Jen's Brexit Watch

[Cornish Piskie]

The ticking time bomb hidden in The Brexit Bill

Always read the small print. The EU Withdrawal Bill slowly meandering its way through the House of Lords contains a provision which virtually nobody noticed. Until recently. In a somewhat anodyne clause called "Consequential Changes" it repeals the European Union Act of 2011.

Nobody noticed this in the Commons and it wasn't even debated. The Act turns out to be the legislation enacted by the Cameron Government to require a referendum for all future EU treaties which grant extra powers to Brussels. It was the price the European Reform Group of rabid Tory Europhobes screwed out of Cameron after his refusal to hold a referendum in 2010. You know the rest. The Referendum went ahead in the end, the result came in and the 2011 Act was forgotten all about.

But Lord Adonis is re-writing the Act, especially the last chapter.... the one that ends on 29 March next year.... and is trying to re-write the current EU Withdrawal Bill to remove the repeal of the 2011 Act. If successful, the 2011 Act would oblige Teresa May's Brexit Treaty, which hits Parliament at the end of this year to call a second Referendum.

It largely depends on whether the proposed Brexit Treaty hands Brussels new powers which my political buddies tell me the tenor of the agreement of December 2017 and yesterday's agreement on a Transition Period suggests it would.

The issue is about to be tested in the courts with an action against Davd Davis, requiring him to call for a Referendum on the Brexit Treaty. This of course all depends on the 2011 Act surviving which is why Lord Adonis has tabled an amendment in the Lords to cancel the repeal. The House of Lords is overwhelmingly on the side of Remain so if it gets to a vote there is a strong likelihood the motion will carry and the 2011 Act will survive.

Oh, the irony. The 2011 Act was drawn up because Cash, Redwood, Rees-Mogg and Davis wanted to make it impossible to agree anything constructive in Brussels (viz: EU Reform. Remember that..?). What they saw as a staging post to an in-out Referendum may just serve the same purpose in reverse.

Watch this space.

 

[Indian Dan]

Still avoiding commenting on the concerns about the EU posted on here, I see.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Still avoiding commenting on the concerns about the EU posted on here, I see.

Absolutely. This is a pro-Remain thread intended to highlight the fiasco that is Brexit. I've been quite consistent on that point since I started the thread. I have no intention of being deflected away from that. I know you and others want to hijack the thread and deflect me away from making my own points, but I'm not going to play that game.

But I'm glad you're reading what I'm writing. Even if you don't agree with it (that's your privilege), you're reading it. I'd be interested to read what you think of my post of earlier this evening..... How would you respond to a vote in the House of Lords to prevent the repeal of the 2011 Act...?

 

[Indian Dan]

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t read your posts. I just genuinely don’t see how you can hold the views you do whilst disregarding any aspects that you find uncomfortable to confront.

The very essence of a Remoaner

 

[Stevencc]

Someone did a great "Auntie Jen" with a YouTube comment...

"all I know is when I first heard Mathilde and Angelique...I gave my soul to Scott to look after. he still has it 40 years on.....an angel who came amongst us to calm us and give us beautiful music to listen to. How mature was I at 14 falling in love with jacques brel songs when everyone else was listening to brit pop! It was all in the incredible voice, the earth shattering orchestral arrangements and the poetry."

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Absolutely. This is a pro-Remain thread intended to highlight the fiasco that is Brexit. I've been quite consistent on that point since I started the thread. I have no intention of being deflected away from that. I know you and others want to hijack the thread and deflect me away from making my own points, but I'm not going to play that game.

Hang on, you again seem slightly confused as to how a forum works. We don't maintain this website to be your own personal blog. Other people making comments or points on which you may disagree is not hijacking or deflection, it is what you would expect on a forum containing various users holding various points of view. I repeat that it is not your prerogative to constrain what point of view maybe posted in a thread on a given subject. So long as it's all conducted in a suitable manner.

If this thread becomes a series of you posting articles that promote your view on the topic, followed by a few comments to the contrary which you go on to completely ignore - that is up to you. It's a bit dysfunctional, but so be it. But please do not label other points of view as "hijacking". That is ridiculous and inaccurate.

Thanks
Mark

 

[Cornish Piskie]

I (once again) pointed out the reasons I had for starting this thread, and that I am not going to be deflected from the points I am making. And that is MY prerogative.

You quite rightly say that others have the right to make their point. I agree. But at the same time, I have the right to choose not to be deflected from my own narrative by arguments based on logical fallacy, intended (in my estimation) to swamp the thread in faux "debate".

And Mark.... I know how a forum works. I also know about the Straw Man fallacy, the Dead Cat tactic, Ad Hominem, Ad Populem, Hasty Generalisation, Slippery Slope, Red Herring....... and lots of others besides. I've seen them all before.

But such tactics only work if the subject takes the bait. Which is why I choose to ignore them. The strategy employed by a group of us over a wide spread of social media is to simply post our message and let those who read it make up their own minds. THAT's democracy.

You may suggest it's pointless because nobody on here is supporting me. But while it is the Brexiters trying to howl us down, We think the message is getting across. And it's making a difference. A few determined Brextremists might make a lot of noise, but many more just read the message and take it onboard. I'm kinda happy with that. Try this latest example of Brexit corruption, hot off the press:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43527924



I realise this thread is not popular with the hard core of Brexiters on 1FF. Hey, I'm not here to gain a fan club. I've explained that a number of times. I'm exposing Brexit for the corrupt, despicable racially-motivated lie that it is. That isn't going make comfortable reading for those who have bought into it.

You could shut this thread down at any time. I'm sure that is within your remit. But that would be an act of censorship. What price Brexiter claims to "Respect for democracy" then..?

Until then, please excuse me.... I've got a blog to post.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

The Scottish Question Isn’t Going To Just Go Away.

Who cares what the Scots think eh? Simmering Scottish resentment has been quietly sidelined by Westminster. Downing Street thinks that talk of another constitutional crisis is exaggerated. Perhaps they should think again?

In her recent speech, Mrs May warned ominously that “Life is going to be different outside the single market”. For the Scottish Parliament this is at variance with a memorandum of understanding from the Cabinet Office in 2016 setting out terms of a Joint Ministerial Committee (JMC) for the Scottish and Welsh governments promising “Collaborative working and a common approach in negotiations with the EU”.

In reality, Westminster has ignored them. It promised to work towards a “UK approach” but instead, Westminster has ploughed ahead with scant regard for the Scots and Welsh. Rather, the UK cabinet has used the UK’s departure from the EU as an attempted power grab, particularly over the devolved areas of fishing, environmental policy and food safety.

Under an agreed convention Westminster must obtain consent if it wants to legislate on areas devolved to Scotland and Wales.

The stakes are now being raised in an escalating argument. The Scottish government has unveiled an Emergency Bill – and the Welsh government will soon follow suit – to sidestep Westminster by giving the Holyrood Parliament direct control over the repatriation of 111 powers that Team Brexit has attempted to transfer to Westminster.

In truth, the spat exposes a deep ideological divide over Brexit. “We must hammer home the case for staying in the single market and retaining our rights over social and environmental protection” says Mark Russell, Minister for Brexit talks in the Scottish Parliament. “Talk of a hard Brexit is a self destructive course of action to all apart from the delusional hard right.”

Scotland has also parted company from Westminster over immigration policy hence its campaign to stay in a single market underpinned by freedom of movement, labour, goods, capital and services. Scotland needs more EU migrants, not less to sustain a country that historically was losing population.

Scotland has plans for modest tax increases which could greatly benefit the Scottish people if the conditions are right for growth, which the Scottish Parliament sees as being impossible if Westminster continue on their current track and drag Scotland along with them.

On Europe, Scotland’s policies are clear. Staying in the single market is the thick red line – the ultimate imperative to sustain both the economy, public services and essential migration.

Theresa May is charting a distinctly different course. Trouble brewing.

 

[mowgli]

You really need to face the fact that the majority of those who voted did so to leave the corrupt EU, when was the last time The Eu had their accounts signed off? Never because they are terrified members of the cabal will rebel if they were told the truth of where their money goes. It all goes on EU wasteful spending that only benefits the elite not those who live under their rule.

 

[shane]

I realise this thread is not popular with the hard core of Brexiters on 1FF. Hey, I'm not here to gain a fan club. I've explained that a number of times. I'm exposing Brexit for the corrupt, despicable racially-motivated lie that it is. That isn't going make comfortable reading for those who have bought into it.

“I don't like people who come here: 'Ooh, we did it this way, we did it that way'. I just wanna go do it this way. If you like. If you don't... Team playing-I call it team individuality, it's a new, it's like a management style. Again guilty, unorthodox, sue me.”

 

[Stevencc]

I (once again) pointed out the reasons I had for starting this thread, and that I am not going to be deflected from the points I am making. And that is MY prerogative.

You quite rightly say that others have the right to make their point. I agree. But at the same time, I have the right to choose not to be deflected from my own narrative by arguments based on logical fallacy, intended (in my estimation) to swamp the thread in faux "debate".

And Mark.... I know how a forum works. I also know about the Straw Man fallacy, the Dead Cat tactic, Ad Hominem, Ad Populem, Hasty Generalisation, Slippery Slope, Red Herring....... and lots of others besides. I've seen them all before.

But such tactics only work if the subject takes the bait. Which is why I choose to ignore them. The strategy employed by a group of us over a wide spread of social media is to simply post our message and let those who read it make up their own minds. THAT's democracy.

You may suggest it's pointless because nobody on here is supporting me. But while it is the Brexiters trying to howl us down, We think the message is getting across. And it's making a difference. A few determined Brextremists might make a lot of noise, but many more just read the message and take it onboard. I'm kinda happy with that. Try this latest example of Brexit corruption, hot off the press:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43527924



I realise this thread is not popular with the hard core of Brexiters on 1FF. Hey, I'm not here to gain a fan club. I've explained that a number of times. I'm exposing Brexit for the corrupt, despicable racially-motivated lie that it is. That isn't going make comfortable reading for those who have bought into it.

You could shut this thread down at any time. I'm sure that is within your remit. But that would be an act of censorship. What price Brexiter claims to "Respect for democracy" then..?

Until then, please excuse me.... I've got a blog to post.

I'm a remain voter and I think this thread is comedy gold.

Unintentional comedy gold.

Your narrative that those that dislike your posting style in this thread only do so because they disagree with your politics is incorrect.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

You really need to face the fact that the majority of those who voted did so to leave the corrupt EU, when was the last time The Eu had their accounts signed off? Never because they are terrified members of the cabal will rebel if they were told the truth of where their money goes. It all goes on EU wasteful spending that only benefits the elite not those who live under their rule.

Difficult to know where to start with a post like this, but it's either ignorant or disingenuous to claim that accounts aren't signed off. The Court of Auditors performs this task on a yearly basis. And yes, errors (of which a very small minority of cases might be fraudulent) do get identified but it's worth noting that the great majority of the budget (about 80%) is managed by member states themselves, who are similarly prone to making errors in the allocation of money. I could elaborate further but I imagine that banging my head repeatedly against a brick wall might be rather more fruitful.

 

[Ernesto]

this thread lol

 

[merseyboyred]

You quite rightly say that others have the right to make their point. I agree. But at the same time, I have the right to choose not to be deflected from my own narrative by arguments based on logical fallacy, intended (in my estimation) to swamp the thread in faux "debate".

Sorry, but not every argument in favour of Brexit is "based on logical fallacy" simply because you're a rabid remainer. That's intellectually dishonest and you know it. Your characterisation of Brexit as simply a "corrupt, despicable racially-motivated lie" is a fallacy in itself.

Whilst Brexit being racially motivated amongst many who voted for it is certainly true, it fails to address the causes of the vote to leave and the conditions that created the dissatisfaction & disquiet with the EU, the conditions that fomented the racist Brexit and people who voted leave for reasons other than plain racism or xenophobia. It completely ignores leftist (or even liberal) critiques of the EU and remaining in that institution in its current form. You're certainly not unique amongst remainers in that however, but the smug superiority, blatant ignorance and lack of intellectual curiosity of those who do so really is beyond grating (and I voted to remain ).

By all means continue your personal crusade against Brexit in the same fashion that ensured Brexit though, don't let me or anyone else stop you.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Most of the same charges can be levelled at Leavers on this forum tbh.

Don't know why everyone's bullying her tbh. It's unpleasant.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Most of the same charges can be levelled at Leavers on this forum tbh.

Don't know why everyone's bullying her tbh. It's unpleasant.

Thank you for that, PP. Unfortunately, the moderator who is always very quick to pull me up for any transgressions of the rules appears to be somewhat slack in carrying out his duty when it comes to bullying by the Leave supporters.

It seems there are two sets of rules on this site and Mark is only enforcing the ones that suit his personal agenda.

But I've got a pretty thick skin and will carry on regardless.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

We Were Conned And Now We Need A New Referendum

https://news.sky.com/story/whistle-blower-doubtful-gove-did-not-know-of-vote-leave-donation-11307465


As more revelations emerge about the role of Cambridge Analytica (CA) in the EU Referendum the question must be asked: Can the outcome of that vote be regarded as legitimate..?

CA boasted on the Channel 4 undercover operation that it's profiling of people online and it's "Micro Targeting" of them of messages aimed at manipulating their voting behaviour has been successful in, not only the Brexit vote but also in the US Presidential Election.

While the International Commissioner's Office is investigating CA's use of of data analysis for political purposes, the Electoral Commission is conducting its own inquiry into the firm's possible role in the Referendum.

Democracy relies on transparency.... correct information.... an opportunity for people to hear all sides of the argument without distortion, manipulation, lies, psychological tricks and hidden influences.

Of course, politicians have always sailed close to the wind, but if proven, what CA did during the Referendum campaign would put the matter on a different scale.

And when we have the alleged breach of financial rules (see the news clip above) that scream aloud to be answered the question then arises: Is the June 2016 vote valid..? Should it be allowed to stand..? Is it not rendered void..?

We all know that the Leave campaign was full of lies, distortions and false promises and it offered no plan, road map, impact studies or proposals and by extention offered no realistic choices. These facts sicken the heart and make undeniable the demand for a properly conducted second referendum with clarity and facts available. A genuine debate conducted within the rules where both sides make their case and are heard fairly and equitably.

But that's the last thing that Leave want.

Why...? Because they have taken the votes cast by 37% of a restricted electorate as a mandate for a massive constitutional change. This is a different kind of political crime. The moral and constitutional criminality of a broken order in which one side, in effect, engages in a coup against their own country on which we now see more clearly than ever, it feeds on for its own interests.

But any proven breach of electoral law..... the theft of private data of millions of people, covert micro messaging, manipulation and distortion the like of which CA appear to boast during the Channel 4 sting... would make it totally unacceptable for the EU Referendum result to be allowed to stand.

For to let it stand in such circumstances would be to allow our country to be redirected in a damaging, retrograde, impoverishing and diminishing direction by a process known to be at best unreliable and at worst, corrupt.

The conclusion is clear: If there is shown to be any foundation in the allegations the Referendum MUST BY LAW be declared void.

Cleaning up the mess created by the May Government, aided and abetted at every step by the Corbyn Opposition should not be left to them because they are not trustworthy. Instead, we must reboot the whole process by the ballot box ..... and in a way that is truly democratic, clean, legal and reliable. I would support any second vote - whichever result came of it - which I believed was properly conducted.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

The politics forum has for my 13 or so years around TFF and 1FF on balance seen more contributors I'd disagree, than agree with. And that's good, I wouldn't enjoy reading an echo chamber.

I don't know what more I can say to you Jen. You feel free to post your views in here, and I'll do my job in keeping the forum up and running so that you can do so. Just don't be surprised when other people pass comment on your musings, be it in agreement or disagreement. You've got a thick skin you say, so surely you want discussion as well, not monologue? If there is abuse involved then I and/or our other staff will deal with it.

Regarding CA I wrote an even larger ramble than yours (!) in the other thread.

 

[Stevencc]

I've come to the conclusion that Cornish Piskie must be an incredibly dedicated alternate account or a wind-up-merchant.

I'll steer clear from this thread from now on, have fun...fun...fun.

 

[shane]

For the record, I’m a remain supporter and actually agree with most of what Jen says. Fair play to her for her efforts.

I’m poking fun because I just absolutely love the “me against the world” narrative and the belief that The Man (1FF) is out to shut her down. It’s Jose Mourinho meets Alan Partridge and it’s fantastic.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

It's interesting to observe the emergence of "[not your] own personal blog" Mark though. Not quite sure where this Mark was when one of the site owners was treating this place as his own personal fiefdom and consigning all the plucky forum dissidents to the gallows. Naturally I'm pleased that the cat seems to have finally relinquished its agonising grasp on his tongue though.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Quite the hot take on Brexit discourse Pineapple.

Nice to see you around again recently though (genuinely).