Leeds Vs Forest

[Depthcharge]

Good point JP.

What he did was instinct I believe and not premeditated and a notch or two down from someone blatantly flinging themselves in an orchestrated dive to gain a penalty.

As you say and I said previously over a season it evens itself out...and ultimately the table doesn't lie come May.

Moved on.

 

[toshj]

Good point JP.

What he did was instinct I believe and not premeditated and a notch or two down from someone blatantly flinging themselves in an orchestrated dive to gain a penalty.

As you say and I said previously over a season it evens itself out...and ultimately the table doesn't lie come May.

Moved on.

Keep telling yourself anything to ignore the shame of the situation...

Watkins went down easily, no question, but he was about to be cleared out the next step by the keeper so would likely have been a penalty anyway, it's hardly a Maradonna Hand of God situation... like the Roofe handball. It's not an instinctive act, he's lowered his body into a position whereby a handball will look less obvious.

It's ok to admit it - we won't think any worse than you - it was a shameful act by Roofe, and it happens sometimes in football. Sometimes it goes for you, sometimes against, but being balanced about the whole thing is key - in the game last season at Elland Road, you scored an offside winner and Alioski should have been sent off. It was annoying (note: we didn't start a petition about it) but things evened themselves out with the Watkins decision.

 

[JP_LUFC]

https://www.change.org/p/efl-dock-l...re_petition&utm_content=fht-13763689-en-gb:v1

 

[JP_LUFC]

Keep telling yourself anything to ignore the shame of the situation...

Watkins went down easily, no question, but he was about to be cleared out the next step by the keeper so would likely have been a penalty anyway, it's hardly a Maradonna Hand of God situation... like the Roofe handball. It's not an instinctive act, he's lowered his body into a position whereby a handball will look less obvious.

It's ok to admit it - we won't think any worse than you - it was a shameful act by Roofe, and it happens sometimes in football. Sometimes it goes for you, sometimes against, but being balanced about the whole thing is key - in the game last season at Elland Road, you scored an offside winner and Alioski should have been sent off. It was annoying (note: we didn't start a petition about it) but things evened themselves out with the Watkins decision.

Roofe's handball was as bad as Watkins' dive. You can argue both were premeditated and meant it but there's no arguing that both broke the rules.

 

[toshj]

Roofe's handball was as bad as Watkins' dive. You can argue both were premeditated and meant it but there's no arguing that both broke the rules.

Yeah, it really wasn't. How many times during any given match does a player go down easily to buy a foul. 10? 15? It happens all the time during a game.

How many times on any given match does a player purposefully handle the ball? Once? If that...

How many goals per season are scored through dodgy penalties? Dozens? How many goals are scored throughout the season through purposeful handballs? None? Maybe one at a push?

 

[JP_LUFC]

Yeah, it really wasn't. How many times during any given match does a player go down easily to buy a foul. 10? 15? It happens all the time during a game.

How many times on any given match does a player purposefully handle the ball? Once? If that...

How many goals per season are scored through dodgy penalties? Dozens? How many goals are scored throughout the season through purposeful handballs? None? Maybe one at a push?

Doesn't make it right though does it? Both are against the rules. Diving to con the ref into getting a penalty is cheating. Handling the ball into the goal is cheating.

 

[toshj]

Doesn't make it right though does it? Both are against the rules. Diving to con the ref into getting a penalty is cheating. Handling the ball into the goal is cheating.

Who said it's right? It's what is and isn't part of the game. Leeds fans have, through hours of ponderous self-study, managed to convince themselves it's not poor form. Yet again the club's fans have shown a completely irregular moral compass to virtually all other fans when it comes to what happens on the pitch.

The Maradonna hand of good scenario is still talked about today. How many goals scored during the '86 World Cup that were a result of diving are still discussed?

 

[Depthcharge]

You lot are wasting ink now. Off for a cuppa.

 

[Another Walkley Owl]

Still not seen it, but don't understand why anybody other than Forest fans are outraged about it.
Shit happens if it was against my team I'd be pissed, but it isn't so it doesn't affect me.
The Andy Ritchie one in 84 did though and ultimately cost us the title. (Not that I'm bitter about it 34 years later!!)

 

[JP_LUFC]

Who said it's right? It's what is and isn't part of the game. Leeds fans have, through hours of ponderous self-study, managed to convince themselves it's not poor form. Yet again the club's fans have shown a completely irregular moral compass to virtually all other fans when it comes to what happens on the pitch.

The Maradonna hand of good scenario is still talked about today. How many goals scored during the '86 World Cup that were a result of diving are still discussed?

So through all that tosh (apt username by the way), I think what you're trying to say is that diving is OK because it's seen as being more widely accepted, even though it's still effectively cheating? And also by your logic Kemar Roofe is likely to be remembered as a cheat for the next 32 years/all Leeds fans generally have a skewed sense of morals.

Honestly, why do all the weirdo's come out of the woodwork at half term on here? Haven't you got homework to do or have you got fed up of pestering mum to buy you Red Dead Redemption?

 

[toshj]

So through all that tosh (apt username by the way), I think what you're trying to say is that diving is OK because it's seen as being more widely accepted, even though it's still effectively cheating? And also by your logic Kemar Roofe is likely to be remembered as a cheat for the next 32 years/all Leeds fans generally have a skewed sense of morals.

Honestly, why do all the weirdo's come out of the woodwork at half term on here? Haven't you got homework to do or have you got fed up of pestering mum to buy you Red Dead Redemption?

That's not what I'm saying in slightest, I struggle to understand how you've come to that conclusion, but that was a good attempt by you anyway - well done, gold star

Only someone being willfully obtuse... (or a moron) refuses to realise that there is a large difference between diving during a game and purposefully handling a ball into the net. Both are indeed cheating, but both are witnessed throughout the game at totally differing levels of frequency. It's a bit like saying "time wasting is cheating, so is scoring with a hand ball - therefore both are as bad as each other". Shades of grey and all that... If you think I was referring to Roofe's handball as being as memorable as Maradonna's (rather than quite obviously comparing the fact that all the dives throughout the '86 WC have vanished from public memory, whilst the handball is still remembered, being an appropriate example of why handballs and dives are regarded differently in the game) then honestly there may be no hope after all...

Regarding your after thought - As a grown up (with a deceased mother fyi...) I'm largely free to post whenever I want to, although I am indeed struggling with Red Dead Redemption... your concern is duly noted and greatly appreciated.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I think decisions like that tend to even themselves out of the course of the season but that doesn't mean it's right. I'd feel aggrieved if I were a Forest fan. That said, we were done over by a blatant dive a few weeks ago so it's swings and roundabouts.

That’s a commonly used cliche about “decisions even themselves out over a season” but it’s untrue. Teams involved in relegation are often very unlucky in many matches whereas teams near the top tend to be more lucky. I’ve also heard it said that the “bigger clubs tend to get all the decisions” but that is also untrue.

The reality is teams that attack more, having more action in the opponents area tend to be awarded more penalties. Law of averages, the more times a team is involved in 50/50 or 40/60 decisions then eventually they’ll gain a dodgy decision.

Also the teams that dominate matches tend to receive more favourable decisions.

Leeds were dominant at the time and were well worthy of an equaliser, this is when refs prove they are only human and tend to be bias towards the more worthy team. It’s happened many teams over the years, refs tend to be bias towards the team playing better on the day.

 

[JP_LUFC]

The last few years at Elland Road, I've often witnessed the opposite in terms of the attacking football/'big' club point - the referees have been more defiant against a larger, vociferous crowd than they may be used to at various other grounds in the Championship/League 1. Leeds haven't had a penalty in our favour home or away for 53 games now, over a full calendar year. I'm not saying there's a conspiracy as some of our idiots on Twitter would suggest, but it's interesting if nothing else.

Of course referees get it wrong, they're only human, but Saturday certainly evened up a very poor refereeing performance against Brentford which ultimately cost us. Of course I'd feel aggrieved if I was a Forest fan - but the interesting thing for me is the way Roofe appears to be made out to be the anti-Christ. What he did was against the rules, there's no getting away from that. In my opinion though, blatant diving is just as bad.

 

[JP_LUFC]

That's not what I'm saying in slightest, I struggle to understand how you've come to that conclusion, but that was a good attempt by you anyway - well done, gold star

Only someone being willfully obtuse... (or a moron) refuses to realise that there is a large difference between diving during a game and purposefully handling a ball into the net. Both are indeed cheating, but both are witnessed throughout the game at totally differing levels of frequency. It's a bit like saying "time wasting is cheating, so is scoring with a hand ball - therefore both are as bad as each other". Shades of grey and all that... If you think I was referring to Roofe's handball as being as memorable as Maradonna's (rather than quite obviously comparing the fact that all the dives throughout the '86 WC have vanished from public memory, whilst the handball is still remembered, being an appropriate example of why handballs and dives are regarded differently in the game) then honestly there may be no hope after all...

Regarding your after thought - As a grown up (with a deceased mother fyi...) I'm largely free to post whenever I want to, although I am indeed struggling with Red Dead Redemption... your concern is duly noted and greatly appreciated.

You're trying to take the point I was making out of context. I was comparing Watkins diving in the box, conning the referee into giving a penalty to Roofe who handled it in being equivalent in terms of cheating and being wrong.

Roofe will be remembered for what he did long after Watkins. It's a shame really, I think the Bees fans secretly loved the fact that someone found anything associated with the club interesting enough to talk about for once.

 

[Another Walkley Owl]

We have a "diver" at our club, but due to his reputation for it, almost every 50/50 is given against him and often blatant assault is given as a freekick for our opponents.
Think everyone knows who I'm talking about, but as a fan much as it pisses me off when obvious fouls go against him I have to say he's brought much of it upon himself.
More often than not "cheating" doesn't prosper.

 

[JP_LUFC]

We have a "diver" at our club, but due to his reputation for it, almost every 50/50 is given against him and often blatant assault is given as a freekick for our opponents.
Think everyone knows who I'm talking about, but as a fan much as it pisses me off when obvious fouls go against him I have to say he's brought much of it upon himself.
More often than not "cheating" doesn't prosper.

It's a shame with him, he's clearly talented enough and doesn't need to do it. 'Fessi' has an appearance clause in his contract doesn't he? Is he part of the 'injured' list?

 

[toshj]

You're trying to take the point I was making out of context. I was comparing Watkins diving in the box, conning the referee into giving a penalty to Roofe who handled it in being equivalent in terms of cheating and being wrong.

Roofe will be remembered for what he did long after Watkins. It's a shame really, I think the Bees fans secretly loved the fact that someone found anything associated with the club interesting enough to talk about for once.

You're right. We're wildly uninteresting... no one takes any notice of what we do.

 

[TomPNE94]

Watkins didn’t even dive haha

 

[villa loyal]

Maybe if we let this handball go, and fade out of memory, then Leeds fans will shut up about being champions of Europe, and being cheated out of that 75 cup final?