"Rooney rule" in Football league...

[Habbinalan]

....in your opinion.

The argument (if there is one) isn't even, at its heart, about black managers at the moment. The proposal is an attempt to get better coaches and academy staff, opening more of these opportunities to potentially good coaches (and in due course managers) who will attract and bring through players (and coaches and managers) from across the range of communities that might contribute to our sport. Having developed an approach that would work there, why stop at first team managers, provided sensible exceptions are included?

Many of the arguments above might still be made for academy staff and coaches - I just don't agree with them.

 

[Habbinalan]

You can't interview one black minority ethnic, if one black minority ethnic doesn't want an interview.

But the proposal is that you interview IF there is an application. I guess you've been drawn in by lazy journalism. Do you know who wrote/said that? They must be assuming that if the opportunity is there applications would roll in.

 

[SF_]

But the proposal is that you interview IF there is an application.

The BBC article is extremely poorly written then.

 

[blademan89]

It's literally the worst 'rule' i've ever heard.

Couldnt agree more a complete load of bollox. The percentage of black people in england is about the same as the percentage of black managers in the football league. No need to be bringing in shit fucking yank rules.

 

[Habbinalan]

Also, If 6 black managers out of 72 isn't good enough, what amount is acceptable? baring in mind black people are a minority in the UK.

For me, it doesn't really matter how many there are - provided we all get a fair chance to go for a job or follow a career that suits our abilities and ambitions. 6 might or might not be a reflection of abilities in the current pool of managers.

I'm fairly sure that the number of players who didn't go into coaching because their ethnicity meant they saw it as a dead end are a loss to the game- but that's just an opinion.

 

[Habbinalan]

Couldnt agree more a complete load of bollox. The percentage of black people in england is about the same as the percentage of black managers in the football league. No need to be bringing in shit fucking yank rules.

Do you know the %age of black players in the game and how many of those, with the ability to become good coaches or academy staff, just move away from football at the end of their playing careers?

Anyway that's just supporting evidence that we are missing opportunities, it's not an argument for quotas.

 

[TomPNE94]

This all rests on whether you believe that Chairmen aren't interviewing potential coaches/managers because they are a minority. I personally don't believe that to be the case.

 

[Habbinalan]

This all rests on whether you believe that Chairmen aren't interviewing potential coaches/managers because they are a minority. I personally don't believe that to be the case.

I don't know them so I can't say.

However the Football League is governed by chairmen and directors of Football League clubs - they seem to have decided that they are missing out on attracting and developing the best coaching talent that might also strengthen community links and grow their fan base and income.

 

[HertsWolf]

It's a fairly divisive topic, and one which many here are probably avoiding for fear of angry responses, but I believe there should be some form of positive discrimination.
However, as with many other categorised imbalances (e.g. the lack of women in engineering and in senior director roles, the lack of young people in political parties, the lack of shop-floor representation on company boards, etc) the solution requires a number of interventions over an extended period of time and through a variety of means.
It would be good to see some form of study as to what would be the most effective method to increase the number of (perhaps historically) disadvantaged groups in senior management positions across sport. At least the possibility of the Rooney Rule is getting some debate going and getting people to think about it.

 

[blademan89]

Do you know the %age of black players in the game and how many of those, with the ability to become good coaches or academy staff, just move away from football at the end of their playing careers?

Anyway that's just supporting evidence that we are missing opportunities, it's not an argument for quotas.

The % of black players is far greater than the normal average of black people in any job in this country. Nobody moans that theres too many do they so why bring in shit rules just cos there not many in the management game.

 

[SF_]

For me, it doesn't really matter how many there are - provided we all get a fair chance to go for a job or follow a career that suits our abilities and ambitions. 6 might or might not be a reflection of abilities in the current pool of managers.

I'm fairly sure that the number of players who didn't go into coaching because their ethnicity meant they saw it as a dead end are a loss to the game- but that's just an opinion.

In this day and age i'd be surprised if people aren't being given a fair crack of the whip, this just seems a bit unnecessarily forced imo.

Obviously none of us know the mindset of each individual owner/ chairman though.

 

[Habbinalan]

The % of black players is far greater than the normal average of black people in any job in this country. Nobody moans that theres too many do they so why bring in shit rules just cos there not many in the management game.

I guess it's because they think things could be better. So much ability and talent, so much wasted opportunity.

 

[Habbinalan]

In this day and age i'd be surprised if people aren't being given a fair crack of the whip, this just seems a bit unnecessarily forced imo.

Obviously none of us know the mindset of each individual owner/ chairman though.

If we take race out of it, I think most of us know situations where people aren't given a fair crack of the whip, even in football. If that's so, I guess the question is could we and should we do something about it? I'm not sure that this rule is the best way forward but I think it is - I've seen the reactions for and against from black ex-players.

I hope the chairmen and directors in our clubs are giving it as much thought and consideration as we are. If nothing else, the initiative might have contributed to that deeper consideration of what's best for our clubs - and that's why I'm less influenced by some successful black managers and coaches feeling devalued by it.

 

[Womble98]

....in your opinion.

No, it isn't my opinion, I am simply stating the logic behind it. The point of contention is whether bme candidates are not given the chance to be interviewed because of their race. If you think that premise is wrong, the Rooney rule is stupid. If not, it is understandable.

 

[KevinMcallister]

John Barnes will be pleased

 

[slades_29]

Has the Rooney rule done the NFL any harm?

 

[infidel]

I have a hunch back a club foot am blind in one eye stutter and have a very small willy! will they be fair and give me a coaching job at Chelsea with the chosen one! Oh and I`m white! I do have the highest qualifications in coaching tho!

 

[Bobbin']

John Barnes will be pleased

I'm sure he'll have the pick of all the jobs now, with that glowing C.V it could have only been the fact that he is black that has held him back.

 

[WhiteRussian]

I absolutely hate any rules like this. It is racial discrimination just as much as if it was reversed. There is no such thing as positive discrimination.

Not valid in this case YET, but if someone gets a job because of his colour or quotas, he is always going to have the stigma of not getting the job on merit which isn't what anyone wants.

 

[KevinMcallister]

I'm sure he'll have the pick of all the jobs now, with that glowing C.V it could have only been the fact that he is black that has held him back.

when he was TRanmere boss, they played us at home, so alright we were good in league one, we beat them 3-0 uncontested, it's the first time i've ever seen a poor tactically set up team at ER, the fact it ended 3-0 was an injustice to Leeds, we had roughly 15 shots on target and hit the woodwork a few times, on any other day we could have won 6 or 7 nil

John Barnes looked clueless, praising us after the game but infact it was more his tactics than our attacking flair

 

[big mean bunny]

Not sure I understand the vitriol that some have been labelling at this. I presume that someone from the minority /sector in question, has researched the stats, figures and that this has been either asked for, or approved by the group it effects. Black footballers are very much not a minority in the British leagues, yet they are in coaching and manager jobs. There has to be a reason for that, as lots of ex players move into the coaching and technical side of the game after their playing careers, but we have this one group who are for some reason not represented at what is the next logical career step.

9 of the last 24 man England squad weren't white, 7 of the U21 squad just announced aren't, and that is purely going on appearance without any sort of insightful look into mixed race parenting, people who might be descendant from other countries etc. That is roughly over 40%.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

There's a huge gaping hole in the logic that because there is an under-representation of black managers compared to black footballers, that that necessarily means that a) it must be racist chairmen (consciously or otherwise) causing it, and b) that this rule could possibly remedy that problem even if it existed. You also can't look at current numbers of black players as a comparison, you have to look at the numbers of black players back when current managers were playing football. We're not like the US. We haven't had a large black population for a couple of hundred years, we talking about a black community that has exploded out of nowhere in the last 60 years or so. The current generation of black managers could never be representative of the current generation of black footballers.

 

[JoshBCFC]

Don't think the rule will make a difference. All it's doing is enforcing you to interview at least one black manager, which i find pointless because manager's should be picked because of how good a manager they are, not their skin color. Just the FA trying to say "look we are doing something about this problem" though they aren't.

 

[Madejski]

Agree that comparing the amount of Black players today to the amount of Black managers today is largely irrelevant. Firstly because the managers of today were players 10-15 years ago probably on average, so compare with black players then to be fair.

Not sure how much it has changed, but I remember reading the last time this discussion came about that 6% of managers are Black, 8% of Pro License holders are Black. So the actual disparity in that regard is limited. The question that should be asked is why black players aren't going into coaching and getting the right qualifications. Something which does need addressing and the Rooney rule does nothing to accomplish.

 

[Habbinalan]

Heather Rabbatts, Chair of The Football Association’s Inclusion Advisory Board, has today welcomed recommendations by the Football League to increase representation from black, Asian and minority ethnic minority coaches and managers.

She said: "The Football League's announcement is a significant moment for all of us involved in the game and ensuring that our collective commitment to securing representation of Black, Asian and ethnic minority coaches and managers is realised.

"The Rooney Rule provided a lightning rod across the NFL and The FA and our Inclusion Advisory Board has been working with colleagues to develop a response which together creates a step change.

"A crucial component in achieving this is the Football League and its 72 clubs. This agreement which includes mandatory rules for recruitment into academies together with identifying volunteer clubs to pilot new procedures designed to include BAME candidates on shortlists is a crucial development to increase opportunity and representation.

"It is only by collective action and shared responsibility that we will truly end discrimination and open up the pathways for talent. At The FA, there is a commitment to developing coaches throughout Club England, providing more education and pro licence opportunities for BAME candidates enabling them to apply for jobs, working with the PFA and LMA on the job ready list, and with the Premier League on its Elite Coach Apprenticeship Scheme (ECAS). We all play a role in making real our commitment to bring about change in this area."

Read more at http://www.football-league.co.uk/ne...eague-review-2483867.aspx#TZYsulGV6X43o1Cj.99

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

That's the problem with people like her, she thinks that under-representation is the problem, when at worst it's only the symptom.

 

[Scumarmy.]

John Barnes will be pleased

Paul 'iz it cos I'm black?' Ince too.

 

[WhiteRussian]

Scummy, he was OK first time round.

 

[Humongous Fungus]

Surely there should be a Rooney rule to increase the amount of white players, the percentage is far lower than the general population. White kids are being let down by institutional racism, due to percieved stereotypes of black kids being faster etc.. We need to be more like Germany/Spain.

Yes I'm hungover right now so can't word my opinion correctly but do minorities really get held back in sport? I don't think so at all.

 

[Habbinalan]

That's the problem with people like her, she thinks that under-representation is the problem, when at worst it's only the symptom.

To be fair, I don't think she and her like are shallow enough to think that "under-representation" is the problem. The level of representation is seen as evidence of a deeper problem, which many contributors to this thread don't think exists. I'm sure, myself, that this new approach is not going to be the solution - but it has raised the profile of the issue, provided evidence that a problem and opportunity have been recognised by the clubs and is a step towards getting a wider cross-section involved at all levels of the game - decision making as well as playing.