Heysel 30 years ago this week

[Toffee_Joe]

In his defence its a perfectly reasonable topic to post about, sharing his condolences. That's all the first post does. The fact that the only Liverpool fan to post on the topic has not paid his respects, has thrown around accusations of being bitter, talked about Hillsbrough and accused Juve of having shit fans is pretty disrespectful in my mind.

Anyway, it was a tragedy that I can't imagine. Going to the football should never end in that way. Those who were responsible both Liverpool fans, UEFA and those in charge of the ground should take some responsibility but we should all pay respect to those who died. We are all just football fans and it should only ever be a game.

 

[SALTIRE]

In his defence its a perfectly reasonable topic to post about, sharing his condolences. That's all the first post does. The fact that the only Liverpool fan to post on the topic has not paid his respects, has thrown around accusations of being bitter, talked about Hillsbrough and accused Juve of having shit fans is pretty disrespectful in my mind.

Anyway, it was a tragedy that I can't imagine. Going to the football should never end in that way. Those who were responsible both Liverpool fans, UEFA and those in charge of the ground should take some responsibility but we should all pay respect to those who died. We are all just football fans and it should only ever be a game.

I'm so sure he made this thread as he feels so passionately for what Juve went through, and of course not in the least bit, as a crass wind up to Liverpool fans on this board. Johnny is plainly using this anniversary as a chance to blame Liverpool (and by association, their fans today even though there is probably no one on here old enough to be directly involved in the events then), and its obviously still a very sore point that his Everton didn't get to play European football at a time when they were very strong. To me that is in very bad taste and why I have took issue with him in this thread.

What happened was a tragedy, undoubtedly, I remember looking at it on the tv as an 8-year-old at the time wondering what was going on without too much comprehension - how can you at that age? No one wants to see or personally feel that a family member will go to a football match will never come back, it must be utterly horrifying. It was a combination of unfortunate circumstances, UEFA playing the match in a decrepit old stadium, both sets of fans goading each other on, which most teams and supporters did back then, until inevitably trouble and tragedy ensued. I'm sure in some way UEFA will recognise what happened also at the CL Final next week - lets hope they do the commemoration justice unlike the farce they are having with FIFA just now.

 

[smat]

Btw speaking of which, the Anfield Wrap's stuff today is fantastic, and completely unflinching. In case anyone's actually interested.

 

[johnnytodd]

I'm so sure he made this thread as he feels so passionately for what Juve went through, and of course not in the least bit, as a crass wind up to Liverpool fans on this board. Johnny is plainly using this anniversary as a chance to blame Liverpool (and by association, their fans today even though there is probably no one on here old enough to be directly involved in the events then), and its obviously still a very sore point that his Everton didn't get to play European football at a time when they were very strong. To me that is in very bad taste and why I have took issue with him in this thread.

What happened was a tragedy, undoubtedly, I remember looking at it on the tv as an 8-year-old at the time wondering what was going on without too much comprehension - how can you at that age? No one wants to see or personally feel that a family member will go to a football match will never come back, it must be utterly horrifying. It was a combination of unfortunate circumstances, UEFA playing the match in a decrepit old stadium, both sets of fans goading each other on, which most teams and supporters did back then, until inevitably trouble and tragedy ensued. I'm sure in some way UEFA will recognise what happened also at the CL Final next week - lets hope they do the commemoration justice unlike the farce they are having with FIFA just now.

I remember it very well i was about 15 or so at the time, you turned it into a slanging match if you re read the thread. You couldn't resist in turning it into a ' picking on Liverpool' thread.

Please leave your disrespectful don't give a shit attitude out of this thread.

 

[SALTIRE]

I remember it very well i was about 15 or so at the time, you turned it into a slanging match if you re read the thread. You couldn't resist in turning it into a ' picking on Liverpool' thread.

Please leave your disrespectful don't give a shit attitude out of this thread.

Why did you post the thread here in the Premier League section when it happened on the European stage? Fishy...

Anyway I'm done with you and your nonsense and won't be posting any more in this thread as its pointless, you have your opinion on all this and I have mine and as a long time poster on here and TFF I don't want to risk a ban if you try to escalate this - so adieu!

 

[johnnytodd]

Why did you post the thread here in the Premier League section when it happened on the European stage? Fishy...

Anyway I'm done with you and your nonsense and won't be posting any more in this thread as its pointless, you have your opinion on all this and I have mine and as a long time poster on here and TFF I don't want to risk a ban if you try to escalate this - so adieu!

I don't think respecting 39 deaths at a football match is pointless thats where we differ. I'm glad your horrible/evil opinion is leaving the thread.

 

[Toffee_Joe]

I'm so sure he made this thread as he feels so passionately for what Juve went through, and of course not in the least bit, as a crass wind up to Liverpool fans on this board. Johnny is plainly using this anniversary as a chance to blame Liverpool (and by association, their fans today even though there is probably no one on here old enough to be directly involved in the events then), and its obviously still a very sore point that his Everton didn't get to play European football at a time when they were very strong. To me that is in very bad taste and why I have took issue with him in this thread.

What happened was a tragedy, undoubtedly, I remember looking at it on the tv as an 8-year-old at the time wondering what was going on without too much comprehension - how can you at that age? No one wants to see or personally feel that a family member will go to a football match will never come back, it must be utterly horrifying. It was a combination of unfortunate circumstances, UEFA playing the match in a decrepit old stadium, both sets of fans goading each other on, which most teams and supporters did back then, until inevitably trouble and tragedy ensued. I'm sure in some way UEFA will recognise what happened also at the CL Final next week - lets hope they do the commemoration justice unlike the farce they are having with FIFA just now.

I don't really care what he meant it as. I hope not as a wind up but if it was you shouldn't have reacted like that. Imagine if in a Hillsborough thread a Wednesday fan came in talking about Heysel and slagging off Liverpool fans. You would rightly be annoyed by it. For whatever reason 39 fans died at a football match and I think we as a community should be able to express the horror of that and share our respects. I am not going to argue with you any more. Just have a think would it have been too hard to just leave a respectful comment instead of attacking people?

 

[BlueBee]

Tbf I agree that I don't think Liverpool have ever really taken responsibility for what happened. They've run this whole 'respect and friendship' nonsense for the past few days....it's bollox...Juventus hate Liverpool. Imagine if the sun or the yorkshire police were trying to claim friendship with LFC around the Hillsborough date...The scousers wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

Liverpool fans were were arrested and imprisoned for Heysel, probably not enough but they were. Of course Juventus hate them but there was never a cover up around Heysel, some Liverpool fans are perhaps disingenuous but if somewhat meekly and lately, Liverpool accepted the blame for Heysel and were punished. Heysel was the result of football hooliganism and thuggery from Liverpool fans, Hillsborough wasn't but was framed that way by the police and media.

 

[smat]

Tbf I agree that I don't think Liverpool have ever really taken responsibility for what happened. They've run this whole 'respect and friendship' nonsense for the past few days....it's bollox...Juventus hate Liverpool. Imagine if the sun or the yorkshire police were trying to claim friendship with LFC around the Hillsborough date...The scousers wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

Liverpool who? The football club? Within two days, they banned themselves from European competition (acting quicker than the FA and UEFA did). Pretty clear they accepted responsibility. Unlike UEFA and the Belgian police, whose combined incompetence had a huge hand in the disaster. It's not exactly deserving of a pat on the back, but Liverpool didn't shy away from their part in it. There's this idea that Heysel has been swept under the rug, but I don't see that at all. Maybe it was when I was a kid but I don't remember - it was a huge deal 10 years ago when the two teams played each other, and it's a big deal today.

This thread is nauseating. I like giving LFC a kicking as much as the next man, but Munich chants, Hillsborough chants, the 'murderers' thing (apparently Liverpool fans themselves sang "2-0 to the murderers" in a Merseyside derby recently, and that Steaua 1986 thing is pretty unpleasant)... no matter who you support, it's fucking nasty to use people's deaths to wind up people who support another football team and, we can likely assume, had zero responsibility for what happened. They just support a different football team.

No wonder Liverpool fans, on the whole, don't want to partake in the thread.

Toffee_Joe I think you're being disingenuous at best if you really don't think the thread's a wind up. Read his posts. He's a c***.

 

[johnnytodd]

This thread is disgusting, how you have all turned into a slanging match is beyond me. Why not delete it and forget about it or even ban me for posting it, seems you can post anything other than Heysel.

non dimenticheremo mai il 39

 

[BlueBee]

I should have made that more clear....I don't think the fans have taken responsibility. The club have done what they had to do....they should leave it now....all this friendship bollox is just unnecessary, Juve and Liverpool will never be 'friends'.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

Everyone always sort've posts that we never remember, nor act on these disasters, but I think the UK has and has very well.

Stadiums totally re-designed, Ticketing and segregation both excellent, stewarding and police much better than previously, fences removed, Wooden stands gone.....lots of laws, regulations, rules implemented.

the 80's was as such a terrible time in terms of football disasters, but it was also an enormous turning point in the English game where suddenly fan safety was finally taken into account and things changed over here.

it is a shame it takes deaths for that to happen, but at least the deaths have led to a lot of improvements to fan safety at games.

 

[johnnytodd]

Liverpool who? The football club? Within two days, they banned themselves from European competition (acting quicker than the FA and UEFA did). Pretty clear they accepted responsibility. Unlike UEFA and the Belgian police, whose combined incompetence had a huge hand in the disaster. It's not exactly deserving of a pat on the back, but Liverpool didn't shy away from their part in it. There's this idea that Heysel has been swept under the rug, but I don't see that at all. Maybe it was when I was a kid but I don't remember - it was a huge deal 10 years ago when the two teams played each other, and it's a big deal today.

This thread is nauseating. I like giving LFC a kicking as much as the next man, but Munich chants, Hillsborough chants, the 'murderers' thing (apparently Liverpool fans themselves sang "2-0 to the murderers" in a Merseyside derby recently, and that Steaua 1986 thing is pretty unpleasant)... no matter who you support, it's fucking nasty to use people's deaths to wind up people who support another football team and, we can likely assume, had zero responsibility for what happened. They just support a different football team.

No wonder Liverpool fans, on the whole, don't want to partake in the thread.

Toffee_Joe I think you're being disingenuous at best if you really don't think the thread's a wind up. Read his posts. He's a c***.

thats not nice big man, the first post was as genuine as it gets, it was degraded there after by you and your kin, with one or 2 exceptions..........i am simply paying respects to 39 Italian fans who were murdered at a football match whether or not you like it or not it was Liverpool fans that were to blame could have been any club

 

[johnnytodd]

Everyone always sort've posts that we never remember, nor act on these disasters, but I think the UK has and has very well.

Stadiums totally re-designed, Ticketing and segregation both excellent, stewarding and police much better than previously, fences removed, Wooden stands gone.....lots of laws, regulations, rules implemented.

the 80's was as such a terrible time in terms of football disasters, but it was also an enormous turning point in the English game where suddenly fan safety was finally taken into account and things changed over here.

it is a shame it takes deaths for that to happen, but at least the deaths have led to a lot of improvements to fan safety at games.

yes but it also took the game away from it's core fanbase and is now run and watched by different class of person.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

Well that is other aspect of the game which sadly crept in........that is something we cannot change now its impossible

 

[Craig]

This thread is full of disturbing revelations, I mean I had no idea Salty was a Liverpool fan.

 

[BlueBee]

I wonder if we'll ever get an apology for being blamed for this....doubt it.

 

[Craig]

A reference to the Scottish flag?


Well now this post just looks strangely out of place, Whitechapel.

 

[Mr.Andrews]

even i think johnnyknob is being a bit of a prick here and id sooner lick a cats sphincter than side with liverpool absolutely no doubt about that.

 

[Modernist]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2005/apr/03/newsstory.sport

Phil Neal
Then: Liverpool captain, 34
Now: Merseyside Radio commentator

I'd rather forget that night. It was an ordeal. But, Jamie, why should I help you out? I'm helping you pay your mortgage [by talking to you about Heysel]. When people ask me for my view, they usually have to pay for it. You're asking for my help for nothing. To pay your mortgage, Jamie. I mean, what do you want from me?

I just thought that as the captain of Liverpool football club on that night at Heysel it would be good to hear your view?

Yes but what do you want from me? If I talk to you for a few minutes, then I'm helping you pay your mortgage and what am I getting in return? Do you know what I mean?

Well, I have been to Italy and talked with some of the families of the victims and they say that the trophy should be given back by Juventus to commemorate what happened.

About Juventus? Why are you asking me? Why are you asking someone on the Liverpool side? Juventus made amends very soon. Ask them ... Jamie I'm helping you pay your mortgage. People who want my views pay.

I'm sorry, but everyone else I have spoken to has ...

Great. So you've spoken to people, you've got your views. You've got your Liverpool view, but if you want mine for free, well people pay for them.





What a ****

 

[smat]

^^ yeah I'd read that before. Think the following year he did a proper interview, but fucking hell.

 

[johnnytodd]

 

[Toffee_Joe]

Liverpool who? The football club? Within two days, they banned themselves from European competition (acting quicker than the FA and UEFA did). Pretty clear they accepted responsibility. Unlike UEFA and the Belgian police, whose combined incompetence had a huge hand in the disaster. It's not exactly deserving of a pat on the back, but Liverpool didn't shy away from their part in it. There's this idea that Heysel has been swept under the rug, but I don't see that at all. Maybe it was when I was a kid but I don't remember - it was a huge deal 10 years ago when the two teams played each other, and it's a big deal today.

This thread is nauseating. I like giving LFC a kicking as much as the next man, but Munich chants, Hillsborough chants, the 'murderers' thing (apparently Liverpool fans themselves sang "2-0 to the murderers" in a Merseyside derby recently, and that Steaua 1986 thing is pretty unpleasant)... no matter who you support, it's fucking nasty to use people's deaths to wind up people who support another football team and, we can likely assume, had zero responsibility for what happened. They just support a different football team.

No wonder Liverpool fans, on the whole, don't want to partake in the thread.

Toffee_Joe I think you're being disingenuous at best if you really don't think the thread's a wind up. Read his posts. He's a c***.

Initially the thread didn't read as a wind up at least to me. Liverpool weren't even mentioned until Saltire came on talking about Johnny being bitter. To be honest I didn't recognise Johnny as a poster before this thread so he may well be a bit of a twat but at first glance this read didn't look like a windup to me.

Most Liverpool fans I know, the ones who go to the games, accept Liverpool's responsibility and wouldn't have come into a thread on the attack. The issue I have is with Saltire who didn't take the issue seriously and seemed to use this issue to attack other posters; bitter, Hillsborough, Juve fans are shite etc. I have no interest tarnishing all Liverpool fans or the club with the same brush on this issue. I am sure Saltire didn't understand/appreciate what happened and that explains his behaviour.

I am going to stay away from this now as its getting away from the initial purpose, I hope, of the thread.

RIP to those 39 who went to watch a European Cup Final and never went home.

 

[Richard Cranium]

First of all RIP to all the victims that day.

But what a pathetic thread, Made for no reason other than to have digs at Liverpool fans about it.

 

[HertsWolf]

Surely it is up to the individual as to how they pay their respects to anyone. When fans chant "Stand up if you support X!" , do people somehow feel disloyal if they don't stand up at that moment? Whether it is Heysel, Hillsborough, a terrorist attack, a fire or a car crash there are usually some who are innocent victims, some who bear direct culpability and some who bear some form of indirect responsibility.
By all means post your respects and your perceptions of blame, even your taunts, but kindly allow others to determine if, how, when and where to pay their respects and if, how, when and where to consider blame and judge others.
The internet provides an opportunity to say whatever you like; but wisdom suggest you don't have to.

 

[johnnytodd]

Unbelievable that some people still see the initial post as a dig at Liverpool. As others have said it was a Liverpool fan who started the slanging match. Maybe i should of refrained from lowering myself to their level.

 

[Red]

Good to see that you aren't engaging in a petty point-scoring exercise over a horrific accident.

Oh.

I used to be on another football forum before I discovered our old forum (whatever it was called). The moderators were mostly Everton fans and in addition to allowing other members to call the Liverpool supporters on the forum things like murderers and wall pushers, they engaged in it themselves. The owner of the site also supported Everton and when I contacted her to let her know what was happening her attitude was more or less stfu complaining. Of course the vast majority of Everton fans are decent human beings but when a shower of c*** like that set a partisan forum up it's not a pleasant place to be.

Johnny, I'm hoping that after reading from the feedback youv'e had on this thread you'll do the decent thing and wind your neck in.

 

[johnnytodd]

I used to be on another football forum before I discovered our old forum (whatever it was called). The moderators were mostly Everton fans and in addition to allowing other members to call the Liverpool supporters on the forum things like murderers and wall pushers, they engaged in it themselves. The owner of the site also supported Everton and when I contacted her to let her know what was happening her attitude was more or less stfu complaining. Of course the vast majority of Everton fans are decent human beings but when a shower of c*** like that set a partisan forum up it's not a pleasant place to be.

Liverpool fans in 'we're the victims' shocker , anyway this is about HEYSEL respect not point scoring,unless your that Saltire tit of course.

 

[Red]

Victims? I don't think it's unreasonable to take umbrage with other people calling you murderers and wall pushers. Had it involved fans of another English club you wouldn't be labeling them victims would you? You're not trying to point score? It's looking to me like you're the only one here who believes that, but keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Only a complete and utter fucking cretin would try and point score about an incident in which many people lost their lives, but that's definitely NOT you is it? By the way were you a moderator on that forum (can't remember its name). You'd have been exactly what they were looking for.

Regarding the topic, yeah the people who died should be remembered and some Liverpool fans should take some of the blame. Some Juventus fans were to blame in part too as were UEFA for staging the final in a stadium that was actually falling apart.

It just looks like a point scoring exercise when you post it, not because you're an Everton fan, but because a lot of your posts before this thread exhibited petty Liverpool Fc related stuff.