Final day match thread

[Chris FGR]

Did FGR ever apply for entry into the league and get rejected?

No.

My point was that the ability to progress through the leagues wasn't possible for many clubs. If you can't progress, you can't grow. As soon as routes opened up we climbed fairly rapidly from the Gloucestershire County league to the Conference.

There are plenty of other non league clubs with far bigger catchment areas then us who have/had the potential to be just as big if not bigger then the old boys club in the league, but they weren't given the chance to grow. What's happening now is things are gradually evening themselves out, as clubs start to settle at the level they should be at in a FAIR system.

Of course the BELTS still have bigger fan bases, due to the fact they were given the undeserved privilege of being unrelegatable league members for so long, but over time that will change too.

 

[BeesKnees]

No.

My point was that the ability to progress through the leagues wasn't possible for many clubs. If you can't progress, you can't grow. As soon as routes opened up we climbed fairly rapidly from the Gloucestershire County league to the Conference.

There are plenty of other non league clubs who have/had the potential to be just as big if not bigger then the old boys club in the league, but they weren't given the chance to grow. What's happening now is things are gradually evening themselves out, as clubs start to settle at the level they should be at in a FAIR system.

If you didn't apply then you didn't miss out. In those days the level you played at in the amateur scene was irrelevant to applying to enter the professional leagues, mainly because there was no formal amateur league ladder to climb so you did not need to be at the top of a pyramid to enter the football league.

Simply put you are trying to apply today's standards to the position 40 years ago and it does not work. There are thousands of clubs across the country who could make the same claim.

Things are not being evened out. Relegated league clubs are being provided with an ever increasing level of financial support. Making it harder and harder for wealthy owners to buy promotion for their club or for the bigger clubs that previously dropped to win their way back. That is the reality.

 

[AtaturkOzgutson]

You can say 'undeserved' but it only really holds up for teams who have finished in the bottom 2 places. Without knowing every league finish for every club, it's hard to say who that may or may not be.

There are obviously great examples, such as Torquay who would have been relegated something like 8 times had it been up or down. On the other hand, although Cambridge aren't in the Conference anymore, our league history cannot be called 'undeserved' because we'd never have gone down in that system. Poor example, but you can see what I mean.

After so long, an ideal situation (3 up, 3 down and less bottlenecking further down the pyramid) is still not in place but a lot of the examples of clubs who were knocking on the door from the amateur Conference but never made it in have either made it in the end, or like Enfield/Wealdstone and co, have destructed from the inside since. Ho hum.

 

[Chris FGR]

Virtually all clubs that applied got voted to be kept out. So it wasn't a fair system. It protected some, and stunted growth of others. If the system now is slightly unfair on BELTS, well I'd call that evening things out.

Quite a few of those teams didn't earn their places in the league to start with, they just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and then didn't earn the right to stay there, but still did which helped them stay ahead of what they view as tinpotters.

Now they finally have to earn their places, and they're suddenly finding it tougher but still whinge like they've got some god given right to be in the league.

 

[BeesKnees]

Virtually all clubs that applied got voted to be kept out. So it wasn't a fair system. It protected some, and stunted growth of others. If the system now is slightly unfair on BELTS, well I'd call that evening things out.

Yes they did, the point is they applied because they wanted to be a professional club. You did not and neither did the majority of non league clubs who enjoyed good crowds because watched local lads playing in a healthy local league with plenty of local rivalry. This was a sign of the times when being a professional footballer was not a lucrative career.

If you want to feel sorry for any non league clubs it should be those who finished top of the non league pyramid after it was introduced and were denied promotion.

Your prejudice blinds you. Can't you see that until your rich owner came along there was very little chance of you winning promotion to the league and holding on to it if you did.

 

[Chris FGR]

Your prejudice blinds you. Can't you see that until your rich owner came along there was very little chance of you winning promotion to the league and holding on to it if you did.

We were in this league for 12 years before DV took over. And we got quite close to the play offs in 07-08. If only we'd have kept Beesley...

And teams like Braintree, Dover and Histon a few years back have shown that it is possible without a money man.

 

[BeesKnees]

We were in this league for 12 years before DV took over. And we got quite close to the play offs in 07-08, if we kept Beesley...

And teams like Braintree, Dover and Histon a few years back have shown that it is possible without a money man.

I never said it wasn't possible without a money man.
Congrats on almost making the playoffs.

 

[Chris FGR]

I never said it wasn't possible without a money man.
Congrats on almost making the playoffs.

So you agree with a lot of these BELTS who have a superiority complex and look down on tinpotters despite having not properly earned their status for most of their histories, and now go on like they've got some god given right to still be league clubs?

Fair enough.

 

[BeesKnees]

So you agree with a lot of these BELTS who have a superiority complex and look down on tinpotters despite having not properly earned their status for most of their histories, and now go on like they've got some god given right to still be league clubs?

Fair enough.

Blimey,
I will take that as an admission that you lost the plot and decided to make up your own ending.

 

[Chris FGR]

Eh?

You're the one who went off on a tangent talking about us, when my point was more about the BELT v Tinpot bullshit which fans of traditional non league clubs have to put up with.

The only thing that makes these ex league clubs superior, is that they were lucky enough to get in the league and be unrelegatable. Now it's a meritocracy (there's a big word for you all, I can do them you know) clubs are where they are on actual merit.

 

[FGR Stroud]

I never said it wasn't possible without a money man.
Congrats on almost making the playoffs.

FGR are already in play offs.
Probably what you meant to say was that FGR might not reach Wembley , but the mood within the camp is that not only will FGR reach the final but win it.
Remember FGR have the same set of players that finished 2nd in table by 8 points and ran Cheltenham ragged for most of season.
We have a new manager who has an impressive CV and he has reinstalled self belief in team.
Dover, Braintree, Grimsby beware, FGR are again a winning team.

 

[BeesKnees]

FGR are already in play offs.
Probably what you meant to say was that FGR might not reach Wembley , but the mood within the camp is that not only will FGR reach the final but win it.
Remember FGR have the same set of players that finished 2nd in table by 8 points and ran Cheltenham ragged for most of season.
We have a new manager who has an impressive CV and he has reinstalled self belief in team.
Dover, Braintree, Grimsby beware, FGR are again a winning team.

I think you need to re-read the previous conversation and realise we were discussing FGR achievements before Dale Vince

 

[PaulHaddock]

You've played one game since he left and you won. Stop going OTT.

 

[BeesKnees]

Eh?

You're the one who went off on a tangent talking about us, when my point was more about the BELT v Tinpot bullshit which fans of traditional non league clubs have to put up with.

The only thing that makes these ex league clubs superior, is that they were lucky enough to get in the league and be unrelegatable. Now it's a meritocracy (there's a big word for you all, I can do them you know) clubs are where they are on actual merit.

Your argument was to claim you had equal historic right to being a league club. The point is you don't as you made no attempt to enter it, it is a pathetic attempt to rewrite history.

The only thing that makes you think ex-league clubs feel they are superior is your own inferiority complex

 

[yellow]

You've played one game since he left and you won. Stop going OTT.

Open bus tour through Nailsworth occurring as we speak!

 

[rudebwoyben]

Open bus tour through Nailsworth occurring as we speak!

That will take all of 90 seconds!

 

[The Jovial Forester]

Have you tried getting a bus in rural Gloucestershire?

 

[rudebwoyben]

Have you tried getting a bus in rural Gloucestershire?

Does that mean you'll have to wait a week before getting the return bus?

 

[slaphead]

We were in this league for 12 years before DV took over. And we got quite close to the play offs in 07-08. If only we'd have kept Beesley...

And teams like Braintree, Dover and Histon a few years back have shown that it is possible without a money man.

And but for two wins in the AGM Cup and a chairman on the Conference board you would (should) have been relegated, so one would say your rightful level is the Conf regional leagues. It's not called the FGR rule for nothing.

 

[The Jovial Forester]

Does that mean you'll have to wait a week before getting the return bus?

Or until we're in the champions league which might come sooner.

 

[GTFCfish]

Now they finally have to earn their places, and they're suddenly finding it tougher but still whinge like they've got some god given right to be in the league.

So you agree with a lot of these BELTS who have a superiority complex and look down on tinpotters despite having not properly earned their status for most of their histories, and now go on like they've got some god given right to still be league clubs?

Chris serious question here, who are these 'BELTS' that are constantly whinging and with a superiority complex against teams such as yourselves?
I genuinely cannot think of anyone except B2TF who goes over the top in discussions such as this, i don't see anyone on here saying our clubs do not deserve to be down here etc as we were all relegated at some point so who exactly is saying otherwise?

 

[appletablepenny]

You can say 'undeserved' but it only really holds up for teams who have finished in the bottom 2 places. Without knowing every league finish for every club, it's hard to say who that may or may not be.

There are obviously great examples, such as Torquay who would have been relegated something like 8 times had it been up or down. On the other hand, although Cambridge aren't in the Conference anymore, our league history cannot be called 'undeserved' because we'd never have gone down in that system. Poor example, but you can see what I mean.

After so long, an ideal situation (3 up, 3 down and less bottlenecking further down the pyramid) is still not in place but a lot of the examples of clubs who were knocking on the door from the amateur Conference but never made it in have either made it in the end, or like Enfield/Wealdstone and co, have destructed from the inside since. Ho hum.

Add Runcorn & Altrincham

 

[B2TF]

Football League.
Bye bye

Haha nice one.

And whatever happens we DON'T have to go to Halifax for a long long time, or maybe even ever again (hopefully) which is a massive bonus.

See you in 2017.

 

[Railway Blue]

Also, that's now 9 seasons since a top half finish.

Our time down here has seen us finish 17th in our first season, then 16th, 15th, 14th and now 13th...

That's slow but steady progress .

 

[B2TF]

No.

My point was that the ability to progress through the leagues wasn't possible for many clubs. If you can't progress, you can't grow. As soon as routes opened up we climbed fairly rapidly from the Gloucestershire County league to the Conference.

There are plenty of other non league clubs with far bigger catchment areas then us who have/had the potential to be just as big if not bigger then the old boys club in the league, but they weren't given the chance to grow. What's happening now is things are gradually evening themselves out, as clubs start to settle at the level they should be at in a FAIR system.

Of course the BELTS still have bigger fan bases, due to the fact they were given the undeserved privilege of being unrelegatable league members for so long, but over time that will change too.

You appear to be under the misapprehension common among the Mickey Mousers that non league clubs somehow had a "right" to entry into the Football League and that this was unjustly denied to them. The League was a club, like any other club, run BY and FOR the member clubs that were in it. Apart from the original founding members, all of those clubs were at some time or other elected into it by the existing members. Once in, they were member clubs too with all the rights that went with it.The member clubs were within their rights to elect or reject anyone they liked and it was nobody elses business. It was THEIR league. There was nothing "unfair", "unjust" about this, it was all in the rules of the "club". There was a Darlington fan I met recenlty who told me about a letter shown to him by a Kettering director at the time they'd had an application to join knocked back. It was from a director of Arsenal FC who thanked him for their letter asking for Arsenal's vote at the AGM, but explaining "we always vote for Darlington". They had every right in the world to do that and I'd take that system all day long over one that allows the possiblity that a nothing club like yours can to all intents and purposes buy its way in.

 

[Railway Blue]

Read a bit ago on those o so reliable message boards of ours that Dan Bradley and Ross Hannah had both signed pre-contract deals with us for next season BUT that was before Moyses stood down.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if both stay where they are now due to us changing manager.

The signs are relatively promising that Ross will remain with us for next season as he bought his small son the new Chester shirt yesterday and there is a great togetherness since Burr did one.

 

[The_Boss]

Chris FGR you surely need to check which clubs actually finished bottom of the FL for many seasons before election was abolished before trying to win this debate. It could well be that none of the BELTS ( whatever the fuck they are) actually spent much time at the bottom before their relegations.

 

[BeesKnees]

Chris FGR you surely need to check which clubs actually finished bottom of the FL for many seasons before election was abolished before trying to win this debate. It could well be that none of the BELTS ( whatever the fuck they are) actually spent much time at the bottom before their relegations.

You mean teams like Southport, Gateshead, Torquay, Chester, Hereford and Halifax

 

[veggieeater]

You mean teams like Southport, Gateshead and Halifax

Lol, think you mean Workington more like- were Gateshead ever in the league as was ? For B2TFs benefit were FC Halifax Town ever in the league

Anyway IMHO a pointless debate, what happened has happened, all have their own axes to grind, some axes must be pretty worn down by now.

There is a bottleneck in The National League to Div 2 which seems unreasonable, but TBH its made the National league a more exciting league, with the scrabble for promotion very tight, and a lot of former league teams bringing larger crowds to this league.

Looking forward to the play offs and with AP gone its looking a better place at FGR

 

[BeesKnees]

I agree. The original Gateshead were elected out in 1960. I think Barrow and Crewe were two of the worst offenders.