Ipswich Town v Brentford

[TractorBoys]

Judge gone off on a stretcher after 2 minutes, sounds like Hyam should probably have seen red.

That not I can see this fixture mattering.

Drab 0-0.

 

[TractorBoys]

A goal and a man down (Hyam second yellow). Season clearly going out on a whimper...

 

[Tom_ITFC]

I don't like to blame the ref but he is having a shocker!

Hyams first yellow was a good challenge I thought (injury was unfortunate but football is a physical sport). Regardless, Hyam is a knob for getting the second.

Foul on Skuse for the goal as well.

Just an excuse for MM on the other hand.

 

[mpmbee]

Lol you must be joking

http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/brentford/10236739/ipswich-1-3-brentford

Fucking awful challenge and it sounds as though the ref bottled sending off Verney for another terrible tackle later in the game.

 

[Tom_ITFC]

I'm still not sure. It's a sliding tackle, both feet on floor and he gets the ball. But I agree I thought Varney should have been sent off. How McGoldrick didn't get booked as well I'll never know!

How are Brentford as low as they are? They look fantastic! I'm guessing you've had plenty of mistakes at the back, just like today?

Our form in 2016 has been woeful and if nothing is done soon rather than later, we'll be chasing survival next season.

 

[TractorBoys]

Knudsen sounds like the only positive out of that game for us. Interesting (worrying) summer ahead.

 

[toshj]

It wasn't two footed, but flying into that tackle at such short distance from the opposing player is intended to hurt and injure - it was wreckless, wild and overly physical, and was wholly intentional, it actually reminded me quite a bit of the Shawcross tackle on Ramsey a few seasons back; designed to injure.

Our first game of the season and a Mick McCarthy Ipswich side crunched Jota and put him out for 6 months, and today Hyam breaks Judge's leg... with Varney's tackle a potential leg breaker. Are Ipswich players on injury-causing bonuses? It's such a low and shadowy tactic to encourage the players to go out and injure the opposition's better players.

Hyam has basically fucked Judge's career. He was likely to be included in Ireland's squad for the Euros and would have likely secured a bigger money move this summer which would have set his family up for life. Now he missess the Euros and faces a long period of rehabilitation.

 

[mpmbee]

I'm still not sure. It's a sliding tackle, both feet on floor and he gets the ball. But I agree I thought Varney should have been sent off. How McGoldrick didn't get booked as well I'll never know!

How are Brentford as low as they are? They look fantastic! I'm guessing you've had plenty of mistakes at the back, just like today?

Our form in 2016 has been woeful and if nothing is done soon rather than later, we'll be chasing survival next season.

The challenge was totally reckless, as clear a red as you will see.

 

[MagpieBee]

It wasn't two footed, but flying into that tackle at such short distance from the opposing player is intended to hurt and injure - it was wreckless, wild and overly physical, and was wholly intentional, it actually reminded me quite a bit of the Shawcross tackle on Ramsey a few seasons back; designed to injure.

Our first game of the season and a Mick McCarthy Ipswich side crunched Jota and put him out for 6 months, and today Hyam breaks Judge's leg... with Varney's tackle a potential leg breaker. Are Ipswich players on injury-causing bonuses? It's such a low and shadowy tactic to encourage the players to go out and injure the opposition's better players.

Hyam has basically fucked Judge's career. He was likely to be included in Ireland's squad for the Euros and would have likely secured a bigger money move this summer which would have set his family up for life. Now he missess the Euros and faces a long period of rehabilitation.

Agreed. Hopefully he can find a good move still, or the club backs him like they have other players with long term injuries and gives him a new contract (which we should do anyway)

 

[mpmbee]

It wasn't two footed, but flying into that tackle at such short distance from the opposing player is intended to hurt and injure - it was wreckless, wild and overly physical, and was wholly intentional, it actually reminded me quite a bit of the Shawcross tackle on Ramsey a few seasons back; designed to injure.

Our first game of the season and a Mick McCarthy Ipswich side crunched Jota and put him out for 6 months, and today Hyam breaks Judge's leg... with Varney's tackle a potential leg breaker. Are Ipswich players on injury-causing bonuses? It's such a low and shadowy tactic to encourage the players to go out and injure the opposition's better players.

Hyam has basically fucked Judge's career. He was likely to be included in Ireland's squad for the Euros and would have likely secured a bigger money move this summer which would have set his family up for life. Now he missess the Euros and faces a long period of rehabilitation.

McCarthy has said it wasn't even a foul..

 

[Tom_ITFC]

Now you lot are going down the route of accusing our players of intending to injure.
Did you see the Shawcross challenge? Not intent to injure, he was visibly distressed at what had happened. Pathetic to make such accusations really.

I don't even recall the Jota one being bad either. We haven't injured any other players so just unfortunate they were both against you

 

[toshj]

Now you lot are going down the route of accusing our players of intending to injure.
Did you see the Shawcross challenge? Not intent to injure, he was visibly distressed at what had happened. Pathetic to make such accusations really.

I don't even recall the Jota one being bad either. We haven't injured any other players so just unfortunate they were both against you

Not sure why it's pathetic - Shawcross knew he was going to injure Ramsay, but he wasn't concerned as he wanted to get the ball. Same with Hyam today, he knew he was going to crash into Judge and, unsurprisingly to everyone in the ground, has broken the poor lad's leg. There is no way a professional footballer with a fair amount of experience is not going to know he's about to injure a player after flying into a tackle, putthing his full weight into it, from point blank range. But he didn;t care, he wanted the ball, and therefore it's a dangerous tackle and he deserved the attention he subsequently received from our players for the rest of the half.

If almost everyone within a 20,000 person crowd, and all the commentators and pundits agreeing it's a red, then it's likely to be a red. McCarthy has previously indicated how much he loves watching Hyam crunch into tackles, and therefore it's not outside the realms of logic to come to the conclusion that McCarthy encourages his sides to tackle in such a manner.

I'll see if I can find the photo still of the Jota injury, but Douglas is nowhere near the ball (the balls is long gone) and is crunching down on Jota's ankle. He crocked him and Jota was in a moon boot for the next three months. There's no smoke without fire, and we've been on the end of some shitty tackles from Ipswich players this season.

 

[Aaron-Bcfc]

Feel for Judge but that was an excellent tackle. Just unfortunate.

 

[Tom_ITFC]

Don't be silly, the Shawcross tackle was a genuine 50/50 but Ramsey was too quick for him. If you're suggesting 50/50s should be condemned when then one comes out injured then that's just mad.

The Hyam one was also a 50/50 and if you slow it down, Hyam goes in in front of Judge. The reason there is a break is because Judge stretches for the ball and is caught. I'll get a still image and show what I mean. It was a genuine attempt to get the ball and not aimed at the player. Football is a physical sport and unfortunately players do get injured.

I'm not a fan of the bloke but I highly doubt Mick sends out the players to injure the opposition. His football is dire to watch but his respect to the game is second to none.
What he meant from your quote is that he likes his players to get stuck in which is surely not a bad thing in football?

At first, most Town fans around me didn't feel it was a foul either at first (don't know their views now). I stand by it, it was not late and was a genuine attempt to get the ball. I recall one of your players did a similar thing in the second half in a similar area and the ball smashed into the dug outs. Full body weight was also put into that challenge but the difference was that our player backed away and no collision occurred. Had he gone in like Judge, an injury for EITHER player may have happened. But it didn't and the successful challenge is forgotten

 

[SamScfc]

I know I've said this before but I can't believe Ipswich fans want McCarthy out, where do you expect to be? Your budget isn't big enough to be challenging with the likes of Sheff Weds, Derby, basically all the teams above you. He took over a club destined for L1.

 

[Tom_ITFC]

I know I've said this before but I can't believe Ipswich fans want McCarthy out, where do you expect to be? Your budget isn't big enough to be challenging with the likes of Sheff Weds, Derby, basically all the teams above you. He took over a club destined for L1.

We love him for the fact he saved us and up to last season (well December 14). From Jan 15 it's been downhill. Favourites played week in week out even if they are playing poorly, square pegs in round holes, would rather not lose than win, the fact he enjoys annoying the Town fans and the list could go on really.

For me, now would be the right time to go for him. He'd still be held highly at the club but everybody knows he's not going to take us further forward! Someone described it as a relationship that ends with friendship, and I feel that fits it perfectly. I don't want it to go badly but I can see it being a sour end for MM.

Today for example, he has finally made changes to the back four but instead of dropping a weak link, he drops Smith who has been our best defender all season (3rd in the player of the season voting) instead of Berra who gave away the third goal today.
Bart won player of the year tonight but Mick dropped him because his dad died (fair enough) but wasn't seen until Gerken was injured despite many errors costing goals.

 

[toshj]

The reason there is a break is because Judge stretches for the ball and is caught.

The reason his leg is broken is because Hyam throws his entire weight into the challenge from point blank range, yet his leading leg doesn't win the ball. His leading leg is still off the ground when his knee clatters into Judge and breaks his leg. He wins the ball with his trailing leg after Judge has got a touch on the ball. That is not the definition of a 50:50, a 50:50 is when both players meet the ball at the same time, that is not the case in this instance as Hyam only wins the ball with his second leg after Judge flicks the ball into it.

As a player you know what you're about to do, and you have a prerogative not to seriously injure your opponents - being firm in the tackle or physical is fine, but as long as it's safe. Hyam is off the floor with his leading led, full weight thrown into the tackle, and he lands on Judge's leg before he's won the ball. This is dangerous play and he should be ashamed that his recklessness and carelessness is going to have a huge financial impact on Judge's family, not to mention destroying his chance of representing his country at an international tournament.

 

[Tom_ITFC]

Obviously the collision has caused the break but what I meant is that Judge stretched for the ball whilst Hyam was already sliding in.
Here's a better view of what I mean

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. For what it's worth, I've shown it to plenty of non-Ipswich fans and they all said no it wasn't a foul and then you have the Bristol fan above.

I wish Alan Judge a speedy recovery, a player I admire and wish he was at our place (although he probably wouldn't fit into hoof ball tactics).

 

[mpmbee]

Sounds as though his leg is broken in two places, gutted for him.

 

[toshj]

Obviously the collision has caused the break but what I meant is that Judge stretched for the ball whilst Hyam was already sliding in.
Here's a better view of what I mean

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. For what it's worth, I've shown it to plenty of non-Ipswich fans and they all said no it wasn't a foul and then you have the Bristol fan above.

I wish Alan Judge a speedy recovery, a player I admire and wish he was at our place (although he probably wouldn't fit into hoof ball tactics).

But your own picture indicates that Hyam's leading leg doesn't connect with the ball! As you point out, Judge has stretched for the ball, but he's won the ball and Hyam's front leg has missed it.

Zoom in on my picture and you can see that he totally wipes out Judge's leg with his leading knee just as his trailing leg connects with the ball.

 

[Tom_ITFC]

But your own picture indicates that Hyam's leading leg doesn't connect with the ball! As you point out, Judge has stretched for the ball, but he's won the ball and Hyam's front leg has missed it.

Zoom in on my picture and you can see that he totally wipes out Judge's leg with his leading knee just as his trailing leg connects with the ball.

I never said he won it with his leading leg (is that even a rule?), but he won the ball. His leading leg is on the ground regardless.

Unfortunately, your picture is too pixilated from my point of view so can't get a good view of it.

Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree on this otherwise we'll be going round in circles! I can see your point of view but I don't agree with it.

Just read this post on the Ipswich forum and can see why he reacted to that challenge that got him sent off!

"I think he was let down by his team mates in many ways - but that doesn't excuse his silly retaliation.

He was being niggled at all half, and a couple of times he was challenged and when player got up over him they pushed his face right down into grass as they got up and I saw one player stand on his hand deliberately as he got off him after a foul.

One of our team should be in the refs ear, pointing out that they are winding him up and try and nip it in bud and put an end to it but we are too soft and miss Stephen Hunt in that regard.

I think he'd have gone off at half time, but didn't make it. Was silly to react but needed to be looked after by our team and wasn't."

Another poster has said that he was also visibly distressed by Judges injury (I was too far away to see it, but in the video when he is booked he looks it). So from the first post I found, Brentford players are equally not a squeaky clean side themselves!

 

[Munkiki]

McCarthy sides are physical and shit to watch but the idea that he sends out his team with the intent to injure is a bit daft. Football has moved on from the Muscats, players don't actively go out looking to break legs.

 

[toshj]

I never said he won it with his leading leg (is that even a rule?), but he won the ball. His leading leg is on the ground regardless.

Unfortunately, your picture is too pixilated from my point of view so can't get a good view of it.

Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree on this otherwise we'll be going round in circles! I can see your point of view but I don't agree with it.

Just read this post on the Ipswich forum and can see why he reacted to that challenge that got him sent off!

"I think he was let down by his team mates in many ways - but that doesn't excuse his silly retaliation.

He was being niggled at all half, and a couple of times he was challenged and when player got up over him they pushed his face right down into grass as they got up and I saw one player stand on his hand deliberately as he got off him after a foul.

One of our team should be in the refs ear, pointing out that they are winding him up and try and nip it in bud and put an end to it but we are too soft and miss Stephen Hunt in that regard.

I think he'd have gone off at half time, but didn't make it. Was silly to react but needed to be looked after by our team and wasn't."

Another poster has said that he was also visibly distressed by Judges injury (I was too far away to see it, but in the video when he is booked he looks it). So from the first post I found, Brentford players are equally not a squeaky clean side themselves!

You're right - we'll have to disagree. With regards to your last point about our players targeting Hyam, we certainly did, but I don't think it was in order to get him sent off. Instead was because they'd just seen their best mate have his leg broken in multiple places by a reckless tackle and were pissed. Your highlighted point about Hyam being let down by his teammates is certainly valid, but conversely I would say that Judge equally was supported by his teammates by getting in Hyam's face and causing your player to get his just deserts by getting himself sent off.

The tackle by Woods which led to Hyam getting his second yellow was full of anger and fire, a result of Hyam's leg breaking antics. It was interesting that Hyam was happy to dish out the cowardly tackle himself but then completely bottled every other tackle when he realised our players were giving him a dose of his own medicine.

Oh, and Varney should also have gone too!

 

[Tom_ITFC]

You're right - we'll have to disagree. With regards to your last point about our players targeting Hyam, we certainly did, but I don't think it was in order to get him sent off. Instead was because they'd just seen their best mate have his leg broken in multiple places by a reckless tackle and were pissed. Your highlighted point about Hyam being let down by his teammates is certainly valid, but conversely I would say that Judge equally was supported by his teammates by getting in Hyam's face and causing your player to get his just deserts by getting himself sent off.

The tackle by Woods which led to Hyam getting his second yellow was full of anger and fire, a result of Hyam's leg breaking antics. It was interesting that Hyam was happy to dish out the cowardly tackle himself but then completely bottled every other tackle when he realised our players were giving him a dose of his own medicine.

Oh, and Varney should also have gone too!

Your first point says the rest of the team didn't get Hyam sent off but then goes onto say they did? Which is it? Not very professional if they did and is cheating in my books. The tackle on Hyam that he reacted to could easily have broken his leg!
With regards to him bottling every challenge after the booking, well he was on a booking and his head wasn't there after seeing Judge's injury

Hyam has just admitted that the he knows the Brentford players tried to get under his skin after the Judge tackle.

So on this thread, Town have been accused of intending to injure but then you also think it's justifiable for a team to get another player sent off?

I have already admitted I felt Varney could have been sent off. Both me and my dad said it straight away! I have also said that I felt McGoldrick was lucky not to get a booking for deliberate hand ball, dive and persistent niggly fouls. However you forget to recongnise the ginger bloke who finally got under Hyam's skin could well have been sent off himself.

 

[toshj]

I didn't say they tried to get him sent off, I indicated that his own behaviour caused himself to get sent off as he wasn't able to deal with being targeted. Perhaps I'm confusing the two, but they were angered by Hyam's awful tackle and paid particular attention to him after. That's not cheating, that's being furious with an opponent.

I'm not sure you can raise a question over professionalism when Hyam broke someone's leg with a reckless tackle...

 

[MagpieBee]

Your first point says the rest of the team didn't get Hyam sent off but then goes onto say they did? Which is it? Not very professional if they did and is cheating in my books. The tackle on Hyam that he reacted to could easily have broken his leg!
With regards to him bottling every challenge after the booking, well he was on a booking and his head wasn't there after seeing Judge's injury

Hyam has just admitted that the he knows the Brentford players tried to get under his skin after the Judge tackle.

So on this thread, Town have been accused of intending to injure but then you also think it's justifiable for a team to get another player sent off?

I have already admitted I felt Varney could have been sent off. Both me and my dad said it straight away! I have also said that I felt McGoldrick was lucky not to get a booking for deliberate hand ball, dive and persistent niggly fouls. However you forget to recongnise the ginger bloke who finally got under Hyam's skin could well have been sent off himself.

Getting someone sent off doesn't even compare to injuring another player. In the first the guy is out for 1-3 games and has nothing that will hinder him physically. In the second, you potentially destroy the lads career.

If you go in for those types of challenges, you know there's a greater chance than normal you are going to injure the other player. Doesn't mean you are trying to, but the majority of players don't go in for those types of challenges, or that hard. It's easy enough to tackle for the ball in a much safer way.

Finally, if you are the kind of player going in for those challenges to try and put Judgey off his game by roughing him up a bit, you can hardly complain when the other team don't sit down and take it.

 

[Tom_ITFC]

Again, a genuine attempt to win the ball which he won. Not a way to rough up the opposition.

I've seen far worse challenges where the player walks away unscathed

 

[Aaron-Bcfc]

Fucking hell. It was a great tackle. He got hurt. It's football. It happens. Get over it.

Can't wait for the outrage when Nathan Baker lands a heavy one next week.

 

[Frank]

It's hard to tell using that replay how bad the foul was but I think the one blatant thing about that tackle was that he went in to crunch him. From that distance he didn't need to put his body through the tackle and drop to the floor, he could have won that without having diving in quite easily. It's hard to make out what broke his leg, the studs up or the trailing leg but one thing blatantly obvious is he went into that looking to make an impact. And well done mate you just broke his leg.

 

[Tom_ITFC]

He went in to get the ball before Judge. No more than that. Unfortunate injury