Luton v Carlisle

[daviejones]

That's pretty much what BigDaveCUFC has been saying about the prospect of that front 3 playing together. Also add with Wyke in the mix last night, it's pretty hard to handle at this level.

Their defence looked lost at times and it probably was down to this, they can essentially pick two of the three to man mark or they can try to stand either side of Ibehre and cover all three of them. They tried both options at times last night; they failed at both - obviously, because all three managed to get a goal as well as Wyke. I can't really see how any defence in this league could cope with that front three on that sort of form which is very exciting for us. We could genuinely tear Crawley to shreds if we carry on playing as we were yesterday for the most part.

 

[shoddycollins]

Because I was at an event last night I only managed to listen to the game twice, once on about 20 minutes with Luton 1-0 up, and then again for the last 10... was reduced to text and app updates for most of the evening.

When I listened to the game in the first half it was mostly JP and Deano praising Cuthbert, what a good defender he was and not understanding why Orient had let him go. Looking at Outlaws though, the Luton fans seem less than impressed with him overall. He start well? Or it is not the fault of an individual Luton defender if their manager allows them to get outmanned 4-to-2 in their own defensive third? It seems the view from their fans is one of criticism of Still, for thinking after we threw all our strikers on at the same time, he could just continue to defend the way he had been and expect to withstand it. Seems maybe they were a bit injury-hit at the back, didn't have too many options.

 

[shoddycollins]

James Phillips and Deano commentating last night, going mental with our winner:

https://audioboom.com/boos/3852354-...rek-asamoah-s-winner-at-luton-town-last-night

No prizes for guessing at what point in that audio clip of the commentary the goal happens.

 

[hellogregory]

We could genuinely tear Crawley to shreds if we carry on playing as we were yesterday for the most part.

We could, but our problem is we've been largely poor at home this season.

It is about time we put on a show at home though because we need to get the fans back. Plus we have a very tough away game at Oxford coming up which makes 3 points against Crawley so important.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Rubbish.

Not really. They were better than us for at least 75 of the 90 IMHO. We scored two goals with moments of real quality and a lucky third with a huge deflection (given to Green but an own goal for me as the initial shot looked to be off-target). Beyond that, we had patches of knocking the ball around reasonably well (certainly by our own standards this season) but didn't create any real clear cut chances. Carlisle played better football and created more and better chances throughout - they could easily have been ahead at half time with better finishing. The less said about the last half an hour the better from our perspective.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

Because I was at an event last night I only managed to listen to the game twice, once on about 20 minutes with Luton 1-0 up, and then again for the last 10... was reduced to text and app updates for most of the evening.

When I listened to the game in the first half it was mostly JP and Deano praising Cuthbert, what a good defender he was and not understanding why Orient had let him go. Looking at Outlaws though, the Luton fans seem less than impressed with him overall. He start well? Or it is not the fault of an individual Luton defender if their manager allows them to get outmanned 4-to-2 in their own defensive third? It seems the view from their fans is one of criticism of Still, for thinking after we threw all our strikers on at the same time, he could just continue to defend the way he had been and expect to withstand it. Seems maybe they were a bit injury-hit at the back, didn't have too many options.

I think perhaps your commentators fell for this same trick that i did. I started off liking Cuthbert but the more i've seen of him the less enamoured i have become.

On face value he looks like the big commanding centre half you like at this level, good talker, not the quickest but on face value a good reading of the game to make up for that, wins his headers from goal kicks, strong in the tackle etc. In reality he makes mental errors, lets his concentration slip and the biggest one which has been a problem for all of our defenders - cannot deal with crosses into the box.

Now, whilst the above is true (at least to my mind) the biggest issue last night for me aside from the individual errors by Cuthbert and O'Brien was that when you started throwing everything you had at us putting us in the 4v2 situation you identify, we simply did not react to that tactically at all and therefore put them in the position to make those errors. Both had been pretty poor all night, not playing well and struggling to deal with your threat but Still did nothing to try and stop this and instead left them to fail.

The change I would like to have seen was Doyle coming on for one of the forwards, probably Marriott, to mitigate this pretty much as soon as Ibehre and Gilliead came on as it was clear for all to see what was going to happen. Still says Doyle was injured and even though he was on the bench was never going to play unless as an absolute last resort, but i am fairly certain i saw Doyle being waved over at 3-2 to come on by our assistant manager and begin getting ready but by then it was far too late.

Either way we should have done something to help those 2 out, we did nothing however and where left not only left in a situation where we were outnumbered up front, but outnumbered with players who where playing poorly. To be honest even if they where playing well i still think they would have struggled to cope such was the way things where set up tactically.

Still should know the limitations of his players by now better than anyone, but it seemed to be Curle who was the one who was quickest to identify and exploit them whilst Still left his players to flounder with no support.

 

[Chippy]

Amen to that. I'd have had Doyle on at 3-1. See the game out. We were in control at that stage. If he's injured why is he on the bench?

 

[shoddycollins]

Amen to that. I'd have had Doyle on at 3-1. See the game out. We were in control at that stage. If he's injured why is he on the bench?

Seen that come up a lot on Outlaws. That Still said he was only put on the bench in case of emergency.

I'm not sure what part of 'the opposition have just pegged us back to 3-2 within minutes of throwing two extra forwards on the pitch' isn't an emergency. You'd think that was exactly he was on the bench.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Still says Doyle was injured and even though he was on the bench was never going to play unless as an absolute last resort, but i am fairly certain i saw Doyle being waved over at 3-2 to come on by our assistant manager and begin getting ready but by then it was far too late.

Someone definitely took their tracksuit off and was ready to come on just before the equaliser, after which the sub was abandoned. Hard to tell from my position (back of the Main Stand) who it was, but I was sure it was Doyle too. Could have been Curtley Williams I suppose (that sub would have worked too as he could have played right back and shifted Lawless into central midfield with Smith/Lee dropping deeper).

Either way I agree, Still was far too slow or hesitant to react to the situation.

Also agreed re: Cuthbert, he's got the physical attributes but seems to lack a good reading or understanding of the game. He's constantly getting caught out of position and/or giving away stupid fouls. Maybe it's a lack of confidence or understanding but he also doesn't seem to be much of a defensive leader. If McNulty had his physical attributes he'd have played Championship level at least.


One of the most disappointing things for me on Tuesday was our response - or lack thereof - to the fourth Carlisle goal. There was still 10 minutes (15 including stoppage time) to get something out of the game, but we did nothing, never even looked like scoring. It seemed to me like most of our players went into hiding at that point, no-one looking to get on the ball or coming short for a pass. Mentally we were completely gone and it was indicative of the lack of fight/spirit/belief that has characterised the team for the last 10 months or so.

 

[shoddycollins]

One of the most disappointing things for me on Tuesday was our response - or lack thereof - to the fourth Carlisle goal. There was still 10 minutes (15 including stoppage time) to get something out of the game, but we did nothing, never even looked like scoring. It seemed to me like most of our players went into hiding at that point, no-one looking to get on the ball or coming short for a pass. Mentally we were completely gone and it was indicative of the lack of fight/spirit/belief that has characterised the team for the last 10 months or so.

That's a feeling we know well, for most of the last 7 years you could say whenever we were a goal behind, there was no belief that we could find a way back into the game and often we'd just give in. Things have improved massively though, we've scored a ridiculous amount of equalisers (and just as well given our shaky defence), and cancelled out two-goal deficits four-times so far this season, on two occasions going on to win the game.

Still had an interesting appraisal that I can understand. He said that in the last 10 minutes, the players abandoned their plan, and instead of doing the stuff they should have been doing all along, each one felt this pressure to do something game-changing when they had the ball.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I think a problem when we hit our stride is we're very tough for a manager to know what to do with when playing at home.

I'd guess even though I did not see it, at the time we got our 2nd and suddenly had momentum we'd had Wyke, Jabo, Asamoah in a front 3, add in gilliead and Grainger who won't have been sitting back and I'd say at times we're playing 3-2-5 away from home, and that is with someone like Kennedy also pushing up when he can.

and when they are in good form, Jabo needs 2 men on him, Gilliead needs 2 men on him, Asamoah can need 2 men on him.....so whom does the other side prioritize...........its not easy.

away from home it is when frankly fans expect you to defend, but if here the home manager chucks in a very defensive formation the fans moan and complain, most managers won't go ultra negative at home.

We're only an average side really, but we've good quality up front and seem at times willing to risk all or nothing and that must be making it tough for opposition managers to think of how to deal with us at times.

Our bigger question is will it work second half of season when all these managers know what to expect (except Bristol R and Portsmouth)

Luton still have a good chance of top 7 like a lot of sides, it just needs some form at the right time of season (feb onwards) so will depend on them couple of January additions, we're not a side to gauge too much opinion from when playing at home as doubt many others in L2 will have our strange approach.

 

[shoddycollins]

Our bigger question is will it work second half of season when all these managers know what to expect (except Bristol R and Portsmouth)

To be honest, with scouting networks and DVDs and stats galore, I don't really buy that we can win games where the opposition manager hasn't seen us play and doesn't know what we're going to do. I'm sure John Still knew fine well what we might have done, and how his team could counter that.

Perhaps those games where we set up defensively are thrown in just so that the opposition manager doesn't know for sure which method we'll use. It may be more rare that we've gone and put in a good defensive performance but there have been occasions. Orient was probably the best example but QPR was similar so it's not a dead-duck as a tacit. The recent FA Cup game at Plymouth was one where we played the same team for the second time in the season but weren't sussed out, even though Plymouth beat us comfortably the first time.

Maybe it's just that, as aware as Still might have been of the way we might set up, he can never know if we will set up that way, maybe he could have contained us easily had he only known to expect us to attack. As you say, the possibility of an attacking away team must worry managers because they know if they set up to contain up to 4 tricky forwards on the pitch at once they'll get pilloried by their own fans, especially if we decided this was going to be a rare occasion we set up to defend. The Luton fans may be angry with Still now for not holding onto the lead, but imagine how angry they'd have been had he set up a defensive formation and we turned up, played 4-3-3 and looked to nick one on the counter as away teams often do, and gone away with a 1-0 win.

 

[Kenneth E End]

I suppose its fine margins. Before Carlisle's first goal, we hadn't conceded a goal for 315 minutes previously in league games. Classic League 2 form - inconsistency.

 

[djs]

That's true, but to be honest, although we hadn't conceded for such a long time, I think that it was due to the inadequacies of other teams forwards rather than a comment on the quality of our defence.
Plus, earlier in the season Tyler was MoM several times, including one game that we won 4-1!
To my mind, our defence has been frighteningly poor all season, and I include all of the defenders who have played in that, but we have mostly got away with it, partly due to Tyler, and partly to poor opposition forwards.

 

[oakroader]

everyone dissecting our performances and trying to find rhyme and reason,
on why Luton have flattered to deceive again so far this season.
credit where it's due to most of our opposition,
they seem to raise their game no matter their league position.
let's be honest and face facts,
Mr still and his coaching staff are close to the axe.
a breath of fresh air is needed to resuscitate our mission...
to get the fuck out of this unpredictable division!!!!