Forest Green

[Shotsfan1993]

No it doesn't. Spend what you can afford. Football has never been a level playing field. Get over it.

Coming from a Forest Green fan at the moment that's quite ironic!

 

[Chris FGR]

You really think shareholders are going to say they are going to send the club under.
It's the 3m black hole in your annual profits that should be your concern, not what is already owed to the shareholders as that is dead money, everyone knows FGR could never pay that money back.

Which is exactly why it isn't a big problem. I would say that the majority of our expenditure is on the playing side, and all but 1 of our squad's contracts expire at the end of the season, as our policy is now to only hand out 1 year deals with incentives/options. If the worst happened, we wouldn't be saddled with a lot of expensive contracts, and so could cut our cloth to a sustainable level quite easily.

 

[Harrier94]

YAWN

Is it just me that's tired of reading about FGR/Eastleigh/whoever else overspending? We seem to have the same arguments every 2-3 weeks with the same conclusion, FGR fans defend themselves while everyone else says it's unsustainable then personal insults are thrown around and the thread eventually gets locked.

It was funny at first but it's just boring now.

 

[Southern Shayman]

View attachment 2208

Doesn't sound like a major concern to me.

You do realise that "no intention" is very different to "can't"

On your accounts there is £5 million quid's worth of debt that can be called in at will. You best pray that Ecotricity doesn't go pop or the unfortunate happen to Vince... as you'd be fucked.

Also, 1.9 million in a 12 month period on salaries!! So to meet FFP you'd have to drop your wage level to 1/3 of what it is now.

 

[GodsGift]

If I was a FGR fan (which thank goodness, I'm not), my biggest concern would be how badly they've performed despite spunking all this money up the wall. Talk about under-achieving. They haven't even got close to winning the league, have they?

 

[Chris FGR]

We're up there now.

 

[Vanni]

YAWN

Is it just me that's tired of reading about FGR/Eastleigh/whoever else overspending? We seem to have the same arguments every 2-3 weeks with the same conclusion, FGR fans defend themselves while everyone else says it's unsustainable then personal insults are thrown around and the thread eventually gets locked.

It was funny at first but it's just boring now.

It's not possible but I would give your post a 100 likes if it was.

What everyone conveniently forgets is that 99% of lower divisions clubs (L1 downwards) all have someone behind the scenes putting his hand in his pocket. Some of these benefactors are well-known, while others are not mainly because they prefer to remain anonymous.

FWIW, I think FGR can sustain league football, just like Morecambe, Dagenham and Stanley are doing. There are also several clubs who only get circa 2000 home fans, and I reckon FGR can easily reach this figure were they to go up.

I predicted FGR to go up this year, and if I'm correct, then we'll soon see if they can or cannot sustain league footy.

 

[Jemfy]

If only there were some familiar example which we could draw parallels to. A small-ish club in a small catchment area with a generous owner who puts money in to the club due to having a thriving business with no worries about ever recalling the debt.

I mean it's not like a company throwing away millions every year in to a football club could ever get in to financial trouble and have to stop leaving the club holding on to contracts and expensive facilities to maintain... And even if that were to happen only people with the best interests of the club and the right know-how would step in... right?!?...

 

[MTFC_07]

FGR would face a battle to stay in the Conference without Vince's money, let alone sustain league football. Nailsworth has a population under 10,000 and they are pretty much maximising their support already (and that is with the promise of the largest budget every season and numerous ticket offers).

However, I think they are more sustainable than Eastleigh, who were being discussed on another thread. They have 900 odd season ticket holders because they cost just over £100 and they have a crowd of 4000 every so often because they give a ticket to people from the town and then count them in the attendance regardless of whether they attend or not. If the owner left, they would have to self generate revenue - how many of those 900 people would renew at a price of £300+ to watch worse quality football? And they could say goodbye to those monthly free games.

Unlike many, I don't have a major problem with either club, both club's fans have been friendly whenever we have played them. However, to say either of them are built on sustainable models doesn't wash with me.

 

[Jemfy]

It's not possible but I would give your post a 100 likes if it was.

What everyone conveniently forgets is that 99% of lower divisions clubs (L1 downwards) all have someone behind the scenes putting his hand in his pocket. Some of these benefactors are well-known, while others are not mainly because they prefer to remain anonymous.

FWIW, I think FGR can sustain league football, just like Morecambe, Dagenham and Stanley are doing. There are also several clubs who only get circa 2000 home fans, and I reckon FGR can easily reach this figure were they to go up.

I predicted FGR to go up this year, and if I'm correct, then we'll soon see if they can or cannot sustain league footy.

But isn't that why clubs keep getting in trouble year after year. OK they might not go under, and FL rule changes help to make sure the benefactors have to contract in the money in order to try to prevent things like this, but it still goes on.

The fact is the more clubs run sustainably, the less incentive there is to be unsustainable. The "everyone is doing it" arguement doesn't make it OK.

I doubt a struggling FGR in L2 would average circa 2,000 personally.

 

[Chris FGR]

YAWN

Is it just me that's tired of reading about FGR/Eastleigh/whoever else overspending? We seem to have the same arguments every 2-3 weeks with the same conclusion, FGR fans defend themselves while everyone else says it's unsustainable then personal insults are thrown around and the thread eventually gets locked.

It was funny at first but it's just boring now.

I'm sorry I didn't realise someone had a gun to your head and was forcing you to read this thread.

What did you think a thread started by a Grimsby fan called "Forest Green" would be about? Just don't click on it if you're not interested.

 

[Jemfy]

I'm sorry I didn't realise someone had a gun to your head and was forcing you to read this thread.

What did you think a thread started by a Grimsby fan called "Forest Green" would be about?

On that note, anyone got any numbers for what Grimsby are losing every season down here and how much Fenty is putting in?

 

[Vanni]

But isn't that why clubs keep getting in trouble year after year. OK they might not go under, and FL rule changes help to make sure the benefactors have to contract in the money in order to try to prevent things like this, but it still goes on.

The fact is the more clubs run sustainably, the less incentive there is to be unsustainable. The "everyone is doing it" arguement doesn't make it OK.

I doubt a struggling FGR in L2 would average circa 2,000 personally.

I'm not suggesting it is OK, as it's certainly not the best way to run a club, for obvious reasons. Still, I think FGR do get targeted a lot just because their benefactor is a high profile person and its common knowledge that he is the one sustaining the club. I would like to think however that some fans aren't so naive and instead look more closely at the club they support, rather than just point fingers at others. There's a very good chance they're also spending beyond their means or still in business just because someone is helping them financially.

 

[Pliny Harris]

Always interesting how chairmen treat their football clubs. Dale Vince is blowing his balloon up bigger and bigger until it bursts, while our board has undone the knot on ours and are watching as it flies around the room making farting noises until it collapses all wrinkly in a corner.

 

[Si Robin]

I'm not suggesting it is OK, as it's certainly not the best way to run a club, for obvious reasons. Still, I think FGR do get targeted a lot just because their benefactor is a high profile person and its common knowledge that he is the one sustaining the club. I would like to think however that some fans aren't so naive and instead look more closely at the club they support, rather than just point fingers at others. There's a very good chance they're also spending beyond their means or still in business just because someone is helping them financially.

I'd say they get targeted because they were heading to oblivion before Vince took over and now there's talk of them being in the Championship (from Vince I hasten to add). It's also the fact that they're prepared to change everything about themselves (badge, kit, even where they're based) to act as the advertising tool that they are for Ecotricity.

Then there's the mistaken belief that by moving and being promoted they will suddenly get loads of fans with absolutely no evidence to suggest they will. Where are these fans going to come from? And if they don't move, this is a club that struggled with nearly 1000 Cheltenham fans. What would they do with a Portsmouth in town?

I used to really like FGR, before Vince they reminded me of Cheltenham, battling with bigger clubs, but doing it the right way. Now they are just another boom or bust club. When/if Vince goes I can't help but see FGR go down the pan and that will be a crying shame in my eyes.

 

[Jemfy]

I'm not suggesting it is OK, as it's certainly not the best way to run a club, for obvious reasons. Still, I think FGR do get targeted a lot just because their benefactor is a high profile person and its common knowledge that he is the one sustaining the club. I would like to think however that some fans aren't so naive and instead look more closely at the club they support, rather than just point fingers at others. There's a very good chance they're also spending beyond their means or still in business just because someone is helping them financially.

They get targeted because of the amount their benefactor is putting in relative to their club size and non-subsidised income levels. The fact that playing budgets are increased by multiple integer factors rather than smaller percentages.

Crawley were targeted when they were splashing large amounts of cash and people weren't sure where it was coming from, again because of their traditional size and their historical income levels (though that was more sustainable given the catchment area for Crawley). And I don't even know who it is at Fleetwood who is/was pumping it in, but again they are/were targeted for it too.

A lot of the fans who do criticise can be hypocritical, that it's OK for their benefactor to put in X but not OK for someone else's to put in Y. That doesn't make either point right or wrong in itself, but it does beg the question, in the general opinion of most football fans, what level of financial endorsement is OK?

As much as fans should look at their own sides, it doesn't make pointing fingers wrong.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

It's only down to the FA's rules that they're not called Ecotricity Rovers - if they could change it, they would.

 

[Alty Pieman]

FGR,... the next Rushden & Diamonds for sure

 

[PaulHaddock]

On that note, anyone got any numbers for what Grimsby are losing every season down here and how much Fenty is putting in?

Think we owe Fenty about £4.5million, lost £78k last season despite Wembley etc, £230k year before, £450k year before that. Truly grim when I read that. We are similarly run to FGR, just with a lot less money being thrown around. I doubt Fenty would walk away from the club at this stage though. Only way we can ever make money is league football (cue the Wrexham fans pouring in with their 'fan-run club', as if we didn't know).

 

[Bluandwite]

Love the £32,887 charitable donation to 'Sustainability In Sport' if you read the accounts.

 

[genesimmons]

Looked at league 2 tables last night and accrington stanley are doing ok at moment, if they can survive league 2 then am sure forest green can. Forest green have been in confrence for a few year now, so they deserve promotion. Dont inow whats happened to yeovil, think they only 2nd side to go from confrence to championship and are now relegation fodder in league 2. Has backers pulled out?

 

[les.gtfc]

Looked at league 2 tables last night and accrington stanley are doing ok at moment, if they can survive league 2 then am sure forest green can. Forest green have been in confrence for a few year now, so they deserve promotion. Dont inow whats happened to yeovil, think they only 2nd side to go from confrence to championship and are now relegation fodder in league 2. Has backers pulled out?

I don't buy all this rubbish about teams deserving to be promoted because of the time they've been down here. Do Wrexham deserve to be promoted this season as they've been down here 7/8 seasons now, do we deserve to be promoted because this is our 6th season down here. No. The only way a team deserves promotion is if they get more points that all the other teams in a season. Anyway FGR haven't been down here for as long as a lot of people think, as they were officially relegated in 2009/10 before Salisbury were throw out for their misdemeanors.

 

[Si Robin]

I'm sorry, but FGR have been in the Conference for 17 years (this being their 18th season). They cannot be blamed for other clubs committing financial misdemeanours in the past. I may not like the way they are now, but how FGR kept themselves in the Conference for as long as they did was actually quite admirable.

I do agree though that length of time in a division is irrelevant to whether or not they deserve promotion.

 

[Pliny Harris]

I don't buy all this rubbish about teams deserving to be promoted because of the time they've been down here. Do Wrexham deserve to be promoted this season as they've been down here 7/8 seasons now, do we deserve to be promoted because this is our 6th season down here. No. The only way a team deserves promotion is if they get more points that all the other teams in a season. Anyway FGR haven't been down here for as long as a lot of people think, as they were officially relegated in 2009/10 before Salisbury were throw out for their misdemeanors.

Reprieved twice, bottom four four times.

I hope whoever finish 24th get reprieved this season.

 

[CFC2010]

Think we owe Fenty about £4.5million, lost £78k last season despite Wembley etc, £230k year before, £450k year before that. Truly grim when I read that. We are similarly run to FGR, just with a lot less money being thrown around. I doubt Fenty would walk away from the club at this stage though. Only way we can ever make money is league football (cue the Wrexham fans pouring in with their 'fan-run club', as if we didn't know).

That's not true though is it? There are clubs in this league who make a profit.

 

[Luke Imp]

Our income for the past year was over £1 million, add the extra income we'd get from being in League 2 and that could well double or more. Once we're in League 2 we'll need to comply with FFP but could still do alright if our playing budget dropped to below £1 million. That puts us on track I'd say.

Once the new multi sporting and business park complex is built, we'll be in a sports and business centre for the entire district. Vince is confident of getting planning permission and says a conservative estimate for the project to be complete is 5 years. We could easily be the English Hoffenheim.

Being ambitious and constantly looking to grow your club is better and will get you further then bumbling along like a lot of the stagnant old clubs are at this level and in the lower ends of the football league. You've got to speculate to accumulate. People might not like it, but we're going places.

Hardly worked, has it. I mean, this is throwing money around on epic proportions, Chris.

There's zero justification for that kind of overspend in this instance. Ironically enough, you're actually doing better now on a reduced, albeit still large, budget under Pennock than you were under Hockaday.

 

[Gibber_McGee]

That's not true though is it? There are clubs in this league who make a profit.

There are only two I know of; Wrexham and Chester - both supporter owned clubs.

To me the whole FGR thing seems pointless, and if I was a fan I'd be very concerned at the ridiculous debts being piled up. If they do get promoted I can't see how they will ever generate the crowds required for league 2, never mind league 1 or the championship, and with the league's FFP rules they won't be able to outspend everyone as they do now. Eventually they'd end up back in non-league. The likes of Crawley and Fleetwood will sooner or later too.

Also, how have they managed to not be promoted already with the amount they are spending? Ludicrous.

 

[EnglishRed]

Also, how have they managed to not be promoted already with the amount they are spending? Ludicrous.

Hockaday.

FGR could survive in L2 on their current crowds. And there are ways around FFP, which is why Vince is building up the facilities etc with the new ground. Like Fleetwood did. They'd struggle to go much higher though. Rushden are the precedent here.

 

[rudebwoyben]

Looked at league 2 tables last night and accrington stanley are doing ok at moment, if they can survive league 2 then am sure forest green can. Forest green have been in confrence for a few year now, so they deserve promotion. Dont inow whats happened to yeovil, think they only 2nd side to go from confrence to championship and are now relegation fodder in league 2. Has backers pulled out?

No big backers involved in Yeovil Town as far as I know. They actually did make it to the Championship on a very small budget.

 

[slaphead]

There are only two I know of; Wrexham and Chester - both supporter owned clubs.

To me the whole FGR thing seems pointless, and if I was a fan I'd be very concerned at the ridiculous debts being piled up. If they do get promoted I can't see how they will ever generate the crowds required for league 2, never mind league 1 or the championship, and with the league's FFP rules they won't be able to outspend everyone as they do now. Eventually they'd end up back in non-league. The likes of Crawley and Fleetwood will sooner or later too.

Also, how have they managed to not be promoted already with the amount they are spending? Ludicrous.

We made a small profit last year of about £30,000 and on track to do it again, but we vastly reduced our playing budget to achieve it. You can run a profit it seems, but you won't be competitive on the pitch and that's what matters to most fans. They would rather teams spunked their money chasing a dream than live within their means. Our recent financial history does make most of our fans a little more pragmatic though.