Explosion at Manchester Arena

[The Eyes of Self Actual]

Islam is not a race:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40059351

 

[Alty]

Islam is not a race:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40059351

TBF (and I don't know much about this case) it seems like this guy just had an obsession with weapons and the AQ website was of use to him only because he wanted info on how to make a bomb, not because he was a jihadist.

 

[Redfox]

Going to explain how that remotely ties into liberalism? I must have missed the tenet that stated all dangerous criminals must be left on the streets if there's sufficient evidence they're a risk.

Because liberals have naively made the apparent peaceful, loving, great human rights religion that is Islam look like a minority group that should be protected and if you dare criticise it or have any suspicions about anything like any of its people supporting Isis then you are deemed a racist and that my friend leads to people getting sacked from their jobs and other life ruining stuff.

So it's no wonder people are afraid to report these Islamists, even the police are scared to bother them too in fear of losing their jobs, just look at what happened in Rotherham with that Islam rape human trafficking gang.

 

[The Eyes of Self Actual]

TBF (and I don't know much about this case) it seems like this guy just had an obsession with weapons and the AQ website was of use to him only because he wanted info on how to make a bomb, not because he was a jihadist.

No, he was a convert who changed his name to an Islamic name.

Of course, FAKE news BBC omits these details. Come to expect it.

Because liberals have naively made the apparent peaceful, loving, great human rights religion that is Islam look like a minority group

Minority group!?

It always baffles me.

1.6 billion people and growing fast - minority!!

 

[Benji]

This individual was reported and deemed not priority of concern. People simply do not have time to work a full time job and also be a private investigator of their peers.

Islam and its followers have their issues, but they are not ubiquitous across the entire span of 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide. I am not convinced that you have the compassion or interest in looking at this as anything more than "Us vs Them".

 

[sl1k]

Just coming back from a remembrance gathering for the victims of the Manchester attack near East London Mosque.

My heart goes out to the victims and their families in their darkest hours. Our children are most precious of all things in the world so it's been especially difficult to digest the reality of what's happened. Manchester's response to the tragedy was incredible though; stories of local businesses providing food, cabbies coming out to give drops and people opening their homes to strangers at the time gave a stutter to my breath.

We are united in this fight, and stand shoulder to shoulder as a community. Make no mistake that this is the only way we'll stamp out this vile disease that descriminates against no one when targeting its' victims , so those with the language of division and hate just understand that you are an indirect agent of the extremist recruiters.

Proud of what our society represents and proud to be a British Muzzie.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Question Time was good last night. A lot of support for Prevent - or at least the concept of Prevent - from Sara Khan, Nazir Afzal and Colin Parry.

For the most part very sensible contributions from the audience too. The issue of foreign policy did come up but it was acknowledged by Muslim members of the audience and the panel that extremist preaching in U.K. mosques remains a serious problem and leads to radicalisation.

This is a decent (critical) piece on Prevent. I think it's important to recognise that Prevent is both a threat to free expression and also really bad at uncovering potential extremists.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n10/karma-nabulsi/dont-go-to-the-doctor

Even on its own terms, Prevent is a failure, as well as being counterproductive. In early 2011, the Equality and Human Rights Commission reported that not only do the measures in many cases breach human rights law, but ‘counter-terrorism laws and policies are increasingly alienating Muslims, especially young people and students,’ and ‘counter-terrorism measures may themselves feed and sustain terrorism.’ MI5 rejected the conveyor belt theory in 2008, in a report leaked to the Guardian. In 2010, the incoming coalition cabinet received a briefing (leaked to the Sunday Telegraph) that warned them not ‘to regard radicalisation in this country as a linear “conveyor belt”, moving from grievance, through radicalisation, to violence … This thesis seems to both misread the radicalisation process, and to give undue weight to ideological factors.’ The ‘vulnerability assessment framework’ that the government relies on is based on a single study of a small number of people imprisoned for terrorist offences. That study is classified, but when the two authors explained their methodology in another, published article, a review by 19 other experts found it unsound.

In a position statement on ‘Counter-Terrorism and Psychiatry’ published last September, the Royal College of Psychiatrists warned that thousands of Muslim men and women were being referred to Channel on the basis of questionable science, and demanded that the Home Office allow ‘data on evaluations of Prevent’ to be made available for ‘peer review and scientific scrutiny’: ‘Public policy cannot be based on either no evidence or a lack of transparency about evidence.’ The doctors warned that identifying refugees with the terrorism from which they have fled ‘could add to their trauma’. They also noted that ‘any assumption that there is a generally identifiable “path to radicalisation”, to which some individuals will be psychologically vulnerable, needs to be treated with caution.’

A Freedom of Information request to the police revealed that more than 80 per cent of the reports on individuals suspected of extremism were dismissed as unfounded. This ‘over-reporting’ by an army of officially empowered civilian informants, leading to the investigation of blameless British people by the police, has been defended as showing that Prevent is ‘working effectively’. What it really shows is how Prevent actually works: by encouraging, endorsing and institutionalising a set of conventions and values premised on fear, ignorance and suspicion of non-whites – immigrants, foreigners, racialised Muslims. Prevent has turned ordinary citizens and public sector workers into an auxiliary surveillance militia. Talking or texting in Arabic on a plane, speaking a foreign language in a doctor’s waiting room, wearing a hijab while walking down the street near your house, wearing a free Palestine badge at school – people doing all these things have been reported to police under the Prevent programme.

 

[HertsWolf]

The end game for them is an Islamic planet. Death to all non-believers. The Quran states this multiple times.

Christianity also has ridiculous, aggressive statements throughout. Most Christians recognise that no matter how important and holy the Bible, it is formed of documents selected by bishops in the early centuries AD and so written for a different, difficult era.
Just as Christians ignore or by-pass the more aggressive parts of the Bible, so Muslims move past the stranger, more aggressive parts of the Quran. The mainstream and majority of both faiths profess peace, love and understanding. And endlessly giving money for poor quality jams, second-hand books and cakes for charity.

Let's say a Christian fundamentalist group decided to stick absolutely to the letter of the Bible and go out and execute people with unkempt hair or people who have torn their clothes (both Leviticus 10:6), execute homosexuals (Lev 18:22, 20:13) and kill people who make sacrifices to any other gods (Ex 22:20). Now normal people would think this extreme, yes? Now would you be OK with the atheists and Muslims and Buddhists waging a hate campaign against all 2.2. billion Christians worldwide as a result of these Christian nutter extremists? I am really, really hoping you are getting where I am going with this.

Last year, a software engineer compared the Bible and the Quran using text analysis and concluded that violence was more common in the Bible than in the Quran. Link is here. It was, by his own admission, a superficial assessment but still it reinforces the fact that there is violence in both holy texts.

But how on earth can you find the extremists?

This is a very, very good question and if we could jump past the utter crap, it might start an interesting conversation. It's a question that taxes all of us.

It won’t end. Our politicians and the left-wing loons are hell-bent on destroying Europe.

Look, take off the tin-foil-hat and the bitter anger and start to think. What you have said there is just silly. Why would politicians want to destroy our continent? Think about what you are saying. Try to dial down the rhetoric and start thinking. The right and the left have different solutions and recognise the same problems, albeit from different positions. Both right and left in this country have made many mistakes, but both right and left have had successes. Who would you "blame" or "reward" for the success of peace in Northern Ireland? The right or the left?

There is no panacea for the world's problems, and every few years brings a new set of intractable challenges: in five years it will be something else. I've said before, in this thread, we are better off as a nation than at any time in history. We are wealthier, better educated, live longer, have better health and better diets, are safer. We persuade ourselves we aren't largely because newspapers don't sell with headlines like Fuck All Happened Today.

I don't disagree that we have a significant problem with terrorist groups with a proclaimed Islamist agenda, but it is a problem faced by people of all faiths and across the world.

Edited: massively too long so shortened!

 

[HertsWolf]

In the meantime, I see a former UKIP MEP is demanding the death penalty for suicide bombers. Nice one, Joyce. That'll work. Is UKIP membership actually dependent on a successful lobotomy?

 

[Redfox]

On the one hand, it is tempting to ignore your tin-foil-hat rants, but on the other...it's kind of important to rebut the utter shite you put out, even though there is little to suggest that you have much ability to rationalise the right way round to sit on a toilet seat.

Christianity also has ridiculous, aggressive statements throughout. Most Christians (one that don't live in the US mid-West, mainly) recognise that no matter how important and holy the Bible, it is formed of documents selected by bishops in the early centuries AD and so written for a different, difficult era. (That sentence alone would probably have me banned from 18 states and much of North West Scotland.)
Just as Christians ignore or by-pass the more aggressive parts of the Bible, so Muslims move past the stranger, more aggressive parts of the Quran. The mainstream and majority of both faiths profess peace, love and understanding. And endlessly giving money for poor quality jams, second-hand books and cakes for charity.

Let's say a Christian fundamentalist group decided to stick absolutely to the letter of the Bible and go out and execute people with unkempt hair or people who have torn their clothes (both Leviticus 10:6), execute homosexuals (Lev 18:22, 20:13) and kill people who make sacrifices to any other gods (Ex 22:20). Now normal people would think this extreme, yes? Now would you be OK with the atheists and Muslims and Buddhists waging a hate campaign against all 2.2. billion Christians worldwide as a result of these Christian nutter extremists? I am really, really hoping you are getting where I am going with this.

Last year, a software engineer compared the Bible and the Quran using text analysis and concluded that violence was more common in the Bible than in the Quran. Link is here. It was, by his own admission, a superficial assessment but still it reinforces the fact that there is violence in both holy texts.



This is a very, very good question and if we could jump past the utter crap, it might start an interesting conversation. It's a question that taxes all of us.



Look, take off the tin-foil-hat and the bitter anger and start to think. What you have said there is just silly. Why would politicians want to destroy our continent? Think about what you are saying. Try to dial down the rhetoric and start thinking. The right and the left have different solutions and recognise the same problems, albeit from different positions. Both right and left in this country have made many mistakes, but both right and left have had successes. Who would you "blame" or "reward" for the success of peace in Northern Ireland? The right or the left?

There is no panacea for the world's problems, and every few years brings a new set of intractable challenges: in five years it will be something else. I've said before, in this thread, we are better off as a nation than at any time in history. We are wealthier, better educated, live longer, have better health and better diets, are safer. We persuade ourselves we aren't largely because newspapers don't sell with headlines like Fuck All Happened Today.

I don't disagree that we have a significant problem with terrorist groups with a proclaimed Islamist agenda, but it is a problem faced by people of all faiths and across the world.

Edited: massively too long so shortened!

I find it hilarious when people like you try to put Christianity in the same bracket as Islam. Yes just look at all those Christian fundamentalists bombing the shit out of the world today so they can go to paradise!

Islamic extremism is the problem today, not Christian extremism, so lets focus on that.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

I find it hilarious when people like you try to put Christianity in the same bracket as Islam. Yes just look at all those Christian fundamentalists bombing the shit out of the world today so they can go to paradise!

Islamic extremism is the problem today, not Christian extremism, so grow up.

Did you want all Christians deported during the height of the IRA bombings?

 

[Redfox]

No, he was a convert who changed his name to an Islamic name.

Of course, FAKE news BBC omits these details. Come to expect it.



Minority group!?

It always baffles me.

1.6 billion people and growing fast - minority!!

If you are white and a Christian then you are an evil Nazi racist.

 

[Redfox]

Did you want all Christians deported during the height of the IRA bombings?

The IRA wanted Northern Ireland to go back to being part of Ireland again, they did not want all none Christians to be killed, whereas ISIS on the other hand wants anyone who does not convert to Islam to be slaughtered.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

The IRA wanted Northern Ireland to go back to being part of Ireland again, they did not want all none Christians to be killed, whereas ISIS on the other hand wants anyone who does not convert to Islam to be slaughtered.

So, no then. Just checking.

 

[Redfox]

So, no then. Just checking.

You're a troll.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

You're a troll.

 

[TheMinsterman]

The IRA wanted Northern Ireland to go back to being part of Ireland again, they did not want all none Christians to be killed, whereas ISIS on the other hand wants anyone who does not convert to Islam to be slaughtered.

So the IRA bombs were made of sunshine, rainbows and happiness then?

 

[TheMinsterman]

If you are white and a Christian then you are an evil Nazi racist.

You need to stop spending so much time on Tumblr and enter the real world, the hair dyed walking stereotypes aren't everywhere, it's ok.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Because liberals have naively made the apparent peaceful, loving, great human rights religion that is Islam look like a minority group that should be protected and if you dare criticise it or have any suspicions about anything like any of its people supporting Isis then you are deemed a racist and that my friend leads to people getting sacked from their jobs and other life ruining stuff.

So it's no wonder people are afraid to report these Islamists, even the police are scared to bother them too in fear of losing their jobs, just look at what happened in Rotherham with that Islam rape human trafficking gang.

And who exactly are the "liberals"? Do you even understand what liberalism is or is it just anybody who disagree with you and doesn't automatically want anybody who owns a Quran to be deported?

Again, sources. Please, once again, provide legitimate impartial sources where somebody has lost their job or been ostracised for reporting somebody for supporting ISIS. I'm waiting, as it is so rampant you should be able to find some, no? And no, I don't want something from Breitbart, just like I don't want something from the Guardian from "the other side".

Demonstrate examples where all a person did was report somebody for supporting ISIS who lost their jobs and had their life ruined. Rotherham only demonstrates that the public at large were outraged that people were stupid enough to avoid acting, I don't ever recall any large number of people saying "Good job guys, you did right to not offend anybody".

What "liberals" have described as a minority isn't Muslims themselves, but extremists, and that isn't factually inaccurate. They are a minority, if they weren't how the fuck have we have so few attacks since 9/11? As horrible as they are, they are still exceptionally rare, if Muslims are a frothing throng of immoral, backwards death cultists then they're also abysmal at achieving their ends as there's enough of them to cause serious damage IF they really are all so inclined. Yet they aren't.

It's almost as if you and the "liberal left" you straw man only see things in black and white.

 

[TheMinsterman]

This individual was reported and deemed not priority of concern. People simply do not have time to work a full time job and also be a private investigator of their peers.

Islam and its followers have their issues, but they are not ubiquitous across the entire span of 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide. I am not convinced that you have the compassion or interest in looking at this as anything more than "Us vs Them".

I went to the UAE and Oman. Nobody tried to kill me. Nobody forced converted me. Nobody tried to get me to wear specific clothing. Nobody attempted to decapitate me.

I was incredibly disappointed.

 

[.V.]

And who exactly are the "liberals"? Do you even understand what liberalism is or is it just anybody who disagree with you and doesn't automatically want anybody who owns a Quran to be deported?

Again, sources. Please, once again, provide legitimate impartial sources where somebody has lost their job or been ostracised for reporting somebody for supporting ISIS. I'm waiting, as it is so rampant you should be able to find some, no? And no, I don't want something from Breitbart, just like I don't want something from the Guardian from "the other side".

Demonstrate examples where all a person did was report somebody for supporting ISIS who lost their jobs and had their life ruined. Rotherham only demonstrates that the public at large were outraged that people were stupid enough to avoid acting, I don't ever recall any large number of people saying "Good job guys, you did right to not offend anybody".

What "liberals" have described as a minority isn't Muslims themselves, but extremists, and that isn't factually inaccurate. They are a minority, if they weren't how the fuck have we have so few attacks since 9/11? As horrible as they are, they are still exceptionally rare, if Muslims are a frothing throng of immoral, backwards death cultists then they're also abysmal at achieving their ends as there's enough of them to cause serious damage IF they really are all so inclined. Yet they aren't.

It's almost as if you and the "liberal left" you straw man only see things in black and white.

Woah woah woah, let's not compare Breibart to The Guardian.

 

[Aber gas]

Woah woah woah, let's not compare Breibart to The Guardian.

The Guardian is worse tbqpfh.

 

[HertsWolf]

I find it hilarious when people like you try to put Christianity in the same bracket as Islam. Yes just look at all those Christian fundamentalists bombing the shit out of the world today so they can go to paradise!

Well actually you don't find it hilarious. You froth at the mouth and rant. Try reading what was written.

Extremists are using the name of a faith to do evil. You realise that more Muslims are killed by these extremists than Christians, right? You realise that more toddlers killed people in the US last year than Islamist (or any other) terrorists?

1,810 people were killed by road accidents in the UK last year. Are you running around screaming about cars and lorries and buses and shit? A lot of those were killed by drunk drivers? Are you "focusing" on globally banning alcohol and deporting off-licence owners?

And yes, there are Christian fundamentalist terrorists: Google Lords Resistance Army to find out more. I really, really can't be completing your shallow education for you.

 

[Redfox]

And yes, there are Christian fundamentalist terrorists: Google Lords Resistance Army to find out more. I really, really can't be completing your shallow education for you.

Never heard of them, so they can't be that bad if they are never in the news.

 

[HertsWolf]

Never heard of them, so they can't be that bad if they are never in the news.

That says an awful lot about you. They are in central Africa. Thats A.f.r.i.c.a. It's a continent. Again, Google it.

They have killed thousands and caused the displacement of hundreds of thousands of people across a huge area.

And they are frequently in the news.

Your location is "Mars"? Yeh. Beginning to believe that. Complete lack of oxygen and largely toxic gas.

 

[Abertawe]

You're being trolled.

 

[Redfox]

And who exactly are the "liberals"? Do you even understand what liberalism is or is it just anybody who disagree with you and doesn't automatically want anybody who owns a Quran to be deported?

Again, sources. Please, once again, provide legitimate impartial sources where somebody has lost their job or been ostracised for reporting somebody for supporting ISIS. I'm waiting, as it is so rampant you should be able to find some, no? And no, I don't want something from Breitbart, just like I don't want something from the Guardian from "the other side".

Demonstrate examples where all a person did was report somebody for supporting ISIS who lost their jobs and had their life ruined. Rotherham only demonstrates that the public at large were outraged that people were stupid enough to avoid acting, I don't ever recall any large number of people saying "Good job guys, you did right to not offend anybody".

What "liberals" have described as a minority isn't Muslims themselves, but extremists, and that isn't factually inaccurate. They are a minority, if they weren't how the fuck have we have so few attacks since 9/11? As horrible as they are, they are still exceptionally rare, if Muslims are a frothing throng of immoral, backwards death cultists then they're also abysmal at achieving their ends as there's enough of them to cause serious damage IF they really are all so inclined. Yet they aren't.

It's almost as if you and the "liberal left" you straw man only see things in black and white.

People who post stuff criticising Islam on twitter get arrested whereas if Islamists over here chant the death of British people and shout for the support of Isis in the street the police do NOTHING. There was a guy not so long ago walking down Westminster waving an Isis flag and the police did fuck all and said he was allowed to do it. See the link below:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3150089/Man-parading-ISIS-flag-outside-Big-Ben.html

Go look all this stuff up and open your eyes!!

 

[HertsWolf]

You're being trolled.

Yeh, I know. But it worries me that people read what he writes and believe it.

 

[Redfox]

That says an awful lot about you. They are in central Africa. Thats A.f.r.i.c.a. It's a continent. Again, Google it.

They have killed thousands and caused the displacement of hundreds of thousands of people across a huge area.

And they are frequently in the news.

Your location is "Mars"? Yeh. Beginning to believe that. Complete lack of oxygen and largely toxic gas.

Well then lets be multi-cultural and bring them all over here and let them have their own schools and churches so we can show the world how not racist we are and let them all blend in with our working class!

I a liberal elitist in the meantime will hide in my big posh country house away from it all in my own little out of touch world and judge the racist working class English men who dare disapprove of them coming over here!

 

[HertsWolf]

People who post stuff criticising Islam on twitter get arrested whereas if Islamists over here chant the death of British people and shout for the support of Isis in the street the police do NOTHING. There was a guy not so long ago walking down Westminster waving an Isis flag and the police did fuck all and said he was allowed to do it. See the link below:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3150089/Man-parading-ISIS-flag-outside-Big-Ben.html

Go look all this stuff up and open your eyes!!

You must have hunted hard to find that, eh? It happened once. Maybe it's happened a few times. But it's not normal. There's no doubt there are ISIS sympathisers and there's no doubt that there is a problem with Islamist terrorists.

I'm actually beginning to think you are actually from ISIS as you are advocating violence, hatred and divisiveness....which is 100% aligned with the terrorists.