Everton and Martinez

[NiallQuinnDiscoPants]

There's no way Everton will go down. If they do continue to lose and get dragged down there, I can definitely see it being a right kick up the arse to some of the players and performances will get better.

But i think it's crazy what's happened to them this year. I don't even think it's anything to do with the Europa League. What has being so inept last night in a midweek game got to do with the Europa League. The spine of their team has had a shocker the last few months. The defensive strength they used to have is completely gone. The flair they had going forward last year is hit & miss. Lukaku seems to have gotten lazy after his great year last year and getting the big money move that he wanted.

 

[Pagnell]

It goes without saying from my perspective but Everton going down would be hilarious. They have diced with it a few times over the last few decades (finished 17th twice since 1996) but have managed to avoid it and maintain their record for top flight seasons. It would be all the funnier if it happened this season with Martinez, meaning he would have had two Premiership relegations in the space of three seasons.

However, as mentioned, there are at least three teams that are worse, and they're 6 points above the relegation spots. And if their shit form continues and they genuinely look like they're in danger of going down, as said above, it will be enough to motivate the quality players they do have to get their thumbs out their butts and make the effort.

16th is my prediction.

 

[Arkan]

We've just got to aim for the forty point mark now which means we need four wins from our remaining games. Considering we've only had six wins in the league all season, that's no easy task. I think we'll finish 12th. It's annoying to see that Stoke and Swansea have the same amount of goals as us but are so far ahead of us. I think I read yesterday that no one has failed to win from winning positions more than Everton this season and everytime we've gone behind in a game we have failed to win. At least for our next two games Barry is suspended, that's a positive.

 

[Smudge]

There's no way Everton will go down. If they do continue to lose and get dragged down there, I can definitely see it being a right kick up the arse to some of the players and performances will get better.

But i think it's crazy what's happened to them this year. I don't even think it's anything to do with the Europa League. What has being so inept last night in a midweek game got to do with the Europa League. The spine of their team has had a shocker the last few months. The defensive strength they used to have is completely gone. The flair they had going forward last year is hit & miss. Lukaku seems to have gotten lazy after his great year last year and getting the big money move that he wanted.

Im glad someone isnt so lazy as to just blame the Europa League. We have played only 3 domestic cup games this season, so we have played just 11 games outside of the League. Liverpool have played the same number in Europe as us, as well as 9 domestic cup games. Spurs have played 6 more domestic cup games, and 2 more in Europe. They also had a lot more travelling in their group stage than we did. Chelsea have played more Cup games than we have. Its a lazy excuse.

Ive just written this on another board. Some specifically about last night, the rest about our wider issues.

But anyway, our problems are now so deep, I dont have a clue how we fix them before the end of the season. Last night actually started much better than recently, it was a scrappy end to end first half hour, but we looked a little bit more up for it, we were winning the 50-50s and the crowd were getting a bit narky. Then we conceded, and we downed tools. Stoke were then the ones winning the 50-50s, and while we dominated possession second half, as usual, we did nothing with it. Osman and Kone made a difference when they came on, but like the home game, Stoke had a lead to hold on to then, and were quite content to just sit back and let us have it and hit us on the break. Which they did. Our defending is still incredible. The first goal, how many errors from that throw in? We mark up, and manage to have 5 players to 3 on their box, but leave Naismith to mark 2 men putting the cross in! Moses header, Im afraid when a player scores a header from that range, one of two things has usually happened. Its got a lot of pace on it and the keeper cant move in time, or the keeper is off his line and it has looped over him. Neither of those has happened. Howard is on his line, the ball doesnt even pass him that high up. But the useless ***** doesnt even move his feet, utterly pathetic a supposedly experienced and professional goalkeeper getting beat like that from that range. I also didnt see it at the time, but saw it on MOTD, Jagielka's role in the goal. He's actually marking Moses, has hold of him, pushes him away, and walks off into space marking nobody. Then stands and gawps when he heads in the goal, while James McCarthy goes absolutely apeshit at him. This is our captain...the same captain who wont acknowledge 2,900 fans when he walks off the pitch at the end, just puts his head down and ignores it. *****.

The second goal, if ever a single goal summed up our entire season, it was this one. It had everything that has gone wrong all rolled into one. First the awful defending, the worst ever first touch in the history of football from Lukaku, then both Gibson and Jagielka successively failing to deal with it. Then the poor refereeing, as pointed out, I dont think it was a foul on Jagielka, but if the ref has any consistency, he gave those sorts of fouls against us all night, but lets this one go. Then the **** goalkeeping...Im not even sure what exactly Howard was doing, Arnautovic's shot was almost a low chip from a tight angle. Keeper again should never get beat from there, yet there's Howard on his knees flapping around doing nothing. And finally, pure lack of luck. Luck deserts you when you're at the bottom, first as the Stoke player wins the ball and tries to knock it into space behind Stones, Stones gets the block, but it bounces straight into Diouf's path, and just when you think we're still alive at 1-0 when Arnautovic's shot hits the post, it rebounds straight to Diouf with a tap in. Our season review DVD should just have that goal on a loop.

So the problems...Ive already started addressing a couple of them. The one I noticed more than anything last night though was that we are playing like there are two camps in the team. Because half look like they're trying and working, and facing up to the crowd when they're losing, the other half look like they dont give a ****, dont like the manager, and probably dont like half their teammates, like a gang of bloody children. When you watch a football team, and a player makes a bad mistake that costs the them, his teammates are over, consoling him, picking him up, even if inside they might be thinking he's an enormous *****. Watch us, we have none of that at the moment. Look at the reaction to the two Howard screwed up against Leicester 2 weeks ago, everyone just walks off ignoring each other. Last night, McCarthy losing his **** at the first goal while Jagielka and Howard just stand there like its nothing to do with them. The Mirallas penalty against West Brom, players telling him what a dick he is on the pitch before he takes it while he just completely ignores them, and then not a single player goes near him when he does miss it. We also dont have a single leader in the side. I always said this under Moyes, with Moyes I think it was an ego/ personality thing, he always clashed with anyone who had a big gob and a stronger personality than him. Ferguson, Beckford, it apparently led to us missing out Bellamy when he signed for Blackburn. The last real leader and organiser we had at Everton was Alan Stubbs. And Moyes even fell out with him and shipped him out to Sunderland, only to realise how much we needed him and brought him back. There has been nobody like that since he retired though. Nobody picking the team up when we're playing alright then let in a stupid goal, organising, and on that throw in yesterday, telling someone to mark Bardsley because he's got Moses. Nobody telling the players to stop skulking off when the crowd are demanding blood and telling them to get over there and appreciate the fact they care enough to go to ******** Stoke on a freezing Wednesday night. As much as we all bemoaned Phil Neville and his expert pointing finger, he was Moyes' man on the pitch. As **** a leader as Neville was, he was still Moyes ideals on the pitch. Martinez hasnt done that yet. We need to make it to the summer staying up, and then he needs a clear out. Too many bad apples in this team, he's got rid of one in Distin, but there are still too many in there. The worrying thing is that its mostly the experienced players. These are supposed to be the ones the younger players look to for help and inspiration, and they're strolling around like they dont give a ****. Osman and Gibson aside yesterday, I think they played well, and they are still onside. The likes of Jagielka, Howard, Barry, Mirallas are looking like the leaders of the revolution at the moment, while you've got kids like Stones, Garbutt, Coleman and McCarthy busting their arses for nothing.

On Martinez, we keep complaining about the system. I read a note from a journo last night highlighting when us and Liverpool have differed since December. At one stage, we were 3 points behind Liverpool, we are now 23 behind them, they are unbeaten since the United game in December, while we have won just twice since then. The biggest difference this journo points out is that Rodgers stopped being stubborn and trying to play the same system as last year with different players, and started playing a system that suited who he had, and they havent looked back. We are still stubbornly doing the same thing. I think right now, given the fact that we have multiple wingers on the books, all ****, 3 at the back with the two full backs playing wing back is the way to go until the end of the season. Free up another player to join Lukaku in the attack, the full backs can be let loose properly without worrying about whats going on behind them.

Robles
Jagielka-Stones-Alcaraz
Coleman-McCarthy-Gibson-Baines/Garbutt
Barkley/Naismith/Osman
Lukaku-Kone
​

WTF is Aaron Lennon as well btw? How in the world has he been a Premier League player in a top 6 team for 10 years? He's ******** diabolical.

 

[G-Dragon]

Liverpool Dodged a bullet there with Martinez.

 

[Super_horns]

If teams who aren't going to win the league don't like getting into Europe what is their ambition/aim?

Everton have had one long trip into Eastern Europe - the rest in France/Switzerland and Germany.

Not sure tiredness should be an excuse.

 

[GodsGift]

It's a lot more complicated than that. The issue is to do with players' recovery and the scheduling of games, not the distance they're travelling on a plane. A study in 2012 found that in terms of league points lost, teams playing on the Sunday after a Thursday night Europa League game were found to gain 0.41 points less than average. Look at what happened to Newcastle the year after they finished fifth, look at Swansea the year they qualified. I think comparing Everton to Liverpool and Tottenham isn't fair, either. The latter two have better strength in depth and can deal with being in two or three competitions at any one time.

Yet saying that, I'm sure there are still questions over Martinez's management, his tactics and player recruitment. And even though I'm a fan of his, I do believe he needs to develop a plan B or at least look to change things every once in a while, like Rodgers has done.

 

[Smudge]

It's a lot more complicated than that. The issue is to do with players' recovery and the scheduling of games, not the distance they're travelling on a plane. A study in 2012 found that in terms of league points lost, teams playing on the Sunday after a Thursday night Europa League game were found to gain 0.41 points less than average. Look at what happened to Newcastle the year after they finished fifth, look at Swansea the year they qualified. I think comparing Everton to Liverpool and Tottenham isn't fair, either. The latter two have better strength in depth and can deal with being in two or three competitions at any one time.

The thing is as well though, we have had opportunities this season to utilise the squad. Not many Ill admit because our squad is so small. But we have still had them. We rested players at home to Palace for example. That was in the middle of a very busy period fair enough, but I dont have a clue why we rested players for that game, when we had a League Cup tie 2 days later where we had already said we were resting everybody. Martinez complaining of tiredness last night doesnt wash either when we had a perfect opportunity in the Young Boys second leg to give a few a break. How often do you find yourself at this stage of the season with a game that is effectively a dead rubber? It would have taken an epic collapse of all time to throw away that tie after we done all the hard work in Switzerland, so I dont know why we played a completely full strength 11 when we didnt need to. He'd only said days before that Lukaku was knackered...so leave him out of the European game when we dont need him then! Likewise 34 year old Gareth Barry plays in every single game he isnt suspended for.

Ill agree squad management is important, but we not done that well this season. Again, I think thats down to Martinez being too loyal to some of his favourites. He defended Howard after one of the recent games by saying he wasnt match fit...well why in the world did he not play a game or two for the under 21s, as the likes of Osman, Oviedo, Kone and Pienaar have recently, and stick with Joel at least until he was fit?

 

[Bootroom]

Heard this poster lasted about 6 weeks

 

[Smudge]

Stupid from the club that. Their backtrack was even stupider. They replaced it with one of Kendall/ Harvey/ Ball for a themed 'retro day,' and even claimed after that they would recycle different ones for the rest of the season, and that was always the plan...Kendall/ Harvey/ Ball are still there months later.

Marketing at the club are stupendously thick. They seem to latch on to something that is a bit of a fad, and milk it for all its worth. Like Moyes' 'Peoples Club' balls. He made a little comment in his first press conference to curry a bit of favour and get the fans onside, that was cool for all of about 10 minutes. Then the club started actually using it as a slogan, while simultaneously shitting all over said people without even a hint of irony.

 

[Arkan]

Those Chelsea fans cheering for Bolton so Everton would get relegated.

 

[merseyboyred]

The thing is as well though, we have had opportunities this season to utilise the squad. Not many Ill admit because our squad is so small. But we have still had them. We rested players at home to Palace for example. That was in the middle of a very busy period fair enough, but I dont have a clue why we rested players for that game, when we had a League Cup tie 2 days later where we had already said we were resting everybody. Martinez complaining of tiredness last night doesnt wash either when we had a perfect opportunity in the Young Boys second leg to give a few a break. How often do you find yourself at this stage of the season with a game that is effectively a dead rubber? It would have taken an epic collapse of all time to throw away that tie after we done all the hard work in Switzerland, so I dont know why we played a completely full strength 11 when we didnt need to. He'd only said days before that Lukaku was knackered...so leave him out of the European game when we dont need him then! Likewise 34 year old Gareth Barry plays in every single game he isnt suspended for.

Ill agree squad management is important, but we not done that well this season. Again, I think thats down to Martinez being too loyal to some of his favourites. He defended Howard after one of the recent games by saying he wasnt match fit...well why in the world did he not play a game or two for the under 21s, as the likes of Osman, Oviedo, Kone and Pienaar have recently, and stick with Joel at least until he was fit?

The lack of nous with squad rotation to me seems similar to Rodgers in the CL early on in the season (and still at times some would say). Betrays the lack of experience he has in managing multiple competitions with the squad. Rodgers has shown he's able & willing to learn & adapt though, if Martinez doesn't then he's done for himself.

Must admit to being a little surprised that he hasn't been more flexible, at least in terms of system if not style of play. Seemed like he was at Wigan.

 

[Mr Bauer]

I think I'll retract my earlier sentiment.

Everton being in the predicament that they're in is completely unacceptable and I believe Roberto Martinez must shoulder the blame.

 

[Pagnell]

An understandable change of heart Jack. After all, 2 wins in 15 is massively different from 2 wins in 16.

 

[G.B]

g'wan paggers, tell him how it is mate

 

[Smally]

The lack of nous with squad rotation to me seems similar to Rodgers in the CL early on in the season (and still at times some would say). Betrays the lack of experience he has in managing multiple competitions with the squad. Rodgers has shown he's able & willing to learn & adapt though, if Martinez doesn't then he's done for himself.

Must admit to being a little surprised that he hasn't been more flexible, at least in terms of system if not style of play. Seemed like he was at Wigan.

Hit the nail on the head. The biggest gripe I have with him is his refusal that he's making mistakes in team selection. He's picked Barkley or Naismith to play on the left for the majority of games this season and it simply doesn't work, yet he persists with it. Barkley and Naismith are awful playing wide, they both completely ruin Baines' game which is all about linking up with the man infront of him and getting behind the opposition full back, and it also ruins Coleman as he loves getting into the box on the back post from left wing crosses. We're also massively unbalanced playing this way, with all our attacks going down the right or hoping Lukaku can keep hold of the ball in the middle. The fact that Barkley plays best in a deeper midfield role and Naismith is better centrally seems lost on Martinez. In the squad, we have Pienaar, Mirallas, Oviedo & Atsu who can all play left wing, even Osman can fill in there if needed. Yes we've had injuries but what he's picked doesn't work, yet he stubbornly sticks with it

 

[Smudge]

The bizarre thing is though, his subs and tactical switches were spot on last season. He made a few changes that were unpopular and baffling at the time, but they more than came off. Pienaar scoring the winner against Hull seconds after coming on. Best one of the lot I thought was West Ham away where we had already made 2 changes at half time, and then Osman (who was playing wide left) got injured. The whole away end was getting giddy with excitement for Deulofeu coming on, only for him to bring on Oviedo, much to everyone's shock. It was the perfect sub though, as it maintained that balance Osman was giving us, and let us play Mirallas and Oviedo either side of Lukaku, and of course we came from behind twice to win.

Its ironic I see that Oviedo sub as one of the better ones last year, and yet this year, balance just aint happening. Yet its obvious on the very few occasions we have it we are so much better balanced. West Ham away in the Cup, we were pretty awful until McGeady got sent off at 1-0 down. Took off Besic and Barkley for Mirallas and Oviedo and actually looked like we were going to do something, even with 10 men.

 

[Alty]

Im glad someone isnt so lazy as to just blame the Europa League. We have played only 3 domestic cup games this season, so we have played just 11 games outside of the League. Liverpool have played the same number in Europe as us, as well as 9 domestic cup games. Spurs have played 6 more domestic cup games, and 2 more in Europe. They also had a lot more travelling in their group stage than we did. Chelsea have played more Cup games than we have. Its a lazy excuse.

Ive just written this on another board. Some specifically about last night, the rest about our wider issues.

But anyway, our problems are now so deep, I dont have a clue how we fix them before the end of the season. Last night actually started much better than recently, it was a scrappy end to end first half hour, but we looked a little bit more up for it, we were winning the 50-50s and the crowd were getting a bit narky. Then we conceded, and we downed tools. Stoke were then the ones winning the 50-50s, and while we dominated possession second half, as usual, we did nothing with it. Osman and Kone made a difference when they came on, but like the home game, Stoke had a lead to hold on to then, and were quite content to just sit back and let us have it and hit us on the break. Which they did. Our defending is still incredible. The first goal, how many errors from that throw in? We mark up, and manage to have 5 players to 3 on their box, but leave Naismith to mark 2 men putting the cross in! Moses header, Im afraid when a player scores a header from that range, one of two things has usually happened. Its got a lot of pace on it and the keeper cant move in time, or the keeper is off his line and it has looped over him. Neither of those has happened. Howard is on his line, the ball doesnt even pass him that high up. But the useless ***** doesnt even move his feet, utterly pathetic a supposedly experienced and professional goalkeeper getting beat like that from that range. I also didnt see it at the time, but saw it on MOTD, Jagielka's role in the goal. He's actually marking Moses, has hold of him, pushes him away, and walks off into space marking nobody. Then stands and gawps when he heads in the goal, while James McCarthy goes absolutely apeshit at him. This is our captain...the same captain who wont acknowledge 2,900 fans when he walks off the pitch at the end, just puts his head down and ignores it. *****.

The second goal, if ever a single goal summed up our entire season, it was this one. It had everything that has gone wrong all rolled into one. First the awful defending, the worst ever first touch in the history of football from Lukaku, then both Gibson and Jagielka successively failing to deal with it. Then the poor refereeing, as pointed out, I dont think it was a foul on Jagielka, but if the ref has any consistency, he gave those sorts of fouls against us all night, but lets this one go. Then the **** goalkeeping...Im not even sure what exactly Howard was doing, Arnautovic's shot was almost a low chip from a tight angle. Keeper again should never get beat from there, yet there's Howard on his knees flapping around doing nothing. And finally, pure lack of luck. Luck deserts you when you're at the bottom, first as the Stoke player wins the ball and tries to knock it into space behind Stones, Stones gets the block, but it bounces straight into Diouf's path, and just when you think we're still alive at 1-0 when Arnautovic's shot hits the post, it rebounds straight to Diouf with a tap in. Our season review DVD should just have that goal on a loop.

So the problems...Ive already started addressing a couple of them. The one I noticed more than anything last night though was that we are playing like there are two camps in the team. Because half look like they're trying and working, and facing up to the crowd when they're losing, the other half look like they dont give a ****, dont like the manager, and probably dont like half their teammates, like a gang of bloody children. When you watch a football team, and a player makes a bad mistake that costs the them, his teammates are over, consoling him, picking him up, even if inside they might be thinking he's an enormous *****. Watch us, we have none of that at the moment. Look at the reaction to the two Howard screwed up against Leicester 2 weeks ago, everyone just walks off ignoring each other. Last night, McCarthy losing his **** at the first goal while Jagielka and Howard just stand there like its nothing to do with them. The Mirallas penalty against West Brom, players telling him what a dick he is on the pitch before he takes it while he just completely ignores them, and then not a single player goes near him when he does miss it. We also dont have a single leader in the side. I always said this under Moyes, with Moyes I think it was an ego/ personality thing, he always clashed with anyone who had a big gob and a stronger personality than him. Ferguson, Beckford, it apparently led to us missing out Bellamy when he signed for Blackburn. The last real leader and organiser we had at Everton was Alan Stubbs. And Moyes even fell out with him and shipped him out to Sunderland, only to realise how much we needed him and brought him back. There has been nobody like that since he retired though. Nobody picking the team up when we're playing alright then let in a stupid goal, organising, and on that throw in yesterday, telling someone to mark Bardsley because he's got Moses. Nobody telling the players to stop skulking off when the crowd are demanding blood and telling them to get over there and appreciate the fact they care enough to go to ******** Stoke on a freezing Wednesday night. As much as we all bemoaned Phil Neville and his expert pointing finger, he was Moyes' man on the pitch. As **** a leader as Neville was, he was still Moyes ideals on the pitch. Martinez hasnt done that yet. We need to make it to the summer staying up, and then he needs a clear out. Too many bad apples in this team, he's got rid of one in Distin, but there are still too many in there. The worrying thing is that its mostly the experienced players. These are supposed to be the ones the younger players look to for help and inspiration, and they're strolling around like they dont give a ****. Osman and Gibson aside yesterday, I think they played well, and they are still onside. The likes of Jagielka, Howard, Barry, Mirallas are looking like the leaders of the revolution at the moment, while you've got kids like Stones, Garbutt, Coleman and McCarthy busting their arses for nothing.

On Martinez, we keep complaining about the system. I read a note from a journo last night highlighting when us and Liverpool have differed since December. At one stage, we were 3 points behind Liverpool, we are now 23 behind them, they are unbeaten since the United game in December, while we have won just twice since then. The biggest difference this journo points out is that Rodgers stopped being stubborn and trying to play the same system as last year with different players, and started playing a system that suited who he had, and they havent looked back. We are still stubbornly doing the same thing. I think right now, given the fact that we have multiple wingers on the books, all ****, 3 at the back with the two full backs playing wing back is the way to go until the end of the season. Free up another player to join Lukaku in the attack, the full backs can be let loose properly without worrying about whats going on behind them.

Robles
Jagielka-Stones-Alcaraz
Coleman-McCarthy-Gibson-Baines/Garbutt
Barkley/Naismith/Osman
Lukaku-Kone
​

WTF is Aaron Lennon as well btw? How in the world has he been a Premier League player in a top 6 team for 10 years? He's ******** diabolical.

If he's over the hill/having a bad season, fine, but why the personal attack on Tim Howard? "The useless ****"? "The **** goalkeeping"? He's been a good servant over the years hasn't he?

 

[Smudge]

Because he is now a useless **** and it was ****shit goalkeeping? These arent personal attacks, they are pretty matter of fact assessments of a player who is not up to the job anymore. He's cost us goals all season long, this isnt just a little bad spell.

 

[Alty]

Because he is now a useless **** and it was ****shit goalkeeping? These arent personal attacks, they are pretty matter of fact assessments of a player who is not up to the job anymore. He's cost us goals all season long, this isnt just a little bad spell.

Nice to know Everton fans are so generous to their long-serving players. Follows on from the bizarre abuse Moyes got after leaving. As if leaving for the biggest club in the world after a decade of service was an affront to Everton Football Club or something.

Just odd.

 

[Techno Natch]

Because he is now a useless **** and it was ****shit goalkeeping? These arent personal attacks, they are pretty matter of fact assessments of a player who is not up to the job anymore. He's cost us goals all season long, this isnt just a little bad spell.

Its not his fault the manager keeps picking him. It's amusing that fans are so quick to bring up a players loyalty but it doesn't take long for fans to turn on managers and players.

 

[Smudge]

Nice to know Everton fans are so generous to their long-serving players. Follows on from the bizarre abuse Moyes got after leaving. As if leaving for the biggest club in the world after a decade of service was an affront to Everton Football Club or something.

Just odd.

Still moaning about that? Bore off, it was fuck all to do with 'leaving,' see the reception he got for his last home game against West Ham if you think it was just because he left.

Tim Howard is doing nothing to endear himself in this poor form either. So its not simply a case of he's playing shit so lets have a go. See the Leicester game, had already made an almighty cock up to gift them an equaliser, minutes later launches a goal kick straight into the Bullens under no pressure, and fucking laughs about it. Running off the pitch as fast as you can and completely ignoring 3000 travelling fans at Stoke (hard to do, considering we sit right next to the tunnel...) wont help your cause either.

 

[mistermagic]

Nice to know Everton fans are so generous to their long-serving players. Follows on from the bizarre abuse Moyes got after leaving. As if leaving for the biggest club in the world after a decade of service was an affront to Everton Football Club or something.

Just odd.

Moyes is the manager of Real Sociedad mate. Not Real Madrid.

I do agree that you seem to carry a lot of gripe towards Howard, Smudge. Ok, he's turned bad but like you said earlier it just happened so suddenly that he seems like a passenger compared to the guy who kept the United States in the World Cup until extra-time against Belgium. What I find also odd is the Joel Robles-love in. If you look at Everton's defeat at Hull (yeah, that bad) Robles was absolutely awful on both goals conceded. When I look at those goals I instantly tell myself that Howard wouldn't have conceded those. However I do get how a defence can just stop trusting its goalkeeper and that seems to be the case with Howard. Still think a club like Everton should have a better goalkeeper when Howard leaves than Robles.
This thread has been a great read btw. Very insightful regarding Everton's domestic woes.

 

[Smudge]

Id love to see how anyone else would react when their goalkeeper has been costing the team goals all season long and they've gone from Champions League contenders to relegation possibles in 12 months...Mignolet, Hart, Scezsny, all much younger keepers who have been under more scrutiny than Howard any time they make a single mistake. Howard has made endless mistakes this season. Joel let in a bad goal against Hull yes, when playing behind the confidence and injury stricken defence that Howard left him. A few games, and him and the defence getting used to each other, and the lot of them improved. Im not thinking long term at all with Joel, whats the point in thinking about what keeper you can sign in the summer, when our problem is an immediate one? Simple fact is, Robles has played better than Howard this season. He kept 3 clean sheets in 6 League starts this season. Howard has kept the same number...in 22 League starts. Robles would have saved every goal Howard has let in since his restoration to the side, except the 2 at Arsenal. I dont however believe we would have kept a clean sheet in the Palace and Liverpool games, had Howard still been in goal. Howard has had a knack this season of conceding and putting us under pressure in games we arent even under any pressure.

And come on citing that Belgium game...the majority of those shots were straight at him. And if you're going to point out a goalkeeper can only save what comes at him, Howard has the worst save percentage of every regular keeper in the Premier League this season. A fairly recent stat attack http://babb.telegraph.co.uk/2015/02/ranking-the-premier-league-goalkeepers-february-2015/ ranks him as the worst keeper in the league statistically this season. He let that Belgium game and the total overreaction that followed go to his head, and has been absolute shit since. He was an average steady keeper, nothing like one of the best around, and his kicking has always been abysmal, as has commanding his area. But he's average, and probably the best we could afford in the last few years. He has let the circus that followed the World Cup give him a overinflated opinion of himself, and he has got worse.

 

[Alty]

Id love to see how anyone else would react when their goalkeeper has been costing the team goals all season long

The normal reaction would be to say something like "much as it pains me to say it as he's been a great player for us, I think Howard is finished. Martinez needs to get a long-term replacement sorted out ASAP".

Calling him a c*** is just fucking bizarre. Sometimes you need to have a bit of perspective.

 

[Smudge]

The normal reaction would be to say something like "much as it pains me to say it as he's been a great player for us, I think Howard is finished. Martinez needs to get a long-term replacement sorted out ASAP".

Calling him a c*** is just fucking bizarre. Sometimes you need to have a bit of perspective.

Ive been watching the useless prick chuck it into his own net all season while we're sliding our way to relegation. Id like to see anyone have a bit of perspective in the same situation. Its football FFS, should we applaud him and sing his name like fucking sea lions when hes picking the ball out of the net yet again because hes shit at football now but he was good 5 years ago?

Get a grip. Normal reaction my arse. Ill stick to less tribal attitudes from now on to please you, and when he leads us to relegation in May, I shall take great pains not to insult any of our shit players with shit attitudes.

 

[Smudge]

http://eplindex.com/65114/new-joel-robles-201415-statistics-improvements.html

Good statistical analysis of Joel's improvement.

 

[Alty]

Ive been watching the useless prick chuck it into his own net all season while we're sliding our way to relegation. Id like to see anyone have a bit of perspective in the same situation. Its football FFS, should we applaud him and sing his name like fucking sea lions when hes picking the ball out of the net yet again because hes shit at football now but he was good 5 years ago?

Get a grip. Normal reaction my arse. Ill stick to less tribal attitudes from now on to please you, and when he leads us to relegation in May, I shall take great pains not to insult any of our shit players with shit attitudes.

I think you need to calm down and catch yourself on. Tim Howard obviously doesn't enjoy playing badly. I don't think this is all part of a big joke in which he takes the piss out of Everton. He's just not as good as he was.

 

[Smudge]

ARF ARF USA!

I think you're the one needs to catch yourself on. Its easy to be gracious and level headed from your armchair. Calling your keeper a c*** 12 hours after you wasted yet another days leave to watch him cost us yet another goal in a yet another crucial defeat is not exactly a shocking reaction.

 

[G.B]

"catch yourself on"

genuinely never heard anyone say that, ever.