Derby v Brentford

[MagpieBee]

I recognise that the guy has done an awful lot for the club but that doesn't mean he can't do things wrong and be scrutinised for it.

i find it very strange that you'd be happy with a method the way that the team and transfers are managed based upon statistics etc when you're the only club that I know if that does it? The owner doesn't come from a football background and Brentford are his club based on being a fan (tell me if I'm wrong). Find it strange that you're happy it.

Anyway, eventually it doesn't really matter - just think that fans who don't question anything or criticise a major figure at a football club get complacent. Look at wenger at arsenal.

I wouldn't say we don't question anything at all, I have been pretty critical of the management team for the failings of the past 6 months. But a few mistakes over the past 6 months doesn't erase some fantastic work put in over the past 6 years. As you say, Benham is relatively new to football, and we are new to the Championship, we are also a small club with very limited resources, so we are bound to make some mistakes, we shouldn't throw our toys out of the pram at the first sign of trouble though. As toshj said, that would be incredibly fickle.

We've had quite a lot of information on the transfer method over the past few years, it makes sense, and it would seem to be the only way we can punch above our weight in this division, or any other, based on our current revenues. In theory, this approach should save a lot of money in the long term, and that can only be a good thing surely? There are very few fans who don't back this approach, we have all seen the benefits already.

Having said that, on current / recent performance, I'm not happy with the management of the club. I don't know all the ins and outs but it would seem some big mistakes have been made in the last year. I trust Benham to put it right though, when mistakes have been made in the past they have been quickly rectified and we move on.

I don't mind people who have a moan or a complain about a club, and I also agree that people shouldn't just blindly support everyone regardless of results (or lack of) but everyone shouldn't just lose their heads because of a few things going wrong. I'm not happy at the moment, we are playing terrible football, our manager doesn't want to be here, and we are in real danger of getting relegated unless things improve, but there are so many mitigating factors to this.

As a couple of us Bees on here have said before, this will probably get worse before it gets better, but our long-term future is so bright (new stadium, bigger younger better squad, bigger more experienced coaching staff, Championship football), we shouldn't let a short term blip rip up all of our plans.

 

[toshj]

I recognise that the guy has done an awful lot for the club but that doesn't mean he can't do things wrong and be scrutinised for it.

i find it very strange that you'd be happy with a method the way that the team and transfers are managed based upon statistics etc when you're the only club that I know if that does it? The owner doesn't come from a football background and Brentford are his club based on being a fan (tell me if I'm wrong). Find it strange that you're happy it.

Anyway, eventually it doesn't really matter - just think that fans who don't question anything or criticise a major figure at a football club get complacent. Look at wenger at arsenal.

No one is saying he can't be scrutinised, and many of the loyal fans have indeed been critical of how things have been run in the last 6 months, but there's a massive difference in fully supporting the team despite being critical of a few aspects and castigating the owner and ridiculing his system. There's been a big push back in the media claiming that we've revolutionised the way we do things this season by introducing a stats-based model, but that model has been in place for the last few years. What we've done differently this season is aim to buy cheaper foreign-based players whom offer greater value for money. We can't afford Premiership players and we can't afford Championship players. So our only option, given our transfer and wage budget, is either poaching players from League One or from abroad.

From League One we signed Ryan Woods for around £800,000, but for that same amount of money we signed the German U21 striker and for slightly less we signed a French former youth international and Anderlecht right back - for slightly more we signed a Danish international and Sweden's top flight top scorer. You mentioned in an earlier post about the fees you believe we've generated in this last transfer window, and then in your last post about you finding it very strange that we're happy with the manner in which the team and transfers are being managed through statistics... but the fees are proof that the system has been working:

Gray - £600k a year ago into £6m + £3.25m + 27.5% sell on
Odubajo - £1m a year ago into £3m + sell on
Dallas - £35k into £1.25m + £250k + sell on
Grigg - £450k into £1m + sell on

We also had a massive offer for Tarkowski, not far short of the initial up front fee paid for Gray, and we turned that down. I understand we signed Tarkowski for around £300k. Tarkowski, Gray, Odubajo, Judge, Jota, Grigg, etc. are all players we've signed off the back of this statistical transfer model you seem to find strange. Yes, our recent signings haven't settled, our new manager wasn't up to scratch and we've had the worst injury crisis we've ever faced. Sometimes these things happen, and although most fans aren't particularly impressed with how the last 6 months have gone, the vast majority of these fans realise that Benham has the capability to turn this around based upon his overwhelming success as owner of Brentford and FCM thus far. This is the first wobble we've had in 6 years, so why on earth would the fans be dusting off the pitchforks and screaming rebellion?

 

[MagpieBee]

No one is saying he can't be scrutinised, and many of the loyal fans have indeed been critical of how things have been run in the last 6 months, but there's a massive difference in fully supporting the team despite being critical of a few aspects and castigating the owner and ridiculing his system. There's been a big push back in the media claiming that we've revolutionised the way we do things this season by introducing a stats-based model, but that model has been in place for the last few years. What we've done differently this season is aim to buy cheaper foreign-based players whom offer greater value for money. We can't afford Premiership players and we can't afford Championship players. So our only option, given our transfer and wage budget, is either poaching players from League One or from abroad.

From League One we signed Ryan Woods for around £800,000, but for that same amount of money we signed the German U21 striker and for slightly less we signed a French former youth international and Anderlecht right back - for slightly more we signed a Danish international and Sweden's top flight top scorer. You mentioned in an earlier post about the fees you believe we've generated in this last transfer window, and then in your last post about you finding it very strange that we're happy with the manner in which the team and transfers are being managed through statistics... but the fees are proof that the system has been working:

Gray - £600k a year ago into £6m + £3.25m + 27.5% sell on
Odubajo - £1m a year ago into £3m + sell on
Dallas - £35k into £1.25m + £250k + sell on
Grigg - £450k into £1m + sell on

We also had a massive offer for Tarkowski, not far short of the initial up front fee paid for Gray, and we turned that down. I understand we signed Tarkowski for around £300k. Tarkowski, Gray, Odubajo, Judge, Jota, Grigg, etc. are all players we've signed off the back of this statistical transfer model you seem to find strange. Yes, our recent signings haven't settled, our new manager wasn't up to scratch and we've had the worst injury crisis we've ever faced. Sometimes these things happen, and although most fans aren't particularly impressed with how the last 6 months have gone, the vast majority of these fans realise that Benham has the capability to turn this around based upon his overwhelming success as owner of Brentford and FCM thus far. This is the first wobble we've had in 6 years, so why on earth would the fans be dusting off the pitchforks and screaming rebellion?

Agree with all of this.

We also weren't that great at the beginning of last season, we got a bit lucky with a few good results. Players like Gray, Jota and co took quite a while to get going. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the cheaper foreign signings we've made turn out to be very good players. We really have thrown them into the deep end at the moment.

 

[markwwfc1992]

I was very impressed with Brentford's transfer window, If it wasn't for injuries they'd be at the higher end of the table rather than the bottom no doubt. If a stats model can sign you German under 21' international class strikers for less than 1m then I'd be all for giving it a try at Wolves. Other players like McEchran seem like a bargain compared to some of the fees being thrown around.

My only critique of Brentford was to sack their manager. I think he deserved more time, and if half of his team wasn't decimated by injury, I predict Brentford's fortunes would be very different to what they currently are.

 

[toshj]

I was very impressed with Brentford's transfer window, If it wasn't for injuries they'd be at the higher end of the table rather than the bottom no doubt. If a stats model can sign you German under 21' international class strikers for less than 1m then I'd be all for giving it a try at Wolves. Other players like McEchran seem like a bargain compared to some of the fees being thrown around.

My only critique of Brentford was to sack their manager. I think he deserved more time, and if half of his team wasn't decimated by injury, I predict Brentford's fortunes would be very different to what they currently are.

He wasn't sacked, we didn't renew his contract. The goings on of January and February are best left off a forum, but suffice to say that I reckon 95% of owners would have sacked the manager on the spot rather than retain him to the end of the season like Benham did.

Warburton is a great motivator and delivers brilliant attacking football, and I expect he'll find a lot of success in the future. But he and his backroom staff didn't act in the best interests of the club at all over a 4 week period earlier this year, and unfortunately it was best for both parties to go their separate ways - similar to how you don't want to break up with the love of your life, and you know things will never be the same again, but there's no way you can stay together because of their actions

 

[mpmbee]

I agree with all of that tosh but think markwwfc was talking about Dijkhuizen.

 

[markwwfc1992]

Yeah, I meant Dijkhuizen, just was too lazy to attempt to spell the name

 

[toshj]

Haha woops. On Dijkuizen, it definitely came as a surprise to me but having heard the juicy details of what's been going on behind the scenes with training.