to go bust, quite possibly a lot unless the FL bail them out, and Leagues 1 and 2 probably won’t look like they do now anyway. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that there won’t be four professional leagues. How are Tranmere’s finances, will you be able to survive? In which case you might still be in the third tier anyway.

Ironically, our overall finances are strong so we are likely to survive whereas some of the 'promoted' clubs won't because of their recent spending levels.

 

[RLC]

Deluded or what. Your certain your good form would continue, eh.

Is that not an arbitrary guess? Hypocrite.

Can’t have it both ways. You’re doomed. Deal with it.

Your certain you would have won the league then are you ? That is my whole point. Nothing has been decided mathematically. Take some lithium and stay out of the sun.

 

[Laker]

What is the penalty for the appalling situations at Bolton and Southend then? I think the thing that is going to tick me off is if those two wriggle out of their just desserts. I do have a lot of sympathy for Tranmere.

I am not against relegation for Bolton and Southend. But I do find those with the knives out for Tranmere a bit heartless. “It’s tough on then but fuck it” seems to be the argument. Well I say the same to Cheltenham or Exeter who hadn’t earned it either.

I was against relegation altogether a while ago. I’ve been swung round to a point but not for sides being promoted when they finish 4th. That’s not right.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

Ironically, our overall finances are strong so we are likely to survive whereas some of the 'promoted' clubs won't because of their recent spending levels.

When you say “promoted” clubs, I assume you are referring to ourselves Crewe and Swindon. I can’t speak for the other two but last week our owner gave a very bullish fans forum. Several times he made the point that because we’ve no debt and new income streams, that relative to many other clubs in leagues 2, 1 and the Championship we will come out of it very strongly. And his use of the term Championship seemed very deliberate.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

I am not against relegation for Bolton and Southend. But I do find those with the knives out for Tranmere a bit heartless. “It’s tough on then but fuck it” seems to be the argument. Well I say the same to Cheltenham or Exeter who hadn’t earned it either.

I was against relegation altogether a while ago. I’ve been swung round to a point but not for sides being promoted when they finish 4th. That’s not right.

This for me is the crux. A few weeks ago it looked like no relegation, and for Bolton and Southend it struck in the claw. I gave, and continue to give, no attention to Tranmere as I have no beef with them. If we don’t get promoted then so be it, but if Notlob and Southend don’t get relegated I shall be really annoyed.

 

[RLC]

When you say “promoted” clubs, I assume you are referring to ourselves Crewe and Swindon. I can’t speak for the other two but last week our owner gave a very bullish fans forum. Several times he made the point that because we’ve no debt and new income streams, that relative to many other clubs in leagues 2, 1 and the Championship we will come out of it very strongly. And his use of the term Championship seemed very deliberate.

I was not thinking of you specifically, more so clubs in our division and above who have spent excessively.