How have your politics changed?

[Captain Scumbag]

Been a Tory c*** for as long as I can remember.

 

[Veggie Legs]

I voted for the last option because, while I don't think my views have really changed, as I've got older I feel less certain about things than I used to. Reading about politics on twitter (especially things that Ian_Wrexham tweets) just makes me think that I don't understand anything, although I'm sure that's partly the nature of the medium.

 

[Abertawe]

I voted for the last option because, while I don't think my views have really changed, as I've got older I feel less certain about things than I used to. Reading about politics on twitter (especially things that Ian_Wrexham tweets) just makes me think that I don't understand anything, although I'm sure that's partly the nature of the medium.

The art of learning is understanding you know nothing imo. We do have some well read dudes on here though.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I voted for the last option because, while I don't think my views have really changed, as I've got older I feel less certain about things than I used to. Reading about politics on twitter (especially things that Ian_Wrexham tweets) just makes me think that I don't understand anything, although I'm sure that's partly the nature of the medium.

Sorry. What sort of things? A lot of what I tweet is intra-left-wing beef and largely incomprehensible to the outside. That said, I assume my audience knows loads more about politics than me cos I'm still learning - which is a deficiency on my part.

 

[Veggie Legs]

Sorry. What sort of things? A lot of what I tweet is intra-left-wing beef and largely incomprehensible to the outside. That said, I assume my audience knows loads more about politics than me cos I'm still learning - which is a deficiency on my part.

Yeah, that stuff mostly. Plenty of thought-provoking things too so it's not all bad

 

[Veggie Legs]

The art of learning is understanding you know nothing imo. We do have some well read dudes on here though.

Definitely this. I don't post much in this section but it's always an interesting read.

 

[johnnytodd]

Voted Labour all my life until they sold the country to immigrants.

 

[Renegade]

I don't think my politics have changed much in the past 5-10 years, I have always leant left and libertarian on the political axis, but I've definitely become more understanding of the other perspectives over time. I didn't have any time for the opposition growing up, but the more informed I've become the more I can appreciate the morals I don't live by that other people do. I think that's as much down to psychology and philosophy than it is to history and current affairs. I struggle to get angry over opposing views, I can usually rationalise how they have come to a different conclusion unless they are overtly bigoted (and even then I can see how they might be powerless to bigotry given their environment) and I can see the blatant hypocrisy on both sides, which probably annoys me more than abhorrent views. I reckon I'm about the same, just less tribal.

Definitely in agreement with Abertawe and Veggie Legs about certainty in politics. I question my stances every day. Not as informed as I'd like to be, definitely not at the level of most of this politics forum, but there's only so much time you can devote to reading history and politics if you don't have a related occupation (or you're not a layabout ).

 

[SALTIRE]

Voted Labour all my life until they sold the country to immigrants.

And switched to a raging Tory? Can't understand that tbh.

 

[Jockney]

And switched to a raging Tory? Can't understand that tbh.

Probably a bit more understandable given Labour has always been in an uneasy alliance with workers and the traditional left. They were the kinder face of social democracy, never a fully-fledged workers' party. Similarly, those workers who supported the Labour party and were unionised were never all in solidarity with the struggle of other people within the working class.

 

[Jockney]

I don't think my politics have changed much in the past 5-10 years, I have always leant left and libertarian on the political axis, but I've definitely become more understanding of the other perspectives over time. I didn't have any time for the opposition growing up, but the more informed I've become the more I can appreciate the morals I don't live by that other people do. I think that's as much down to psychology and philosophy than it is to history and current affairs. I struggle to get angry over opposing views, I can usually rationalise how they have come to a different conclusion unless they are overtly bigoted (and even then I can see how they might be powerless to bigotry given their environment) and I can see the blatant hypocrisy on both sides, which probably annoys me more than abhorrent views. I reckon I'm about the same, just less tribal.

This sounds like disengagement has lead to a total abstraction of material reality and I'm not sure where you can go politically with this, even if I relate to the instinct. Unless you completely shelter yourself from the world (and tbf even if you do) there will come a time when you will have to make decisions about things. Epistemological certainty is impossible, and trying to achieve that rationally I think only leads to paralysis.

 

[johnnytodd]

And switched to a raging Tory? Can't understand that tbh.

i know all thanks to your heroes Blair & co

 

[SALTIRE]

i know all thanks to your heroes Blair & co

It's more to do with a weakness in your personality I'd say. Michael Gove syndrome.

 

[Renegade]

This sounds like disengagement has lead to a total abstraction of material reality and I'm not sure where you can go politically with this, even if I relate to the instinct. Unless you completely shelter yourself from the world (and tbf even if you do) there will come a time when you will have to make decisions about things. Epistemological certainty is impossible, and trying to achieve that rationally I think only leads to paralysis.

I still have my politics, that I defend and vote in alignment with. I agree that in terms of political engagement my somewhat deterministic view of people probably had a castrating effect, but I'm not paralysed to the point where I can't make decisions about things. I've chosen (to me) more tangible ways of having a positive impact with the constraints of my career/interests for now, but I could see myself becoming more politically engaged in the future. I could still do with some time to flesh out my views as well. Probably seems a strange view to someone in the trenches.

 

[Jockney]

I still have my politics, that I defend and vote in alignment with. I agree that in terms of political engagement my somewhat deterministic view of people probably had a castrating effect, but I'm not paralysed to the point where I can't make decisions about things. I've chosen (to me) more tangible ways of having a positive impact with the constraints of my career/interests for now, but I could see myself becoming more politically engaged in the future. I could still do with some time to flesh out my views as well. Probably seems a strange view to someone in the trenches.

That makes more sense. I think we are all in the same boat to a certain degree.

 

[Red]

My dad's interest in politics is by and large the reason I got interested in it. He never tried to indoctrinate us or anything, just explained the iniquities of the world in a measured way and left us with it. My politics haven't changed since then, although I think I've become a bit more pragmatic and less idealistic. As an example, I like Corbyn's policies, but I realise that Labour will not win an election with him as their leader, so I'd settle for a more centrist (not centre) leader. For me the left / right dichotomy is still relevant.

 

[Abertawe]

My dad's interest in politics is by and large the reason I got interested in it. He never tried to indoctrinate us or anything, just explained the iniquities of the world in a measured way and left us with it. My politics haven't changed since then, although I think I've become a bit more pragmatic and less idealistic. As an example, I like Corbyn's policies, but I realise that Labour will not win an election with him as their leader, so I'd settle for a more centrist (not centre) leader. For me the left / right dichotomy is still relevant.

I have issue with this and it comes down to making the economy work for the people over big business as it currently does and would do under a 'centrist' leader.

 

[Red]

I have issue with this and it comes down to making the economy work for the people over big business as it currently does and would do under a 'centrist' leader.

I'll clarify. What I mean is, I'd take a leader who is a bit more to the centre, but not centre over JC. I don't want a Tory plan B like Blair and Miliband though and I hope there's at least a tacit acknowledgment in the PLP that given the dramatic rise in membership that the party has to realise that another neo liberal apologist is not wanted

Ideally, like you I'd like a leader who puts people before profits. The problem with JC is that like his predecessor, he lacks charisma and a statesman like persona. Unfortunately, ours is a country where personality is as important, if not more so, than policies.

 

[Red]

To clarify further, in fact probably change what I said. I'd like a leader as left wing as JC, but not JC. I've got nowt against JC's policies, It's just his mild mannered and quiet persona (which personally I like) does not come across as prime ministerial.

 

[Abertawe]

Doesn't deserve it's own thread but look how batshit crazy this independent running for Stoke Central is

https://abolishmcrm.com/party-constitution-and-manifesto/

 

[Abertawe]

To clarify further, in fact probably change what I said. I'd like a leader as left wing as JC, but not JC. I've got nowt against JC's policies, It's just his mild mannered and quiet persona (which personally I like) does not come across as prime ministerial.

I wouldn't disagree but I'm confident he'll be a different animal come a general election campaign.

 

[Techno Natch]

Doesn't deserve it's own thread but look how batshit crazy this independent running for Stoke Central is

https://abolishmcrm.com/party-constitution-and-manifesto/

Reads like a piss take.

Edit: I posted that after a few points now I've finished it.... Pretty funny.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

I see politics as about the exercise of power and governance. Where normatively I want power to reside, and where I think it is actually located are not the same things.

I have been pretty constant in terms of my wider philosophical underpinning, viewing what is right and wrong in terms of political principles pretty consistently. However, as I go through different stages of life, and gain different experiences and stand in different shoes then my views of particular policies has changed.

Because I am focused more on the exercise of power and authority I do not view the political world through the traditional left-right prism of the 1789 national assembly. Rather I view it as a circle, so authoritarian or totalitarian on the left or right are still authoritarian or totalitarian to me.

 

[johnnytodd]

I see politics as about the exercise of power and governance. Where normatively I want power to reside, and where I think it is actually located are not the same things.

I have been pretty constant in terms of my wider philosophical underpinning, viewing what is right and wrong in terms of political principles pretty consistently. However, as I go through different stages of life, and gain different experiences and stand in different shoes then my views of particular policies has changed.

Because I am focused more on the exercise of power and authority I do not view the political world through the traditional left-right prism of the 1789 national assembly. Rather I view it as a circle, so authoritarian or totalitarian on the left or right are still authoritarian or totalitarian to me.

Welcome to UKIP brother.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

Welcome to UKIP brother.

The words power and UKIP do not usually associate with each other.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

The words power and UKIP do not usually associate with each other.

Depends if it follows the word 'white' or not.

 

[The Mustard Tiger]

My view on politics is that I don't care as much about it. There's too many ridiculous viewpoints on both the right and left so I've just given up. As long as myself, my family, loved ones, friends and my cat Frank are okay then I'm happy.

 

[Alty]

My view on politics is that I don't care as much about it. There's too many ridiculous viewpoints on both the right and left so I've just given up. As long as myself, my family, loved ones, friends and my cat Frank are okay then I'm happy.

I'm heading this way (not that I have strong feelings on Frank).

Politics is basically about creating the conditions for orderly governance of your society. But it's not the be all and end all of life. People who dedicate their lives to political causes and genuinely despise their "enemies" baffle me. I mean, if you're trying to dislodge Kim Jong-Un, then I can understand it more. But if you get to a point where you're willing to smear journalists/politicians from mainstream British political parties, I genuinely think you've lost the plot.

I suppose generally I've fall into the old "liberal who's been mugged by reality" situation. I still think of myself as a social democrat: I believe in a progressive taxation system and think our inheritance tax laws in particular are wrong; I believe in public ownership of a few key industries including energy and transport; I think we need to counter racism, homophobia and other forms of discrimination; and I believe in free speech. However, I've abandoned the unworkable ideas I had in my youth about 70% top rates of income tax, open borders, the EU being a force for good and (most embarrassingly) my moral relativist view of less tolerant societies/cultures.

In my own little part of East London I'm regularly subjected to the ramblings of far-left idiots who don't have a clue what they're talking about. But then I know I could move elsewhere and find myself hearing wild free-marketeers or racists banging on about their causes and I'd find it equally frustrating. Hence trying to take a step back and tune all the nonsense out wherever possible...

 

[Captain Scumbag]

Your conversion to proper Tory was progressing well until your stay at Castle Scumbag last summer. With hindsight it’s obvious that invite was premature. In some respects – joining the hunt, beating the help, etc. – you fitted in remarkably well. In other respects it was clearly too much too soon. You visibly struggled when you learnt the wine goblets were made from the skulls of dead refugee children, and your participation in the Nazi-themed orgy that ended Saturday’s proceedings was, at best, grudging.

Can't rush these things, I guess. We’ll try again one day. In the meantime, dull centrist with hints of nice Tory will just have to do.

 

[Jockney]

Your conversion to proper Tory was progressing well until your stay at Castle Scumbag last summer. With hindsight it’s obvious that invite was premature. In some respects – joining the hunt, beating the help, etc. – you fitted in remarkably well. In other respects it was clearly too much too soon. You visibly struggled when you learnt the wine goblets were made from the skulls of dead refugee children, and your participation in the Nazi-themed orgy that ended Saturday’s proceedings was, at best, grudging.

Can't rush these things, I guess. We’ll try again one day. In the meantime, dull centrist with hints of nice Tory will just have to do.

I can't help but picture Castle Scumbag as something like Wragby Hall, where Scumbag invites his cadre of misfit intellectuals to discuss the "life of the mind" and pontificate on the problem of the industrialised working man.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall...