Managerial Merry-Go-Round 2020/21

[FishyMackem]

The new season is upon us and it's time to predict which managers will still be at their clubs at the end of the season...

 

[Luke Imp]

I think there are 6 in there who need good starts - Way, Lowe, Austin, Bunn, McGreal and Artell.

 

[Vanni]

I think there are 6 in there who need good starts - Way, Lowe, Austin, Bunn, McGreal and Artell.

I think you're right on Austin, Lowe and Bunn and quite possibly Artell, but not sure on Way and McGreal. At the top of my list I would definitely have Aspin, as all the Vale fans are all expecting a much better season than the one just gone by, and rightly so too IMO. I would imagine so will PV's BOD after backing Aspin in the transfer market, and Aspin being a Vale legend will not stop them from sacking him if they get off to a bad start. Personally, I don't think they'll have a slow start and Aspin will be safe, but I'm sure they won't tolerate another poor season.

Then of course there are the promising managers that could change clubs mid way through the season. The Cowleys will always be in demand esp. if Lincoln get off to strong start, but there are other managers that are seen as highly promising such as Kewell, Nolan and Flynn.

FishyMackem - How about adding a poll to the thread? We sure like our polls down here in the L2 forum

 

[jbet]

I think you're right on Austin, Lowe and Bunn and quite possibly Artell, but not sure on Way and McGreal. At the top of my list I would definitely have Aspin, as all the Vale fans are all expecting a much better season than the one just gone by, and rightly so too IMO. I would imagine so will PV's BOD after backing Aspin in the transfer market, and Aspin being a Vale legend will not stop them from sacking him if they get off to a bad start. Personally, I don't think they'll have a slow start and Aspin will be safe, but I'm sure they won't tolerate another poor season.

Then of course there are the promising managers that could change clubs mid way through the season. The Cowleys will always be in demand esp. if Lincoln get off to strong start, but there are other managers that are seen as highly promising such as Kewell, Nolan and Flynn.

FishyMackem - How about adding a poll to the thread? We sure like our polls down here in the L2 forum

I'm not too sure. Aspin and John Rudge are seen as the good guys, and Norman Smurthwaite is seen as the bad guy. If we have another poor season then there will be some dissenting voices about Aspin's lack of ability - but most of the anger will be directed towards the owner. There's a fear that only the management team are holding the club together so there'd also be a wariness to 'force them out'.

In any case, I suspect we'll see some sort of improvement on last season (a big improvement if Miller and Pope strike up a decent partnership) and this conversation will be irrelevant.

Flitcroft, Lowe and Bunn look the most vulnerable to me.

 

[LongEatonPie]

As strange as it sounds I think Cooper at FGR might be under pressure if they are still fumbling around the bottom 5 in Decemeber.
Otherwise, Flitcroft - Mansfield, Bunn - Oldham, Bentley - Morcambe and Brown - Swindon.
Outside bet Sheridan - Cambridge

 

[JJ1532]

I think there are 6 in there who need good starts - Way, Lowe, Austin, Bunn, McGreal and Artell.

Nah. Artell should be the last on any firing sweepstake list. Our board do not sack managers. They've sacked 3 managers in the last 37 years. It took them way too long to sack Steve Holland(yes, current England assistant manager). They appointed a dreadful replacement. They then let Dario go on for too long before he moved upstairs. They then let Steve Davis flounder for 3 1/2 seasons of terrible football and a relegation before he was sacked. Our board are useless at hiring and firing managers. Artell will be no different in the sense that even if he has a flat out dreadful start, they'll keep him in charge. The only way he gets fired is if we are bottom come Christmas and are staring a drop into the non-leagues in the face. Anything better than that and they'll stick with him.

Don't put any money on him being fired, it would be a waste of time.

 

[Luke Imp]

I think you're right on Austin, Lowe and Bunn and quite possibly Artell, but not sure on Way and McGreal. At the top of my list I would definitely have Aspin, as all the Vale fans are all expecting a much better season than the one just gone by, and rightly so too IMO. I would imagine so will PV's BOD after backing Aspin in the transfer market, and Aspin being a Vale legend will not stop them from sacking him if they get off to a bad start. Personally, I don't think they'll have a slow start and Aspin will be safe, but I'm sure they won't tolerate another poor season.

Then of course there are the promising managers that could change clubs mid way through the season. The Cowleys will always be in demand esp. if Lincoln get off to strong start, but there are other managers that are seen as highly promising such as Kewell, Nolan and Flynn.

FishyMackem - How about adding a poll to the thread? We sure like our polls down here in the L2 forum

I threw Way and McGreal in there because there didn't seem too much goodwill for them last season. They seem like ones who'll never seem to win over enough of the fanbase to get through one or two sticky patches.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Flitcroft at Mansfield is going to be a repeat of that Bury season two years ago, so I cannot see him lasting long if Mansfield wants promotion.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Flitcroft will only be under pressure from the fans to get result early. Radford doesn’t sack managers, Unless we end up fighting relegation he won’t sack Flitcroft.

 

[valefan16]

We’ve sacked legends before and even Adams was forced out after a poor start so you never know but would be surprised to see Aspin go. He’s a god at Vale Park from his playing days during our greatest years and backed by John Rudge as DOF our greatest ever manager (and of 16 years too!) pressure would firmly be on Smurthwaite especially after the money we’ve raked in on selling Grant and Alnwick and the huge sell on we got for Hugills 10 million quid move to West Ham from PNE. (Along with some cash for Morsy leaving Chesterfield) Smurthwaites decisions in the previous two seasons have taken us from top half league one to having to stop the rot after nearly going out the league, of that Aspin is blameless. (Arguably performed a miracle to save us).

If I was a betting man I think Lowe would be the most likely... as said before just seem like us a year behind... surprising they stuck with Lowe as we were with Brown, losing mentality at the club after 18 horrific months or so and even having a decent striker at this level is no guarantee as we had Pope last year hit 19 on one leg for half a season!

I think he will go early if Bury struggle and they’ll be forced to look for some experience.

Maybe some pressure on the three big spenders if they have a bad start... Cowley and Nolan likely safe but Flitcroft would need a good start.

 

[KeithH]

We’ve sacked legends before and even Adams was forced out after a poor start so you never know but would be surprised to see Aspin go. He’s a god at Vale Park from his playing days during our greatest years and backed by John Rudge as DOF our greatest ever manager (and of 16 years too!) pressure would firmly be on Smurthwaite especially after the money we’ve raked in on selling Grant and Alnwick and the huge sell on we got for Hugills 10 million quid move to West Ham from PNE. (Along with some cash for Morsy leaving Chesterfield) Smurthwaites decisions in the previous two seasons have taken us from top half league one to having to stop the rot after nearly going out the league, of that Aspin is blameless. (Arguably performed a miracle to save us).

If I was a betting man I think Lowe would be the most likely... as said before just seem like us a year behind... surprising they stuck with Lowe as we were with Brown, losing mentality at the club after 18 horrific months or so and even having a decent striker at this level is no guarantee as we had Pope last year hit 19 on one leg for half a season!

I think he will go early if Bury struggle and they’ll be forced to look for some experience.

Maybe some pressure on the three big spenders if they have a bad start... Cowley and Nolan likely safe but Flitcroft would need a good start.

Would have agreed but bringing in Rob Kelley as assistant should provide the experience Ryan Lacks.
Only time will tell mind and we could very easily continue to be a right basket case of a club.

 

[Si Robin]

If you want a decent outside bet, then make it Gary Johnson.

Unless he pulls a couple of rabbits out of hats before the transfer window closes, and unless we get off to a decent start, then a lot of fans are going to be quick to get on his back. With a change of chairman as well, he doesn't have his biggest backer on the board.

A few defeats to get the season underway and GJ could very well be off.

 

[AdamStag]

Flitcroft will only be under pressure from the fans to get result early. Radford doesn’t sack managers, Unless we end up fighting relegation he won’t sack Flitcroft.

The fans will give him a little time given pre-season. Play as we have been like that in the league and we’ll be just fine.

 

[Conker]

Radford will give Flitcroft loads of time, different story with the fans lol.

Flitcroft job is probably one of the safest in the division unless we carry on his form when he joined last seasons

 

[cufc17]

Can see Sheridan walking before the season’s out, maybe even before Christmas if we get off to an especially bad start. I can see casualties at Bury, Cambridge, Oldham, Port Vale and Stevenage, I’ll go Lowe first sacking.

 

[MrGloverLover]

We won't sack Way, he's too cheap an option for our board to do that.

 

[Habbinalan]

As strange as it sounds I think Cooper at FGR might be under pressure if they are still fumbling around the bottom 5 in Decemeber.
Otherwise, Flitcroft - Mansfield, Bunn - Oldham, Bentley - Morcambe and Brown - Swindon.
Outside bet Sheridan - Cambridge

You'd get decent odds on Joe Dunne going before January, never mind U's chasing Sheridan then dumping him (probably for off-field issues??).

 

[Habbinalan]

I'm not sure why folk would think Joe Dunne is particularly vulnerable at the Abbey.

Jim Bentley is the only reason Morecambe are still in the league, despite the impact his approach seems to have on their gates. With the new money, he should be well placed to fill up with decent loans from the NW, as per usual.

The only way I could see him going would be ructions with the new investors or a desparate approach from the likes of Carlisle, Tranmere, Bury or Oldham because they're in the relegation mire.

Very dependent on the owner/chairman situation. A fish rots from the head. Manager appointments and sackings or retention through hard times are often a reflection of either stability/instability in the boardroom or stagnation/new brooms in ownership.

I'll be surprised if Joe Dunne and Mark Bonner are not still in charge at the Abbey in 12 months time, even if we've flirted with relegation or finished with another mid-table deflation of hopes. That would change should new investment come over the horizon to let lifelong supporter and majority shareholder Paul Barry step back. That said, bullishness in the supporter base is at the usual pre-season high and rising - despite our (on paper) fragile looking strike force.

Lots of trigger happy owners and bullshit spouting managers out there if promotion aspirations are not met most seasons but I think less so this time around. Mansfield and Swindon look ripe for ructions if things don't go well but both owners are unlikely to jump early.

With the tight table, I think threat of relegation is likely to be the major driver that could impact on the thoughts of half the teams in the division by January. John Sheridan's inability to motivate the Notts County squad when things were going wrong, combined with the Cumbrian's recruitment to date, suggests to me that he'll be one of the first gone despite the level of inertia in their boardroom.

The relatively new faces at Vale, Grimsby, Oldham and Bury look vulnerable to a poor start, as does Mellon at Tranmere.

Apart from ourselves, the set ups that look most stable, because of a combination of expectations and a stable boardroom/ownership situation, include the likes of Crawley, Crewe, Exeter, Newport Lincoln, MK and Stevenage.

 

[hellogregory]

Can see Sheridan walking before the season’s out, maybe even before Christmas if we get off to an especially bad start. I can see casualties at Bury, Cambridge, Oldham, Port Vale and Stevenage, I’ll go Lowe first sacking.

Same.

I reckon a bad start and he’ll jack by October.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Lowe is gonna be the first to get canned I'm confident of it.

Frankie Bunn, Darren Way, Dean Austin and Dino Maamria will also be under fire if they don't start well. Bunn and Austin manage trigger happy clubs like Lowe does. Way has gone so stale at Yeovil and can't see the Maamria experiment working at Stevenage. John Sheridan if he's not backed will hang in there and wait for a pay-off too like at previous clubs he's managed.

Two more managers who'll be gone if they start badly are Gary Johnson (who a minority of Cheltenham fans have wanted gone for over a year now) and Neil Aspin because, club legend or not, Vale fans have never tolerated being in the bottom half of any division as long as I've been listening to Radio Stoke. And I think they'll personally be there for the bulk of this season too. Not in the relegation scrap, but not troubling the playoffs either.

But Artell won't be sacked unless we're really in the thick of it at the bottom, and for once, I'm confident we won't be this year.

 

[valefan16]

Lowe is gonna be the first to get canned I'm confident of it.

Frankie Bunn, Darren Way, Dean Austin and Dino Maamria will also be under fire if they don't start well. Bunn and Austin manage trigger happy clubs like Lowe does. Way has gone so stale at Yeovil and can't see the Maamria experiment working at Stevenage. John Sheridan if he's not backed will hang in there and wait for a pay-off too like at previous clubs he's managed.

Two more managers who'll be gone if they start badly are Gary Johnson (who a minority of Cheltenham fans have wanted gone for over a year now) and Neil Aspin because, club legend or not, Vale fans have never tolerated being in the bottom half of any division as long as I've been listening to Radio Stoke. And I think they'll personally be there for the bulk of this season too. Not in the relegation scrap, but not troubling the playoffs either.

But Artell won't be sacked unless we're really in the thick of it at the bottom, and for once, I'm confident we won't be this year.

Most Vale fans are not expecting a fast turnaround due to the sheer mess Aspin has inherited, barring a disaster start like last season he’s unlikely to be under pressure as most expect a season of consolidation to try and start the process of recovery rather than blitzing the play offs with another high turnover this summer to undo the mess Brown left him with.

We have some OTT fans, a pre season loss to last seasons league one play off finalists has caused some meltdown but in general as long as we are not in the relegation scrap which with the players we’ve signed we shouldn’t be then id be very surprised to see Aspin under pressure. We need to build foundations after having to rebuild season after season following the Bruno gamble.

 

[Si Robin]

If you want a decent outside bet, then make it Gary Johnson.

Unless he pulls a couple of rabbits out of hats before the transfer window closes, and unless we get off to a decent start, then a lot of fans are going to be quick to get on his back. With a change of chairman as well, he doesn't have his biggest backer on the board.

A few defeats to get the season underway and GJ could very well be off.

Did anyone take my advice - less than a week and Johnson will be gone.

 

[FGR Stroud]

Did anyone take my advice - less than a week and Johnson will be gone.

Your posts beg the question: did you take a punt at GJ being first out of the door?

 

[Si Robin]

I only wish I had - there was too much of me hoping he'd get it right this time, but it's clear that's not going to happen.

 

[FGR Stroud]

I only wish I had - there was too much of me hoping he'd get it right this time, but it's clear that's not going to happen.

A serious and genuine question:
Cheltenham play Macclesfield on Tuesday. A loss would put Cheltenham in automatic relegation spot. Even a draw could perhaps do the same.
Reading your post concerning manager Gary Johnson, which is similar to many from Cheltenham fans, do the Cheltenham supporters want to lose and thus immediately hasten departure of GJ or want a win and almost certainly expect the agony to continue?
It is a bloody difficult dilemma so early in season.

 

[Si Robin]

As per my post in the midweek thread. I never want Cheltenham to lose, I'd love nothng more than for us to beat Macclesfield, then Cambridge on Saturday, Johnson to bring in a goalscoring forward and then to go on a great run to midtable obscurity.

The evidence suggests that isn't going to happen though.

That being said, there are probably a few fans who will take a defeat tomorrow if it means the end of Johnson. Lose the battle to win the war, so to speak.

 

[The_Boss]

As per my post in the midweek thread. I never want Cheltenham to lose, I'd love nothng more than for us to beat Macclesfield, then Cambridge on Saturday, Johnson to bring in a goalscoring forward and then to go on a great run to midtable obscurity.

The evidence suggests that isn't going to happen though.

That being said, there are probably a few fans who will take a defeat tomorrow if it means the end of Johnson. Lose the battle to win the war, so to speak.

I'm fine with that.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

It's a funny one with Cheltenham. They're going through what we did with Steve Davis. A promotion winning manager that went absolutely stale and it took 3 and a half years to get rid of him. I knew we'd struggle when we were in League One but completely being at odds with our ethos, playing 5 loanees a game and having utter contempt for the fans was the reason I wanted him binned. Struggling in League Two with our generous budget for this level was also unacceptable.

The thing is with Cheltenham, yes they've been in League One in the past and they were a very good side for this level in the early part of this decade. But what are the aims for the club now? I assume their budget is one of the smaller ones in the league but from what I've seen there's a mix of fans wanting Johnson out for going stale and for recruiting poorly (which I totally agree with considering the Eisa windfall gives him no excuses not to recruit well) and a few of the younger lads thinking a change in manager will get them challenging for promotion which I doubt. I remember there was a long campaign to get Yates out at Cheltenham for years (arguably your best manager since John Ward) and then that spectacularly backfired. Be funny if Yates actually got Johnson sacked tomorrow.

When we sacked Davis there was a clear succession plan in place and now we're far better off as we've got our identity back. But who would Cheltenham want to take over them if Johnson leaves?

That said, with the forward line Cheltenham now have, if that's not rectified by the 31st August they're going to be in very big trouble this year...

 

[Si Robin]

I'd say you're mostly right in what you say, but a few things.

I was one of the very last to turn on Yates, he was sacked on the Tuesday after the Wycombe game, which is when I turned. What backfired was a board member being close friends with one of Paul Buckle's people. His appointment is what relegated us, not the sacking of Mark Yates (although I think we'd have made a better fist of staying up under Yates).

Yates should arguably have gone that summer, but you're right, a number of fans wanted him out a year earlier for not getting us near the playoffs - the majority felt he deserved another season.

With Gary Johnson there's some subtle differences. He's had a lot of off-field issues (similar to Yates, whose were of his own doing) and I think that this has caused him to lose focus. I should point out, that I'm not criticising him for this, if I'd had a heart bypass, then an illness that could have killed me, and then lost my younger brother I too would lose focus at work. The problem is, he can't really have a break and just come back so he's got to just get on with it. Someone put on Twitter on Saturday, Johnson just needs a break from everything for a month or two, with no stress from the football, and to help him get his love for the game back. What we need is someone who's already in that position.

His record with us in the football league is appalling, we've also won only 5 of the last 25 League games, 1 in the last 10. That 1 came against a diabolical Morecambe team who arguably should have gone down and would have if the season had one more game in it. He's actually only won 26 games in 102 in the Football League. It's not just gone stale, it's simply never been good enough in the Football League.

In his interview today he's started turning on those who have called for his head, we all know he's not going to win here and we all know it's going one way. The board could, and should, have let him go on Saturday, by not doing it they've simply delayed the inevitable.

As for who will replace him, all Cheltenham fans would love Steve Cotterill to come back, but he won't ever tarnish what he achieved at the club. After the chairman's interview with the local rag last week, the red hot favourite, oddly, would be Lee Carsley. Apparently he's good mates with the chairman. Another name in the reckoning would be Jerry Gill who's doing a decent job at Bath City. In terms of recent league managers, I'd like to see Gary Bowyer, but I don't think he'll come down this way.

 

[King Kev]

Lowe is gonna be the first to get canned I'm confident of it.

Frankie Bunn, Darren Way, Dean Austin and Dino Maamria will also be under fire if they don't start well. Bunn and Austin manage trigger happy clubs like Lowe does. Way has gone so stale at Yeovil and can't see the Maamria experiment working at Stevenage. John Sheridan if he's not backed will hang in there and wait for a pay-off too like at previous clubs he's managed.

Two more managers who'll be gone if they start badly are Gary Johnson (who a minority of Cheltenham fans have wanted gone for over a year now) and Neil Aspin because, club legend or not, Vale fans have never tolerated being in the bottom half of any division as long as I've been listening to Radio Stoke. And I think they'll personally be there for the bulk of this season too. Not in the relegation scrap, but not troubling the playoffs either.

But Artell won't be sacked unless we're really in the thick of it at the bottom, and for once, I'm confident we won't be this year.

Sorry, wading in a tad belatedly here. Lowe manages a trigger happy club, really? The only trigger happy sacking we have carried out was Chris Lucketti. And love him or not as a player, his arrival heralded 7 defeats in 8, a fair few mind boggling team selections, no goals, and our full strength side going out of the JPT or whatever it is called, to a Fleetwood side that made 11 changes. We were already in a desperate position with the chairman's daft promotion gamble hugely backfiring. Granted we were relegated with an utter whimper anyway, but at least Lowe gave us two months of putting up a fight before it all somewhat pathetically petered out.
Flitcroft and Clark were shown remarkable patience by our chairman. In fact I'd say Flitcroft was our equivalent to your Davis, except our chairman sacked him at the right time, or too late, pending who you speak to. If we were trigger happy, with the way we were relegated under Lowe last season do you think he'd have been given the job permenantly?
It is far too early to judge Lowe, but he does have an incredibly experienced assistant, a director of football and an ex teammate from our 2011 promotion season as part of his backroom staff. Our chairman appears to have finally dropped his ridiculous, gung ho approach to getting us to the championship and it appears consolidation is the objective this season. I will be very surprised if he is sacked, if he is, it will come after our chairman has given him sufficient time to turn any bad run we are on around.