Man City CEO calls for B teams to be allowed into the EFL

[shoddycollins]

Man City chief calls for B Teams in league pyramid

Manchester City chief executive Ferran Soriano has raised the highly controversial prospect of Premier League B Teams joining the league pyramid.

www.newsandstar.co.uk

Someone clearly forgot to tell him that in public, the position of the Premier League is that B teams in some sort of capacity might be a good idea but they aren't trying to impose them on the Football League, so he went and said what we all know they think but won't admit.

 

[valefan16]

Man City were excellent with us in January, helped us sort merchandise and didn’t prevent us putting their logo etc on it like some clubs do and earned massive praise from our CEO.

Poor from him today.

Firstly where do you fit them? Who do you relegate?

Financially the league will be worse off as fans won’t turn out to watch games against B teams, especially away.

Based on what I’ve seen of them all so far in the Leasing most would struggle against the physical men’s football we have. Games we’ve played even with massive changes it’s generally been men v boys literally and we’ve cruised through the games with relative comfort. In the league with our full XI (we did against Stoke for obvious reasons) you’d smash most of them.

Probably all be relegated in a few years out the league!

 

[Essex2Wessex]

He can get lost.

It seems pretty common for something like this to occur in the pyramids in several Western European countries: but with restrictions preventing them from being promoted above a certain level (I guess probably above League One might be the equivalent level here) - not sure if there are any restrictions on relegation though. And typically they play their home games at a secondary ground (so, hmm, could that conceivably mean Gigg Lane instead of Maine Road for Man City B?...).

What's he gambling on? 12 League Two teams going bust this season?

 

[shoddycollins]

Man City were excellent with us in January, helped us sort merchandise and didn’t prevent us putting their logo etc on it like some clubs do and earned massive praise from our CEO.

Poor from him today.

Firstly where do you fit them? Who do you relegate?

Financially the league will be worse off as fans won’t turn out to watch games against B teams, especially away.

Based on what I’ve seen of them all so far in the Leasing most would struggle against the physical men’s football we have. Games we’ve played even with massive changes it’s generally been men v boys literally and we’ve cruised through the games with relative comfort. In the league with our full XI (we did against Stoke for obvious reasons) you’d smash most of them.

Probably all be relegated in a few years out the league!

No doubt they'd be exempt from relegation. If clubs go bust or there is reason to expel them from the league then they'll be replaced with B-teams until you've got maybe 12 or so of them knocking about. At that point they'd decide that there should be no further promotion/relegation between L2 and the NL and of course B teams can't get promoted to the Premier League. A few of the Championship teams are big-hitters though so they'll create a PL2 out of the biggest ones with so you have maybe 2 divisions of 16 with no promotion or relegation between PL2 and the EFL and an EFL of 60 clubs, a significant number of whom are B teams.

Oh well, perhaps Mesut Ozil will come to our rescue, he seems to be in a generous mood.

 

[#Beebot]

The Spanish football pyramid is fundamentally different to ours, it has 80 teams in the third tier and 397 teams in the fourth tier. Most of these teams have attendances in the 3 figures and play at municipal grounds.

It's just not comparable and Man City's leadership simply need to get over it and understand that they cannot duplicate the Spanish pyramid system here.

Also his insistence that all player development takes place in-house is the cause of many of the problems he describes, such as Sancho going to Germany. Chelsea, for example, are happy to make use of the loan system for development and it hasn't done the likes of Mount, Abraham and Tomori any harm.

 

[PuB]

I’m fearing this might become a condition of any potential bail out for league teams involving PL cash. I’m hoping it’s not, but they forced our hand in to allowing U23 teams in to the pointless trophy.

 

[Chris FGR]

Wasn't the idea to restructure the EFL into 4 leagues of 20 to let 8 b teams in? So basically relegate 12 clubs from this league to the new league 3. Think promotion/relegation to the National League was meant to work as normal once the new system was set up so b teams could go down.

Load of shite in my book in any case, no benefit to anyone. Doubt most Prem teams even care/want it to happen. Only teams like Man City and Chelsea who stockpile a fuckload of players and then don't what to do with them are the ones making noises about this.

 

[Luke Imp]

The EFL is unsustainable, I think we can agree on that, but that's in large parts down to the PL driving prices up and everyone trying to keep pace, which feeds itself down the pyramid. There needs to be tighter financial controls all the way through the pyramid but even that still relies on the likes of UEFA and FIFA doing their job, which they won't, because their focus is on the WC/CL etc.

I don't think EFL Club's would accept it in any event, it'd need 90% majority to pass through for a start and I don't think it'll get to a vote anyway.

A start would also be to make it cheaper for EFL Club's to loan young PL players, they cost a fortune unless you have a manager who knows people up there. There are all sorts of clauses they insist on.

They'd be absolute uproar if 'B' teams became a condition of any funding.

 

[Devon_Lad]

The EFL is unsustainable

Meanwhile, Premier League teams rocked up a collective debt last year of £400m.

It's much more sustainable to rely on bums on seats than it is to be a foreign billionaires play thing.

 

[Devon_Lad]

How would it work? An additional 19 teams: would that require a League 3? What happens to the PL sides that get relegated; do their B sides get kicked out to make way for the promoted sides' B teams?

 

[Luke Imp]

Meanwhile, Premier League teams rocked up a collective debt last year of £400m.

It's much more sustainable to rely on bums on seats than it is to be a foreign billionaires play thing.

Exactly, although the debt is largely irrelevant to a point if it's manageable, it's all relative to the size of the business - albeit most debts are to owners than banks. Worth pointing out that PL Clubs run at a c60% average turnover:wages ratio. In the Championship in 2018/19, 22 of the 24 teams were over 60% - over the half the division were 100%+ (Reading 200%+!).

My point was, the Championship Club's chase the PL dream and pay more for players to keep up with the PL. To a lesser extent, L1 do so to keep up with the Championship, L2 to L1 and NL to L2. Everything gets pushed up and moves with the PL.

But I agree with that you're saying, there's no need to be sustainable if you've got long term owners who continue to plug gaps and have massive TV deals - spending is all relative to that, mind.

The problem being is that EFL owners as a whole don't have deep enough pockets to keep up with the PL. They're trying to bridge that £100m TV deal with owner funding and creative accounting.

 

[Devon_Lad]

Julian Tagg, our club president and director of external affairs was on Sky Sports News a minute ago saying how unacceptable it is. The blokes a prick, but glad he's gone out and made it clear that it will destroy the lower leagues.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

League two cannot complain about finances and spending elsewhere when players at this level (very poor quality in the overall aspect of football) get paid from 500-3000 a week.

time to get back to realistic money for players at this level who should be on about 20-22000 a year at best if not less

 

[PuB]

Isn’t 20-22k (whilst being a decentish enough wage), less than the national average wage?

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I am a band 3 nhs worker....that isNt their lowest band and I’m only on 21500

lots of people are in jobs about 18000-20000

lower league football wage levels are as shocking as upper level wages

 

[valefan16]

I am a band 3 nhs worker....that isNt their lowest band and I’m only on 21500

lots of people are in jobs about 18000-20000

lower league football wage levels are as shocking as upper level wages

Its a tough one though because lets say your as league two player on 52k a year say (1k a week) yet someone employed only 2 levels above in the Championship could be on as much as 30-40 times more than you and three levels above up to around 350 times!

So if you look at it that way is it that shocking being on 1-2k at this level?

The problem with wages stems from the top.

Is anyone worth £350 grand a week for kicking a pig bladder around a field or £100 Million to hire someone to kick a big bladder around... crazy.

Port Vale's "glory years" are from the 1990's when we had a competitive second tier side and most of them from just 20 odd years ago had to get normal jobs after. How the wages rose is beyond comprehension in the sport.

 

[Devon_Lad]

I am a band 3 nhs worker....that isNt their lowest band and I’m only on 21500

lots of people are in jobs about 18000-20000

lower league football wage levels are as shocking as upper level wages

What the hell has an nhs workers salary got to do with a footballers wage?

The fact of the matter is you're asking a league 2 footballer, to be paid below an average salary. For no reason whatsoever, irrespective of if they're worth more than that to their club and the club want to pay them more.

By the way, if you want to cap wages from the private sector, then your nhs pay will be going down a lot too! Someone has to pay your salary. That's all those people who you want to have a pay-cut, because... Well who knows

 

[Monkey Tennis]

I am a band 3 nhs worker....that isNt their lowest band and I’m only on 21500

lots of people are in jobs about 18000-20000

lower league football wage levels are as shocking as upper level wages

The irony is that some of your bosses are on League 1 wages for doing fuck all.

It's more a point that people doing proper meaningful work should be paid more, rather than lower league footballers being paid less.

 

[Devon_Lad]

The irony is that some of your bosses are on League 1 wages for doing fuck all.

It's more a point that people doing proper meaningful work should be paid more, rather than lower league footballers being paid less.

The NHS are paid exceptionally well. Not only are they set with a massive pension, they're given pay increases every single year. They have it much, much better than most in the private sector.

 

[Devon_Lad]

Is anyone worth £350 grand a week for kicking a pig bladder around a field or £100 Million to hire someone to kick a big bladder around... crazy.

Yes. You're worth whatever someone wants to pay you. That's £125 grand a week going to HMRC by the way.

That's £6,500,000 a year in tax revenue. How many band 3 nurses could that pay for?

 

[valefan16]

Yes. You're worth whatever someone wants to pay you. That's £125 grand a week going to HMRC by the way.

That's £6,500,000 a year in tax revenue. How many band 3 nurses could that pay for?

I meant in the grand scheme of it all.

I have to be honest if my boss offered me £350k a week I would snap your hand of for it but in comparison to other jobs it doesnt add up.

 

[Devon_Lad]

I meant in the grand scheme of it all.

I have to be honest if my boss offered me £350k a week I would snap your hand of for it but in comparison to other jobs it doesnt add up.

Why doesn't it add up? Forget any public sector jobs, in the private sector if you generated tens of millions for your business, your wage would reflect that. Shirt sales and merch, getting people through the gates, the top quality football produced to get TV deals because that many people want to watch.

It literally makes perfect sense. If it didn't make sense, the money wouldn't be paid.

Prem clubs lost £400m last year total. A ridiculous amount, but pocket change in reality given one transfer is worth £100m+ these days.

 

[Casey]

I meant in the grand scheme of it all.

I have to be honest if my boss offered me £350k a week I would snap your hand of for it but in comparison to other jobs it doesnt add up.

Thats the nub of it right there. If a company up the road from you offered you an extra grand a week for doing the same job you'd be an idiot to say no. The players are the same.

On the thread regarding the proposed bail out of the EFL by the Premier league I said something on the lines of what concessions would they ask for. This could well be one.

Casey

 

[Monkey Tennis]

The NHS are paid exceptionally well. Not only are they set with a massive pension, they're given pay increases every single year. They have it much, much better than most in the private sector.

They aren't paid well, hence why they have to recruit most their nurses and doctors from abroad. And why loads of doctors are starting to move abroad to get a decent wage. And they aren't given a pay rise every year! My mum's a nurse and had one pay rise in 10 years, way above the levels of inflation.

I think you are thinking of consultants and NHS managers.

 

[Devon_Lad]

They aren't paid well, hence why they have to recruit most their nurses and doctors from abroad. And why loads of doctors are starting to move abroad to get a decent wage. And they aren't given a pay rise every year! My mum's a nurse and had one pay rise in 10 years, way above the levels of inflation.

I think you are thinking of consultants and NHS managers.

They get a payrise annually, as do all public sector workers. Above inflation or not is completely irrelevant. Private sector doesn't get it.

NHS managers are even more an issue. Top heavy. But that's a separate issue.

NHS staff has gone up rapidly year on year, and more are needed. That's an issue from recruitment not over the past decade not a money issue. Training nurses etc.

Don't get me started on the pensions.

Regardless. Public sector work paid by tax payers isn't comparable at all to footballers. Wish people would stop pretending it is.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

They get a payrise annually, as do all public sector workers. Above inflation or not is completely irrelevant. Private sector doesn't get it.

NHS managers are even more an issue. Top heavy. But that's a separate issue.

NHS staff has gone up rapidly year on year, and more are needed. That's an issue from recruitment not over the past decade not a money issue. Training nurses etc.

Don't get me started on the pensions.

Regardless. Public sector work paid by tax payers isn't comparable at all to footballers. Wish people would stop pretending it is.

They're not pay rises if they're not at least at levels of inflation!

"Average pay for all nurses – regardless of which salary category they fall into – has fallen by 7.4 per cent since the year ending August 2010, when the NHS started publishing such statistics."

So yes, nurses and doctors should be paid better. As was the original point.

 

[valefan16]

Thats the nub of it right there. If a company up the road from you offered you an extra grand a week for doing the same job you'd be an idiot to say no. The players are the same.

On the thread regarding the proposed bail out of the EFL by the Premier league I said something on the lines of what concessions would they ask for. This could well be one.

Casey

Exactly I don't blame the players as 99.99% would take it if offered.

 

[#Beebot]

This reminds me of the "soldiers should get footballers wages" article from a few years back.

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This domain may be for sale!

supportersnotcustomers.com

 

[Devon_Lad]

They're not pay rises if they're not at least at levels of inflation!

Yes they are.

No doctors and nurses shouldn't be paid more.

They have the choice to go private if they want more money. Don't take more taxes from an already ridiculous high tax country! Largest tax burden in over 50 years pre Covid. Tax is essentially theft, anyone arguing for higher taxes is morally bankrupt.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

What the hell has an nhs workers salary got to do with a footballers wage?

The fact of the matter is you're asking a league 2 footballer, to be paid below an average salary. For no reason whatsoever, irrespective of if they're worth more than that to their club and the club want to pay them more.

By the way, if you want to cap wages from the private sector, then your nhs pay will be going down a lot too! Someone has to pay your salary. That's all those people who you want to have a pay-cut, because... Well who knows

I am just highlighting the fact that football players at L2 level get paid as Ridiculous levels of money as other levels and football at this level could be easily sustainable but isn’t simply down to everyone paying over the top sums to very poorly skilled people in this profession.

simply basic annual wage levels across different leagues would make the whole sport more viable, but instead it’s all over the shop.

It has had 15 years to say ‘enough is enough’ and done nothing. To have surgeons on a maybe half of the annual wage of a few level 4 footballers is absurd........more so when it never balances its books in normal times and has to beg the top flight all the time.

hopefully this is finally a chance for change, probably won’t, government ain’t bailing this one out