Saturday 16th November

[The_Viking_Magpie]

Like all of us it just educated guestimates. Could easily be the biggest this season, but god knows how it compares to the promoted 3 last season.

 

[leedsvaliant]

I've been told from someone that works within the club that we have the biggest budget in the league. It's the first time in 35 years of watching Vale that I can ever remember us having that status. We've spent potentially £750k+ on fees alone and you're not paying Stockley, Curtis, Byers etc. £500 per week. Moore is on at least £250k per year.

As others have said, our owners had a huge investment in their business and it looks like they really want to use that to push us on. The talk is that they want to get us to the Championship and then they would need other investment. They're very wealthy but you need billionaires once you get above league 1. My gut is that they'll want to give us one of the bigger budgets in league 1, should we get there. When we came up 2 years ago, the owners didn't have this wealth...they'll know now where our budget needs to be to compete at the top end of league 1. We've got to offset that some teams there get double or triple our crowds.

Lot of pressure comes with that though. Every other club will want to give us a bloody nose and no game is easy.

 

[GEORGE]

What is a derby then in your eyes?

Teams in the same City ot Town

 

[leedsvaliant]

No one.

There's a historic rivalry with Walsall that was a bit before my time.

Our only rivals are Stoke. End of discussion. I don't think it'll be too long until we're playing them again. I think their owners are trying to reduce the amount they spend on the football side of their business and they seem to be circling the drain into league 1 every year. They're the only other team I look out for results wise to see if they've lost. Couldn't give a crap how Crewe, Walsall etc. get on unless it might affect our position.

 

[leedsvaliant]

Teams in the same City ot Town

This. At school it was about 50/50 Stoke and Vale fans, with the odd glory hunting Man United fan.

Crewe are in a different county to us and it's not a place you'd every really go with living around the potteries. There's much nicer towns to visit like Leek, Macclesfield, Congleton and Buxton.

The only real commonality is that Crewe, for some reason, are covered on Radio Stoke. They were always seen as the smaller team up the road, with a lot of Liverpool and united fans going to watch them, with perhaps the only irk amongst fans being that they were always going on about playing 'the Crewe way', as though they were the football purists.

I'm kind of glad that they've ditched that, as they seemed to exist literally to blood their academy players, get promoted with real talent, sell them on for an astronomically over inflated fee, and then get relegated again. It always seemed to be an existence to line the pockets of the main protagonists rather than wanting to progress as a club. Seems like they've ditched that now as there's been very few big money fees for a while. They used to be able to add a zero on to transfer fees just because they were Crewe.

 

[lordofthepies]

don't really class Burton as a rivalry or a derby bizarrely despite us being in the same county.

Makes sense, I wouldn't call any games against any other a Cheshire team a derby. I wouldn't even really call any of them rivalries except for Chester and we haven't been in the same league as them since 1995.

 

[lordofthepies]

I think their owners are trying to reduce the amount they spend on the football side of their business and they seem to be circling the drain into league 1 every year.

I'm not sure that's true, they still spend fortunes and I think they'd spend more if they were allowed to under Championship profit and sustainability rules. It's just very funny that they keep making a real mess of it.

 

[lordofthepies]

The only real commonality is that Crewe, for some reason, are covered on Radio Stoke. They were always seen as the smaller team up the road, with a lot of Liverpool and united fans going to watch them, with perhaps the only irk amongst fans being that they were always going on about playing 'the Crewe way', as though they were the football purists.

I'm kind of glad that they've ditched that, as they seemed to exist literally to blood their academy players, get promoted with real talent, sell them on for an astronomically over inflated fee, and then get relegated again. It always seemed to be an existence to line the pockets of the main protagonists rather than wanting to progress as a club. Seems like they've ditched that now as there's been very few big money fees for a while. They used to be able to add a zero on to transfer fees just because they were Crewe.

We're covered on Radio Stoke because the BBC have never set up a separate station for South Cheshire, so Radio Stoke's mandate is to cover North Staffordshire and South Cheshire.

As mentioned earlier, I don't think that thing about Liverpool and Manchester United fans is true. I've been going for over 30 years and I don't know anyone like that.

As for the stuff about the academy - sort of. The academy is the reason we spent a decade in the Championship when other clubs of our size could only dream of reaching that level, never mind staying there. The academy is the thing that caused us to progress as a club. It definitely stalled for a while after we dropped out of the Championship (although we had a couple of very strong groups, who led us to some success), but we're now in a position where the academy produces more players than ever before, we just don't really sell to the Premier League anymore (I think there's a couple of reasons for that), the ambition seems to be to sell to the Championship and hope they go again and get us a good sell on fee.

Also, who do you think went for an inflated fee because they came from Crewe? I can't really think of anyone.

 

[Scum.]

I think we’ll see how wealthy our owners are when the January transfer window starts, but I’d guess Vale and us are the top two in that regard. Apparently ours are “very wealthy” whatever that means as no one has a clue really, our new Kuwaiti overlords are very private.

 

[DippyDon]

Vale would have had a bigger budget than Pete for sure, now though I'm not so sure, all the reports suggest we are minted

 

[dannyc5]

We're covered on Radio Stoke because the BBC have never set up a separate station for South Cheshire, so Radio Stoke's mandate is to cover North Staffordshire and South Cheshire.

As mentioned earlier, I don't think that thing about Liverpool and Manchester United fans is true. I've been going for over 30 years and I don't know anyone like that.

As for the stuff about the academy - sort of. The academy is the reason we spent a decade in the Championship when other clubs of our size could only dream of reaching that level, never mind staying there. The academy is the thing that caused us to progress as a club. It definitely stalled for a while after we dropped out of the Championship (although we had a couple of very strong groups, who led us to some success), but we're now in a position where the academy produces more players than ever before, we just don't really sell to the Premier League anymore (I think there's a couple of reasons for that), the ambition seems to be to sell to the Championship and hope they go again and get us a good sell on fee.

Also, who do you think went for an inflated fee because they came from Crewe? I can't really think of anyone.

Agreed, I don't think the inflated fee thing is correct, apart from maybe Luke Varney.

I think we're now starting to find a nice balance with the academy. It's taken a while to adust to the new model that was brought in solely to benefit Premier League teams, but we now seem to be producing more players that go on to play for our 1st team than ever before. The problem is, the quality isn't what it used to be, because your Ashton's and Murphy's and Powell's get hoovered up by the big North West clubs at a very young age. If we were still able to produce the likes of Dean Ashton and Danny Murphy, we wouldn't be in League 2. But those days are gone.

Having said that, we are looking for outside investment, so I think our current model isn't sustainable long term without that investment. The club seem pretty confident they will find investment, but we'll have to see.

 

[leedsvaliant]

We're covered on Radio Stoke because the BBC have never set up a separate station for South Cheshire, so Radio Stoke's mandate is to cover North Staffordshire and South Cheshire.

As mentioned earlier, I don't think that thing about Liverpool and Manchester United fans is true. I've been going for over 30 years and I don't know anyone like that.

As for the stuff about the academy - sort of. The academy is the reason we spent a decade in the Championship when other clubs of our size could only dream of reaching that level, never mind staying there. The academy is the thing that caused us to progress as a club. It definitely stalled for a while after we dropped out of the Championship (although we had a couple of very strong groups, who led us to some success), but we're now in a position where the academy produces more players than ever before, we just don't really sell to the Premier League anymore (I think there's a couple of reasons for that), the ambition seems to be to sell to the Championship and hope they go again and get us a good sell on fee.

Also, who do you think went for an inflated fee because they came from Crewe? I can't really think of anyone.

It did feel as though you existed solely for what money you could make out of academy players. There was a couple of lads maybe 10-15 years ago who I think you sold for a million plus....their names escape me but I remember seeing them play and thinking they were quite good but never million pound plus. You definitely traded on the Crewe academy reputation....there's nothing wrong with that.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the 2nd team thing. I saw Liverpool paraphernalia with my own eyes, and not just on one person. It happens in lower league...I'd imagine Salford have got very few genuine fans. Mk dons fans must have supported someone else before they existed. A number of the non league teams that have come up will have been a 2nd team.

 

[Spireitelass97]

Town delivered a strong performance with a 2-1 home victory against Chesterfield, securing three vital points. This result was a fair reflection of the match. While Chesterfield had more possession, the Tea Shop boys put in the effort and defended effectively, limiting their chances.

Berry’s goal in the 77th minute was outstanding, especially since it was his first touch after coming on as a substitute. It will be interesting to see if he can manage at this level long term. What a shame Dobra's acted like a big baby, he rolled around on the ground and left his team down to 10 men at times while he play acted. That type of behaviour would be unacceptable in my grandaughter's girls team. He didn't add much to the attack, at least twice keeping the ball instead of passing to Mandy who was in a better scoring position.

For us, Duke Mckenna, Asare, and Cornelius all played crucial roles, but Duke Mckenna is my clear choice for MOM. Folkingham also deserves recognition. He has been with Town since National League North days and was playing in his 300th match. Despite being 34, he shows relentless determination, constantly harassing the opposition and controlling the game. Last year, he struggled for minutes, but this season, amid injuries and the sale of key players, he has proven to be a great asset to the club. It's a pity there aren't more players like him in League 2, happy and grateful to be playing professional football and prepared to run through a brick wall for their club.

As demonstrated in our matches against Bradford, Doncaster, and Wrexham, if you’re not the most talented team, you must be the hardest working, and that’s exactly what we’ve did this week.

You definitely played like you wanted it more. Dobra seemed to have reverted back to how he was when he first came to us, chucking himself about and being a right mardarse. Disappointing as he’d calmed it down a lot.

 

[Spireitelass97]

Town delivered a strong performance with a 2-1 home victory against Chesterfield, securing three vital points. This result was a fair reflection of the match. While Chesterfield had more possession, the Tea Shop boys put in the effort and defended effectively, limiting their chances.

Berry’s goal in the 77th minute was outstanding, especially since it was his first touch after coming on as a substitute. It will be interesting to see if he can manage at this level long term. What a shame Dobra's acted like a big baby, he rolled around on the ground and left his team down to 10 men at times while he play acted. That type of behaviour would be unacceptable in my grandaughter's girls team. He didn't add much to the attack, at least twice keeping the ball instead of passing to Mandy who was in a better scoring position.

For us, Duke Mckenna, Asare, and Cornelius all played crucial roles, but Duke Mckenna is my clear choice for MOM. Folkingham also deserves recognition. He has been with Town since National League North days and was playing in his 300th match. Despite being 34, he shows relentless determination, constantly harassing the opposition and controlling the game. Last year, he struggled for minutes, but this season, amid injuries and the sale of key players, he has proven to be a great asset to the club. It's a pity there aren't more players like him in League 2, happy and grateful to be playing professional football and prepared to run through a brick wall for their club.

As demonstrated in our matches against Bradford, Doncaster, and Wrexham, if you’re not the most talented team, you must be the hardest working, and that’s exactly what we’ve did this week.

We were impressed with Asare, other than the blatant pushes but he wasn’t alone in that.

 

[Spireitelass97]

Town delivered a strong performance with a 2-1 home victory against Chesterfield, securing three vital points. This result was a fair reflection of the match. While Chesterfield had more possession, the Tea Shop boys put in the effort and defended effectively, limiting their chances.

Berry’s goal in the 77th minute was outstanding, especially since it was his first touch after coming on as a substitute. It will be interesting to see if he can manage at this level long term. What a shame Dobra's acted like a big baby, he rolled around on the ground and left his team down to 10 men at times while he play acted. That type of behaviour would be unacceptable in my grandaughter's girls team. He didn't add much to the attack, at least twice keeping the ball instead of passing to Mandy who was in a better scoring position.

For us, Duke Mckenna, Asare, and Cornelius all played crucial roles, but Duke Mckenna is my clear choice for MOM. Folkingham also deserves recognition. He has been with Town since National League North days and was playing in his 300th match. Despite being 34, he shows relentless determination, constantly harassing the opposition and controlling the game. Last year, he struggled for minutes, but this season, amid injuries and the sale of key players, he has proven to be a great asset to the club. It's a pity there aren't more players like him in League 2, happy and grateful to be playing professional football and prepared to run through a brick wall for their club.

As demonstrated in our matches against Bradford, Doncaster, and Wrexham, if you’re not the most talented team, you must be the hardest working, and that’s exactly what we’ve did

As for the big derby debate...for me you can have neighbouring towns/cities as a derby but they have to be very close.

So on balance I'd say vale v Crewe is a derby.

Walsall is a rivalry as is Shrewsbury and Swindon will be for a couple of years I imagine.

We don't really class Burton as a rivalry or a derby bizarrely despite us being in the same county.

think there has to be some history of rivalry too. We’re pretty close to Derby but never had a rivalry with them, partly cos we were too busy hating Mansfield and partly cos they’ve always been higher up than us so we hardly ever play them.

 

[GTFCfish]

think there has to be some history of rivalry too. We’re pretty close to Derby but never had a rivalry with them, partly cos we were too busy hating Mansfield and partly cos they’ve always been higher up than us so we hardly ever play them.

Seems silimilar to us and Hull this, some of our older fans hate them and have them down as a big rival of ours but to me they are nothing, I started watching GTFC in 1990 and I can't remember ever playing them in the league, we were always above them until the early 2000's and then that all switched with our back to back relegations which coincided with Hulls back to back promotions so as we never play each other I don't see any rivalry there despite the short distance between us.
The only time I can remember playing them was in the Auto Windscreens shield in 98 and I was disappointed that we only beat them 1-0 which shows just how different our paths have been since then.

 

[JJ1990]

Teams in the same City ot Town

Cool. So by that definition, Liverpool v Man Utd, Sunderland v Newcastle, Rangers v Celtic, Cardiff v Swansea and many, many more, don't count as derbies? Nah, that's ridiculous.

 

[lordofthepies]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the 2nd team thing. I saw Liverpool paraphernalia with my own eyes, and not just on one person. It happens in lower league...I'd imagine Salford have got very few genuine fans. Mk dons fans must have supported someone else before they existed. A number of the non league teams that have come up will have been a 2nd team.

I'm not saying it never happens, but I don't think it would happen any more than any other lower league team. I know of a few people who have Crewe as their main team and have a PL team as their second team but I have never encountered anyone where it's the other way round...

 

[DippyDon]

Of course we have people that have premier league clubs etc as their main or second team as a product of the move being so recent compared to some clubs founding a and Milton Keynes as an overspill city, but that is easily the case with other clubs as well.

I know Fulham fans that go to AFC every other week, AFC fans that go to Sutton every other week etc.

I’ve been up and down the country and pretty much everywhere you go you talk to people that follow one of the big 6 or Leeds/Newcastle but go to their local and caught the buzz etc. I’ve been to places such as Vale (that one sticks out) where an adult has worn a Utd shirt to the game for example.

 

[Soz]

Cool. So by that definition, Liverpool v Man Utd, Sunderland v Newcastle, Rangers v Celtic, Cardiff v Swansea and many, many more, don't count as derbies? Nah, that's ridiculous.

This was my logic although I would draw the line at neighbouring cities/towns and so some of these would just be rivalries rather than derbies.

Although same city derbies are frigging brutal. Literally no escape from it if it's your turn to be humiliated, which if you compare anything to how we feel about stoke the it feels insignificant.

I do think if us, Crewe and Stoke were bobbing round the same leagues again then we would care a lot less about Crewe, but there's no harm in them being a stoke proxy whilst carol builds up the boslem galacticos

 

[Son of Cod]

Yes, George has been pulled up on this outrageous claim before if my memory serves me well.

Seems silimilar to us and Hull this, some of our older fans hate them and have them down as a big rival of ours but to me they are nothing, I started watching GTFC in 1990 and I can't remember ever playing them in the league, we were always above them until the early 2000's and then that all switched with our back to back relegations which coincided with Hulls back to back promotions so as we never play each other I don't see any rivalry there despite the short distance between us.
The only time I can remember playing them was in the Auto Windscreens shield in 98 and I was disappointed that we only beat them 1-0 which shows just how different our paths have been since then.

They beat us in the JPT or whatever it was called in the COVID season too I think it was. Utterly forgettable affair.

 

[Scum.]

Vale would have had a bigger budget than Pete for sure, now though I'm not so sure, all the reports suggest we are minted

 

[Si Robin]

This was my logic although I would draw the line at neighbouring cities/towns and so some of these would just be rivalries rather than derbies.

Although same city derbies are frigging brutal. Literally no escape from it if it's your turn to be humiliated, which if you compare anything to how we feel about stoke the it feels insignificant.

I do think if us, Crewe and Stoke were bobbing round the same leagues again then we would care a lot less about Crewe, but there's no harm in them being a stoke proxy whilst carol builds up the boslem galacticos

I think the difference between Derby and local rivalry simply comes down to historical factors. I don't buy into it having to be a single city thing - Cheltenham's a town for a start and by that definition our derby would be against Cheltenham Saracens, a team in the Hellenic League.

I've posted on here many, many times before that Cheltenham's derby is Gloucester City. We've not played them for so long though that our younger fans have latched on to numerous over the last 25 years (Rushden and Diamonds - seriously, Hereford, Kidderminster) and finally now have something with FGR.

The problem is, Cheltenham and Gloucester is more than football. It's two conurbations very close to each other, but very different in almost every other way. Cheltenham sees Gloucester as trash and Gloucester sees Cheltenham as a bunch of snobs. It's all bullshit of course, but it needs that undercurrent of more than football. Of course, Cheltenham and Gloucester are so close together they're basically one large city - loads of people from each side work in the other location. Nearly all of my jobs have been in Gloucester for example.

It's not something that can ever be replicated with FGR because the distance between the two places is too great. I don't know a single FGR fan, but I've worked with a few Gloucester fans.

 

[valefan16]

Cool. So by that definition, Liverpool v Man Utd, Sunderland v Newcastle, Rangers v Celtic, Cardiff v Swansea and many, many more, don't count as derbies? Nah, that's ridiculous.

Rangers and Celtic are both Glasgow?

Same City Derbies are generally another level due to split families/workplaces the stakes are far higher, you could arguably stretch it to conurbations as well, plus a lot counts on how many clubs are local, for example Crewe don't have a true two way rivalry in that anyone close has other bigger rivals, Vale - Stoke for example. Similar with Coventry looking to Leicester... all be it Leicester in the same boat with Forest/Derby.

Newcastle v Sunderland would count in that case as its truly a two way rivalry with neither club having a bigger rival.

If you compared the atmosphere and intensity of Port Vale v Stoke City and the sheer hatred against a Port Vale v Crewe Alexandra fixture its on another planet. (Just look at the Pizza Cup game in 2018 against their U21's!)

I don't hate Crewe, despite not being local to Vale or Crewe I actually have a Crewe fan in the Wife's side of the family, we have largely suffered the same in the last few decades with both sides having a glorious era around the 90's/early 00's before bobbing about L1 and L2, they had a phase of often beating us, we've had a phase of always beating them the past 7 or 8 times or so and sure the pendulum will swing again...

As I said it is nice to see that we are both challenging currently and having this "local" game as a top of the league clash for the first time that I can remember.

 

[Soz]

Anyone else have to Google conurbation?

I agree with you Si though, it doesn't have to be same town or city but there does have to be very close geographically to be a derby. A rivalry would be for any fixture with BEEF that does not have the geographical proximity eg utd v Liverpool for me.

Basically, derbies can be rivalries, rivalries can't be derbies, and some derbies are utter shite like the Merseyside game with people holding half and Half's or Everton fans in the kop. Derbies can never die whilst the two clubs still exist but rivalries can subside and explode from nowhere.

I think it was our last league game with stoke (1-1 iwelumo scored for them if I remember correctly), where a stoke fan got a ticket in the bycars, when they scored he tried to get to the away end behind the other goal and was chased onto the pitch by several vale fans, got a kick up the arse before the police dragged everyone off.

 

[Soz]

Just asked my mate (vale fan) in work if Crewe is a derby and he summarised it perfectly for me...he said yes but then if vale/stoke/Crewe are in the same league next year he would take a 0-5 defeat to Crewe if it meant we beat stoke 1-0.

 

[valefan16]

Anyone else have to Google conurbation?

I agree with you Si though, it doesn't have to be same town or city but there does have to be very close geographically to be a derby. A rivalry would be for any fixture with BEEF that does not have the geographical proximity eg utd v Liverpool for me.

Basically, derbies can be rivalries, rivalries can't be derbies, and some derbies are utter shite like the Merseyside game with people holding half and Half's or Everton fans in the kop. Derbies can never die whilst the two clubs still exist but rivalries can subside and explode from nowhere.

I think it was our last league game with stoke (1-1 iwelumo scored for them if I remember correctly), where a stoke fan got a ticket in the bycars, when they scored he tried to get to the away end behind the other goal and was chased onto the pitch by several vale fans, got a kick up the arse before the police dragged everyone off.

Soz!

Thats the second last derby game with Stoke... there was one more after that...

 

[Agombar stool]

Cool. So by that definition, Liverpool v Man Utd, Sunderland v Newcastle, Rangers v Celtic, Cardiff v Swansea and many, many more, don't count as derbies? Nah, that's ridiculous.

Interesting example

 

[GTFCfish]

View attachment 21056

Christ you use that gif nearly as much as i’ve used the Holloway one.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Stoke and Vale have only shared the same division 7 out of the last 60 seasons I believe and, much as I and other neutrals want to see it, it's unlikely to happen unless Vale make the Championship, which is a difficult feat to accomplish for us lower league mortals these days. But absence will always make a Derby grow more intense.

Local game. I've spent a lot of time working with Stokies in various jobs and I work in Stoke occasionally so I do love the banter with both sets of fans. I'll never hate Vale like I hate Stoke but thats down to the era. I respect Vale fans for not taking the easy way out and backing a proper community club. I also found their relegation last season hilarious.

Stoke on Trent isn't immune to Liverpool and Man United fans itself. Hell I've even seen people walk around in Man United shirts in Leeds! I would say only Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow and Newcastle in Britain are cities where the local club(s) are almost unanimously supported. If Birmingham, Bristol and London are full of Liverpool and United fans, then Stoke easily is too. So that was a strange dig I thought.

Derbies/Rivalries should be dynamic anyway and multiple ones should be encouraged. A Vale/Stoke fan in their 20s will have never seen Vale play Stoke in a meaningful game (that Checkatrade game vs their reserves doesn't count) so it's obvious other local games are as good as it gets for them at this moment. I'd much rather play Stoke than Vale but it ain't happening anytime soon so best make the most of this game whilst both teams are doing well!