Relegation Thread 2018-19 Cancelled? FL Propose Changes

[Kenneth E End]

Uncle Barry has bought Orient back then?

 

[Optogas]

This stinks, my guess is create the league promise no prem b teams Will be included, promote eight teams from non league and parachute the b teams in as straight replacements. Sell it to the conference as think of the extra money, your teams playing against the stars of the future etc.... Then slowly each B team will get into the league, slowly moving up until they reach the championship if enough of them can keep winning it then won't be allowed promotion and the Prem becomes a closed shop.

 

[hellogregory]

How exactly will clubs increase revenue by reducing 4 games per season? That probably works out at £100,000 a season for us.

Exactly what I was wondering.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Looks like they think less midweek games mean bigger Saturday crowds

 

[JJ1532]

How exactly will clubs increase revenue by reducing 4 games per season? That probably works out at £100,000 a season for us.

Not to mention the fact that season ticket prices would have to come down, because you can't ask fans to pay the same amount for 19 games as they would be expected to pay for 23. Currently our ST holders are paying £12.60 per game. That goes up to £15.26 if there are only 19 home games. Clubs would have to lower prices surely?

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

Not to mention the fact that season ticket prices would have to come down, because you can't ask fans to pay the same amount for 19 games as they would be expected to pay for 23. Currently our ST holders are paying £12.60 per game. That goes up to £15.26 if there are only 19 home games. Clubs would have to lower prices surely?

I agree, they won't ask fans to pay the same. Can guarantee that prices for a season ticket will be higher than they are now.

 

[JJ1532]

I agree, they won't ask fans to pay the same. Can guarantee that prices for a season ticket will be higher than they are now.

Eh? How does that work?

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

Eh? How does that work?

Make up for lost income. It'll be rebranded as an exciting new era in FL100 and the future of football for a mere extortionate amount per season to watch Crewe play the worlds best youngsters in an exciting season involving Manchester United B and Eastleigh. That's how.

 

[LongEatonPie]

Bear in mind this whole effect slides down the pyramid too. We've just gotten back to step 5, and could be back at step 6 without being relegated. Noooo thank you. None of what they propose is appealing to me.

The National League is Step 1, my club (my avatar is Step 5), Hereford FC just won promotion out of our division to Step 4 which is basically the Evo-Stick level. At the moment, there is just one promotion place from our division.
If this does go ahead the restructuring will have to go right down to Step 6 which is the (basement of amateur/semi professional clubs).

It will need serious compensation from TV to lower the blow of the missing home games per season.
I am leaning towards being in favour though, but only just.

 

[Kenneth E End]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that central funding per season is as follows:

Championship - £6.5m
League 1 - £750,000
League 2 - £650,000

If these proposals go through, these amounts need to grow substantially (probably double), as well as increases in funding for youth development at EPPP3 clubs. On the second point, it used to cost Luton Town £400,000 a season outside of the FL to maintain our academy. And in the FL, only the money that is put into the club by directors/club funds is matched by the central authorities.

There's no reason why more money shouldn't filter down into the lower leagues, especially with the recent new TV deals. The PL will always say that its a private members club and the FL is in reality nothing to do with them. That said, with higher funding, clubs will still overspend. I find it ridiculous that there are 4th division footballers on around £150-200,000pa.

I'd only back this IF substantial financial incentives are offered, there is no "aggressive" relegation in the transition season, B teams are off the table totally (although like the Scottish/EU referendum, it would still be back on the table x amount of years later) and the JPT is scrapped.

 

[Kenneth E End]

To make it work, there needs to be 1 division relegated per season up to the end of the 2017/18 season - I think it would be a case of one more team being relegated per division until you get 89 teams in 2017/18 - obviously this would have a transitional impact in the National League. In the 2018/19 season, there would be 22 teams in the each of the existing FL teams, with a new League 3 with 20 teams, but this would be a 106 team FL. It wouldn't be until 2020/21 until you got 100 teams.

 

[ProfessorGreen]

This isn't right, saying relegation to be 'scrapped'. More teams would actually get relegated from L2, as 2019 season those who finish in the bottom 12 are playing in the 4th tier, whereas then 2020 season they're playing in the 5th tier. Isn't the definition of relegation in football moving down a league?

Other than that phrasing I don't have too much of a problem with the idea as the fixture list is incredibly packed in as it is.

 

[TimeyWimey]

Reading the official statement, I don't get the FL's sudden hatred of midweek fixtures?

Had a slap on the wrist for treading on Champions League toes?

 

[pontoonlew]

Reading the official statement, I don't get the FL's sudden hatred of midweek fixtures?

Had a slap on the wrist for treading on Champions League toes?

In reality it's nothing to do with mid week fixtures.

They just needed some glitter to roll their turd in.

 

[shoddycollins]

Top notch BBC reporting. Anyone notice the error?

They should ask for Jimmy Hill's opinion on it.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

The thing that always gets me is this constant fixation to turn English football into anything else but English football.

Its always trying to copy every other country and 'be like' Spain or Germany or Italy etc etc ditch the cups........they don't have cups, be 18-20 teams.......they have less teams, have a winter break......they do abroad, dismiss lower leagues and make it about a top flight b team feeder league instead.....they do this in Spain and Germany.

Why cannot we for once just say English football is fantastic, we love our style, we love endless games, we love our massed league ladder, we love cold, wet Tuesday night games, we love ridiculous Christmas schedules with silly amounts of games...... We love the lot and we always have.

Why on earch we want to be like other countries with no away fans, less games, non existent football after top 6-7 clubs, a pathetic uncaring set-up focused on ignoring all but 2-3 huge sides, bland cups.

This scheme here is just to introduce b teams or premiership 2 or winter break.....make us more like elsewhere so suddenly we'll have 100 barcelona's of course

 

[shoddycollins]

I don't really get the obsession the powers that be have with the England team, international football is nice and all, something to watch during the summer but every cockamamie scheme they put forward for reforming the League always seems to be for the benefit of the England side. I'd rather see international football disband (and the way FIFA are going, it may well be) than club football decimated to benefit it.

The changes proposed here don't seem all that radical, going from 4 divisions of 20,24,24,24 to 5 divisions of 20,20,20,20,20 (I figure the National league's response to losing its 8 biggest teams might be to become North/South), though I'm not hugely keen on the principle of more-smaller divisions, it just makes moving up and down the league slightly less meaningful and slightly more of a slog, and many teams will find an extra division crowbarred in between themselves and where they want to be, and it does seem like this is a handy way to get B teams back on the agenda.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

I hate the English style to be fair. I like the league structure though!

Also, I'm still waiting for someone to point out how it actually benefits the England team.

 

[shoddycollins]

This isn't right, saying relegation to be 'scrapped'. More teams would actually get relegated from L2, as 2019 season those who finish in the bottom 12 are playing in the 4th tier, whereas then 2020 season they're playing in the 5th tier. Isn't the definition of relegation in football moving down a league?

Other than that phrasing I don't have too much of a problem with the idea as the fixture list is incredibly packed in as it is.

Yeah, if relegation from League 2 to the National League were retained for that season, then someone finishing in the relegation zone of step 4 would find themselves starting the next season in step 6.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I hate the English style to be fair. I like the league structure though!

Also, I'm still waiting for someone to point out how it actually benefits the England team.

At first I thought it a b team plan, but I think this is a premiership plan to reduce to 18 teams and have a winter break....that is why I think they don't commit to saying sides will be printed into it.

Then think league 4-5 will go norrh/south.

Carlisle board would vote yes to this, Carlisle fans won't

 

[George Reilly's Hairpiece]

It doesn't benefit the England side, but if you throw another rubbish out there you'll get the odd person that will say, "Yes I like the idea of it helping the England team" despite there being no evidence of this whatsoever.

The clue to the real driving force around this is the re-branding of The Football League to the EFL with The Championship the flagship division. They want to make The Championship more like the Premier League, reducing the quantity of games with the idea of increasing the quality and making the campaign less of a slog. They can't relegate four teams out of the league and the can't shove more teams into an overcrowded league 1 and 2, so they have to find another way... League 3.

 

[Gashead]

Reading the official statement, I don't get the FL's sudden hatred of midweek fixtures?

Had a slap on the wrist for treading on Champions League toes?

I get the impression its to do with TV viewing figures to be honest.

Unless there was some kind of huge financial benefit for FL clubs I don't really understand why the clubs would back it. The 'positives' exist currently, and there's more negatives for clubs outside of the FL.

 

[JonnyWomble]

We should bring banners to the playoff finals saying NO to the new proposals.

 

[pontoonlew]

I ran a quick guesstimate on how much this proposal could realistically cost Grimsby based on a fair estimation of ticket prices next season.

So let's presume we sell around 3k season tickets at a rough average of £330. Now let's not forget, the paying customer is going to feel a bit short changed by losing 4 games in a season and paying the same price, either the fans or the club end up paying more. Let's say for arguments sake the club are forced to take the prices down at the percentage of games we lose (about 17%) so now our tickets stand at £280 PP. The club loses £50 for each of the 3000 people. Works out at £150,000.

Now match days, say we get another 2,500 through the door paying £20 each. We lose that revenue 4x in the season, £200,000. So we stand at £350,000. Let's say 1/4 of those 5,500 spend £5 at the ground on food & drinks every week. £27,500 in lost revenue. Let's say 1000 buy a programme at £4, another £16,000.

Based on a few very rough calculations and gate figures that could get higher or lower throughout the season, that leaves us around £400,000 short. How are a club of our size meant to foot a bill like that?

'You can sign less players'

What we're going to spend £4000,000 less on wages for 4 less games? That's half our budget ffs.

'Less Travel costs for 4 games'

Doesn't scratch the surface.

They say it's there to help fans. What, by driving up already extortionate ticket prices? It's a disgraceful idea regardless of how you look at it.

 

[Flaxman's Alibi]

You can almost see the pulled looks on the faces of the Football League simpletons as they inch forward this idea; just hoping that the unwashed of the lower leagues kinda somehow get hoodwinked in to this shit with all of these major benefits.

I've not seen one instance that would be benefictial to a single club in League 2:

Win the championship/promotion - gain access to, erm, the same division that you've earned the right to leave.
Finish 13th - 24th - get relegated to the fifth flight and probably lose a promotion place in to the bargain.
Lose 4 fixtures - although neither the clubs nor their supporters desire less fixtures.
Eliminate games under the lights - which should be part of the education of every young football fan

The upside?
Well, for one season only, you won't be relegated to the Conference (although half of you will still find yourself in the fifth tier) - Marvellous.

 

[Kenneth E End]

Supposedly the amount offered by the Premier League to offset this lost revenue is as follows:

Championship teams: £626,000
League One: £185,000
League Two: £119,000
Works out at £22.3m from the Premier League per season, out of x billion.

That is no where near enough.

 

[Silver Stone]

That's it? Fuck off Premier League.

 

[shoddycollins]

If this were being brought in this season then presumably League 3 would look like this next season (order of finish this season)

Cambridge United
Carlisle United
Luton Town
Mansfield Town
Wycombe Wanderers
Exeter City
Barnet
Hartlepool United
Notts County
Stevenage
Yeovil Town
Crawley Town
Morecambe
Newport County
Dagenham and Redbridge
York City
Cheltenham Town
Forest Green Rovers
Braintree Town
Grimsby Town
Dover Athletic
Tranmere Rovers
Eastleigh
Wrexham

The only teams who probably wouldn't mind would be Daggers and York, everyone else has either been shunted down a division or in the case of those Conference teams who didn't get promoted this year, remaining at the same level but going from title challengers to possible relegation candidates (perhaps Tranmere and Wrexham would be pretty happy).

Also, FGR, Braintree, Dover and Eastleigh all in 'our' division... 'king hell.

Of course our owners would be arguining in favour of this because in their view it means we're a bigger team in comparison to the division we're in than we are now.

 

[Laker]

The new tv deal is £1.7bn per year isn't it? And they're offering us £0.02bn? Jesus wept.

Pontoonlew has summed it up above - I reached a similar value for us (£15 average ticket price x 5000 fans x 4 games + all other income such as programmes, food, drink etc). They're offering us £119k each to lose £300-£400k. Erm let me think about that for a second....

 

[Kenneth E End]

Actually, just to qualify my last statement - that is how much it would cost the Premier League to offset any costs. There is no suggestion yet that they are actually offering it.

At the moment, this is just a Football League initiative and the Premier League haven't commented officially to my knowledge.