Saturday 17th September 2022

[kieran_vale]

If Dino is still in charge - I wouldn’t give him the cash. Don’t trust him to use it wisely.
Maybe we will use the money to plug the gap in the attendances after people like me stopped going.
Either way we are going down. 6 years it’s been, but we are league 2 bound.

That’s going to be a problem with those who’ve stopped going. It’s very easy for people to get out of the habit of going at all and then makes it very tough to tempt them back even when a change occurs. We’ve seen it at Vale where it’s only the last year or two people have started to buy back in again. I think JFH going when he did was quick enough to turn things around but the replacement just screamed cheap option.

 

[masi51]

I'm not saying we've been any good yet...we haven't really played that well apart from the odd 20 minutes here and there. There are a number of reasons as to why that is, not least lack of preparation and having our 4 best players unfit but even then we've still managed to scrape 2 wins and 3 draws (a couple of the draws should have been wins in all honesty) . We've started some games with a team that would struggle in league 2, yet we could be sitting in the top 10. But I think you're mistaking my point.

What I objected to at the start of the season was this notion that there are 8-10 clubs who we might as well just default a win to and that there is a huge gulf. There isn't. Every team is a 3rd division team with a few of these teams having 2 or 3 quality players.

Do I feel we have shown what we are capable of yet? No. Do I feel that there's a huge gulf between the top and the bottom of the division? No. Wednesday and Ipswich have clearly got some quality but as we have seen, they're not invincible.

It was the arrogance to believe that there was 8-10 teams who are too good for this league that has irked me. I'll stand by what I said. This is a poor league with maybe a couple of teams slightly ahead of the rest but who would be relegation fodder in the league above.

I said at the beginning of the season there would be 8/10 teams who would be going for promotion
Revise that to 8 now. Nobody said they was too good for this league I think all will struggle if promoted but a few can build if promoted Shef Wed, Ipswich Us and Derby and perhaps Portsmouth.
It is a country mile better than league two and the Championship is a country mile better than league 1
I also said none of the promoted teams will be anywhere near the play-offs i still stand by that.
I know two things Politic would not get a place on our bench and you will see by the end of the season how good a defender Santos is.

 

[leedsvaliant]

I said at the beginning of the season there would be 8/10 teams who would be going for promotion
Revise that to 8 now. Nobody said they was too good for this league I think all will struggle if promoted but a few can build if promoted Shef Wed, Ipswich Us and Derby and perhaps Portsmouth.
It is a country mile better than league two and the Championship is a country mile better than league 1
I also said none of the promoted teams will be anywhere near the play-offs i still stand by that.
I know two things Politic would not get a place on our bench and you will see by the end of the season how good a defender Santos is.

Agree that none of the promoted teams will get near the playoffs but again you miss my point.

League 1 is not a country mile better than league 2. It's slightly better in certain areas but in general the standard is still poor. The championship is definitely a country mile ahead of both.

In fairness, Politic is a bit of an impact sub for us. It's too early to judge whether he can make an impact when starting. I think he would make your bench....he was one of your better players when you were last at this level.

I think we'll have to disagree on Santos. I said he was a liability and his performances this season have backed me up.

 

[valefan16]

It’s early days, we will get a better feel for the league over the coming weeks when we face Posh, Wednesday and Derby although Derby have seemed a bit meh so far and Posh seem wildly inconsistent.

With the rise of traditional smaller clubs like Bournemouth, Brentford, Hull, Swansea etc who rattled around the bottom two leagues but have seen investment push them into top two tier clubs you’ve got the situation in league one where the failing giants who’ve hit financial problems or just been badly performing have fell to mix in with the smaller clubs.

Hence you have the situation where Sheffield Wednesday with 26,000 home crowds and players probably on 10-20k a week are facing the likes of Morecambe with 1500-2000 fans and some players on probably less than a grand pw. It’s kind of the middle ground in the EFL really where cultures collide from different ends of the spectrum in club size.

That said so far I’ve not seen anyone stand out, we’ve been in all but one game and probably unlucky with the points total but that’s the step up. Sides are more efficient in punishing you.

Teams that spend big money will do well the rest will struggle in the main that’s how it is.

 

[valefan16]

Agree that none of the promoted teams will get near the playoffs but again you miss my point.

League 1 is not a country mile better than league 2. It's slightly better in certain areas but in general the standard is still poor. The championship is definitely a country mile ahead of both.

In fairness, Politic is a bit of an impact sub for us. It's too early to judge whether he can make an impact when starting. I think he would make your bench....he was one of your better players when you were last at this level.

I think we'll have to disagree on Santos. I said he was a liability and his performances this season have backed me up.

Evatt just clearly didn’t like him, odd one as before his injury he seemed their big future star coming through.

Either way I’m just glad he’s not on their bench and with us instead and it’s one where we seem a good fit. Hopefully the 100k we’ve spent on the loan has some option to buy.

Can only judge Santos on what I’ve seen. He made Devante Rodney look like Kylian Mbape which takes some doing!

 

[masi51]

Agree that none of the promoted teams will get near the playoffs but again you miss my point.

League 1 is not a country mile better than league 2. It's slightly better in certain areas but in general the standard is still poor. The championship is definitely a country mile ahead of both.

In fairness, Politic is a bit of an impact sub for us. It's too early to judge whether he can make an impact when starting. I think he would make your bench....he was one of your better players when you were last at this level.

I think we'll have to disagree on Santos. I said he was a liability and his performances this season have backed me up.

Do not want to be critical of Politic as stated he alongside Darcy was the two best players when we was last at this level with journeymen and kids. Not one player is still at the club from that season, we was in Administration
This week we beat MK Dons 2-0 away The players in Politics position who did not start Sheehan, ,Dempsey, Morley, Dapo and Sadlier. He just would not get a game.
As for Santos being in the PFA team of the season the last two seasons backs me up.
As for you saying the league is slightly better why are champions of lge2 last season only in 20th position?
I said Exeter would do ok and you would be just outside the relegation places come the end of the season
I did not know a lot about Bristol Rovers except Barton to form a opinion and thought FGR would struggle as they lost a couple of there better players.
The only team i said would struggle who are batting above themselves are Cambridge who have held on to some of there better players but also have a cracking manager.

 

[BarrieOwl]

I'm not saying we've been any good yet...we haven't really played that well apart from the odd 20 minutes here and there. There are a number of reasons as to why that is, not least lack of preparation and having our 4 best players unfit but even then we've still managed to scrape 2 wins and 3 draws (a couple of the draws should have been wins in all honesty) . We've started some games with a team that would struggle in league 2, yet we could be sitting in the top 10. But I think you're mistaking my point.

What I objected to at the start of the season was this notion that there are 8-10 clubs who we might as well just default a win to and that there is a huge gulf. There isn't. Every team is a 3rd division team with a few of these teams having 2 or 3 quality players.

Do I feel we have shown what we are capable of yet? No. Do I feel that there's a huge gulf between the top and the bottom of the division? No. Wednesday and Ipswich have clearly got some quality but as we have seen, they're not invincible.

It was the arrogance to believe that there was 8-10 teams who are too good for this league that has irked me. I'll stand by what I said. This is a poor league with maybe a couple of teams slightly ahead of the rest but who would be relegation fodder in the league above.

Standing alone on that Hill.

Ipswich and Pompey would compete at the level above as it stands.

 

[leedsvaliant]

Do not want to be critical of Politic as stated he alongside Darcy was the two best players when we was last at this level with journeymen and kids. Not one player is still at the club from that season, we was in Administration
This week we beat MK Dons 2-0 away The players in Politics position who did not start Sheehan, ,Dempsey, Morley, Dapo and Sadlier. He just would not get a game.
As for Santos being in the PFA team of the season the last two seasons backs me up.
As for you saying the league is slightly better why are champions of lge2 last season only in 20th position?
I said Exeter would do ok and you would be just outside the relegation places come the end of the season
I did not know a lot about Bristol Rovers except Barton to form a opinion and thought FGR would struggle as they lost a couple of there better players.
The only team i said would struggle who are batting above themselves are Cambridge who have held on to some of there better players but also have a cracking manager.

Forest Green got rid of 2 or 3 of their better players in the summer and haven't really recruited very well. One of their top scorers is out long term and they barely scraped over the line in the end having had a poor second half to the season. Exeter have got a good manager and some good young players...I can see them finishing top 10. Bristol Rovers relied on 2 very good loanees last year, Barton is an idiot and they have a poor disciplinary record...no surprise if they were to struggle. As for us, we've started relatively poorly in my opinion due to a number of factors...several of our better players coming back from long term injuries, starting 4 weeks after most of the division, ever-changing team....but yet we've still accumulated a few points. With a settled team we probably should be on 13-15 points but I can see us finishing in the 10th-14th area after a slow start, which would be a pretty solid foundation.

Anyway, my point isn't about how the promoted teams are doing, it's about the general standard of the division, which was proclaimed as 'too difficult' for some of the smaller teams. It really isn't a great standard...Pompey who are near the top had 1 shot on our goal virtually and you guys even before your sending off were pretty even to us (in spite of your deluded manager's claims). Mk dons were awful but unfortunately we were worse on that night, Fleetwood who have only lost against us were dire, Barnsley knocked it about well but were dire up front and at the back. We've got Peterborough, Derby and Wednesday coming up. I anticipate Wednesday will be very good but they're paying players 10-15k a week which is a joke at this level. It would be embarrassing if they didn't finish top at a canter. The other 2 have been wildly inconsistent, so we'll see. The delusions of grandeur are ridiculous.

 

[leedsvaliant]

Standing alone on that Hill.

Ipswich and Pompey would compete at the level above as it stands.

We played Pompey the other week. They were workmanlike and solid but they'd be annihilated in the championship. Ipswich, I can't comment on as I haven't seen them play.

 

[masi51]

The league is panning out pretty much as i and others predicted
Dont see Exeter now coming in the top 10 they have a decent 11 but are already suffering injuries you claim to have your best players out. Bristol only got up because of decent loans and FGR have lost there best players pre -season..........And there lies the problem
The teams at the top all have two decent players for each position

 

[leedsvaliant]

The league is panning out pretty much as i and others predicted
Dont see Exeter now coming in the top 10 they have a decent 11 but are already suffering injuries you claim to have your best players out. Bristol only got up because of decent loans and FGR have lost there best players pre -season..........And there lies the problem
The teams at the top all have two decent players for each position

Even with a team out that would struggle in league 2, we've managed to scrape together 9 points and should have more. I'd say that's an indictment of the quality of the league.

Of course those with a bigger budget will have more depth but again you miss my point. At the start of the season, it was intimated that the top 8 clubs in terms of size will be far superior than the rest and there is a huge chasm, which is simply not true.

It's division 3....it's a poor standard of football sprinkled with a few players who could play higher.

 

[BarrieOwl]

We played Pompey the other week. They were workmanlike and solid but they'd be annihilated in the championship. Ipswich, I can't comment on as I haven't seen them play.

Would they be annihilated in the Championship, or is that your baseless opinion? The Championship is a better league than this but the fact Reading are in the top 6 with a -5 GD and Sunderland who just pipped us last season are also up there suggests they wouldn't be annihilated.

 

[K-Win]

We played Pompey the other week. They were workmanlike and solid but they'd be annihilated in the championship. Ipswich, I can't comment on as I haven't seen them play.

Maybe, if our current team was suddenly parachuted into the Championship.

The Cowleys have built a team to get results in League One, on a League One budget. If we get promoted, they'd try to build a team to get results in the Championship on a low-end Championship budget. They have Championship experience so I'd back them to do it.

You keep throwing around your straw man argument that everyone on this forum was saying League One teams play a dazzling brand of football that would be impossible to compete with. What was actually said was that there is a meaningful player salary gap between the haves and the have nots. And this gap is wider than it was four or five years ago. This is likely to be a big factor as the season progresses and injuries and loss of form kicks in, as was the case last season. Some teams are very well run and will buck the trend (e.g. Plymouth), but as a rule having more money generally means a higher League position.

 

[thewwfc]

Right - and also last season, there was a far clearer gap (in points terms) between the teams contending for promotion, and the teams who struggled, or went down.

Usually, it really is a free-for-all, anyone can beat anyone, and if you put together a run then you could have been shite for the entire first half of the season and still been in contention for promotion - not last season though.

I don’t think anyone who’s been in this division a while thinks that many of the better teams are going to produce champagne football, just that some teams have better players and more consistency.

 

[BarrieOwl]

Programme cover for our game

 

[leedsvaliant]

Maybe, if our current team was suddenly parachuted into the Championship.

The Cowleys have built a team to get results in League One, on a League One budget. If we get promoted, they'd try to build a team to get results in the Championship on a low-end Championship budget. They have Championship experience so I'd back them to do it.

You keep throwing around your straw man argument that everyone on this forum was saying League One teams play a dazzling brand of football that would be impossible to compete with. What was actually said was that there is a meaningful player salary gap between the haves and the have nots. And this gap is wider than it was four or five years ago. This is likely to be a big factor as the season progresses and injuries and loss of form kicks in, as was the case last season. Some teams are very well run and will buck the trend (e.g. Plymouth), but as a rule having more money generally means a higher League position.

There's undoubtedly a discrepancy between budgets in this league. But that doesn't always equal quality. What was intimated at the start of the season is that the top 8 biggest clubs in terms of historical size would wrap up the top 8 places and then there would be a gap to the rest. My observation so far is that there is not a huge gulf in quality between top and bottom...I believe any team can do well with a decent manager and a fair wind. Last season was an anomaly in my view and teams like wycombe proves that it's still not the monopoly that some of the bigger boys seem to think it is. The teams that get promoted will have a squad of average players supplemented by 4 or 5 top class players.

 

[kieran_vale]

Looks like Shrews have sold over 700 tickets for Saturday. Might get up to or over 1000 from them with pay on the day?

I want to see us show a bit more intent in this game. From what I can tell they are doing well albeit maybe short of options up top. No excuse for us not to throw a bit more caution to the wind especially at home. Whilst I’m not going to get into the debate above re the relative strength of this league as it frankly bores me one thing that is sure is if you try and Derekball your way to just containing the opposition there will be one with your name on it and at this level it will likely be finished off. Better to throw a few punches ourselves.

 

[stevowanderer]

There's undoubtedly a discrepancy between budgets in this league. But that doesn't always equal quality. What was intimated at the start of the season is that the top 8 biggest clubs in terms of historical size would wrap up the top 8 places and then there would be a gap to the rest. My observation so far is that there is not a huge gulf in quality between top and bottom...I believe any team can do well with a decent manager and a fair wind. Last season was an anomaly in my view and teams like wycombe proves that it's still not the monopoly that some of the bigger boys seem to think it is. The teams that get promoted will have a squad of average players supplemented by 4 or 5 top class players.

We are 8 games in. And you have only won 1 of your last 7 games in the league which came against bottom of the league Burton…. Long way to go yet but that’s hardly proving your argument that there isn’t a gulf in quality? I personally think you will be ok this season but I think you are underestimating the gap between teams like yourselves and those that have the bigger budgets. You are right though some can buck the trend but on average the bigger spenders/better players finish higher up the league which means there usually is a gap in quality between the top and the bottom.

What do you think it will take for you to be consistently competing for the top 6/autos? I think you’d need to improve your squad and spend more money/have a bigger budget to compete anywhere near the level of Ipswich, Wednesday etc. That in itself indicates a gulf in quality.

 

[Luke Imp]

We need to start backing up decent results and performances back to back but we've had a mixed bag away from home so far with no shows at Posh/Cambridge but decent at Pompey/Oxford.

Still 5 or 6 out injured, Bishop went off in the first half midweek.

 

[SVH]

Exeter, Shrewsbury and Pompey is a banker.

 

[valefan16]

Looks like Shrews have sold over 700 tickets for Saturday. Might get up to or over 1000 from them with pay on the day?

I want to see us show a bit more intent in this game. From what I can tell they are doing well albeit maybe short of options up top. No excuse for us not to throw a bit more caution to the wind especially at home. Whilst I’m not going to get into the debate above re the relative strength of this league as it frankly bores me one thing that is sure is if you try and Derekball your way to just containing the opposition there will be one with your name on it and at this level it will likely be finished off. Better to throw a few punches ourselves.

Yeah I would hope we are more positive as we looked far better when we were and quite frankly it’s been boring at times this season to watch.

We seem to over respect the opposition a bit rather than try and focus on ourselves.

Now we are getting our better players, certainly from an attacking hopefully we can be more positive. Tomorrow is huge with the games to follow.

 

[PlymouthCasual]

Exeter, Shrewsbury and Pompey is a banker.

Banker? We have turned over Bolton, Barnsley, Peterborough, Derby and Oxford so far which I think may have gone under the radar a bit.

Pompey are definitely favourites for tomorrow but I would argue that a home win is certainly not a forgone conclusion.

Considering the recent history of results between the two clubs. 2-2 should be the value bet

 

[Floreat Salopia]

The first of two back to back double headers away at Port Vale for us tomorrow.

Vale have been a bit of a bogey team for us down the years but after coming back from two goals down against Exeter to win 3-2 on Tuesday should mean confidence is high amongst the players. It’s another game we have to be looking at taking maximum points from to keep up with the play off pack.

We’re 4th in the away league table and remain unbeaten after some decent results away from Shropshire early on this season. I think Cotterill will have the players bang up for this one as he loves a local game.

Team for tomorrow I reckon will be as follows:-

GK) Marosi

CB) Pennington
CB) Dunkley
CB) Flanagan

RWB) Winchester
LWB) Nurse

CM) Bayliss
CM) Shipley
CM) Leahy

ST) Pyke/Bowman
ST) Saydee

Reckon we’ll make a few changes with Taylor Moore, Street and possible Pyke being rotated for tomorrow.

Prediction:- I’ll go for a tight 1-0 win to Salop with the goal coming late on from Luke Leahy.

 

[kieran_vale]

The first of two back to back double headers away at Port Vale for us tomorrow.

Vale have been a bit of a bogey team for us down the years but after coming back from two goals down against Exeter to win 3-2 on Tuesday should mean confidence is high amongst the players. It’s another game we have to be looking at taking maximum points from to keep up with the play off pack.

We’re 4th in the away league table and remain unbeaten after some decent results away from Shropshire early on this season. I think Cotterill will have the players bang up for this one as he loves a local game.

Team for tomorrow I reckon will be as follows:-

GK) Marosi

CB) Pennington
CB) Dunkley
CB) Flanagan

RWB) Winchester
LWB) Nurse

CM) Bayliss
CM) Shipley
CM) Leahy

ST) Pyke/Bowman
ST) Saydee

Reckon we’ll make a few changes with Taylor Moore, Street and possible Pyke being rotated for tomorrow.

Prediction:- I’ll go for a tight 1-0 win to Salop with the goal coming late on from Luke Leahy.

Has Pyke developed as a player then as we had him on loan from Huddersfield early in his career and quite frankly he was just stone useless. Whether that was because it was Michael Brown and Neil Aspin as his managers then I’m not sure.

For us I’d go a bit more aggressive. Politic isn’t ready to start yet but off the bench second half should do a job

GK: Stevens

RCB: Cass
CB: Smith
LCB: Hall

RWB: Massey
LWB: Benning or McCarron

CM: Ojo
CM: Pett
CAM: Butterworth

ST: Wilson
ST: Harrison

 

[Floreat Salopia]

Has Pyke developed as a player then as we had him on loan from Huddersfield early in his career and quite frankly he was just stone useless. Whether that was because it was Michael Brown and Neil Aspin as his managers then I’m not sure.

For us I’d go a bit more aggressive. Politic isn’t ready to start yet but off the bench second half should do a job

GK: Stevens

RCB: Cass
CB: Smith
LCB: Hall

RWB: Massey
LWB: Benning or McCarron

CM: Ojo
CM: Pett
CAM: Butterworth

ST: Wilson
ST: Harrison

Just two months ago I was questioning why we haven’t released Pyke and how’s he not ended up in non league with somebody like Boston United or Kidderminster Harriers. Pyke was firmly placed up there with our worst ever signings not just in recent years, but overall… he was even compared to Sam Cosgrove (now that is bad).

However, I’ll give the lad some respect and hold my hands up because so far in these early games he’s proving the whole Salop fanbase wrong. He’s come back from his loan spell at Scunthorpe last season and just seems not only a changed footballer, but a changed bloke. His attitude has been amongst the best of the players returning to training in the summer according to Steve Cotterill.

If Pyke does start tomorrow, bizarrely he’ll either play at RWB or at ST and he’ll be rotated from either position during the match. Never known nowt like it before! He’s featured in every game so far this season and it’s been 50/50 whether he’s been at the back or up top.

To summarise I’d say yes, he has developed. But we’ve only seen this progression over the past two months but he’s no longer the scape goat amongst Salop fans which is good.

 

[kieran_vale]

Just two months ago I was questioning why we haven’t released Pyke and how’s he not ended up in non league with somebody like Boston United or Kidderminster Harriers. Pyke was firmly placed up there with our worst ever signings not just in recent years, but overall… he was even compared to Sam Cosgrove (now that is bad).

However, I’ll give the lad some respect and hold my hands up because so far in these early games he’s proving the whole Salop fanbase wrong. He’s come back from his loan spell at Scunthorpe last season and just seems not only a changed footballer, but a changed bloke. His attitude has been amongst the best of the players returning to training in the summer according to Steve Cotterill.

If Pyke does start tomorrow, bizarrely he’ll either play at RWB or at ST and he’ll be rotated from either position during the match. Never known nowt like it before! He’s featured in every game so far this season and it’s been 50/50 whether he’s been at the back or up top.

To summarise I’d say yes, he has developed. But we’ve only seen this progression over the past two months but he’s no longer the scape goat amongst Salop fans which is good.

Nothing like being sent on loan to Scunny to focus the mind on what the future could be I guess. Fair play to him on that though. We actually did similar with a striker we had on loan last season Ryan Edmondson switching him out to RWB occasionally. Sometimes if they can see more of the pitch in front of them than playing with their back to goal and just get their head down and run I can see the benefit of it.

Looks like DC has said Conlon and Walker should come into contention for this so would adjust my lineup slightly and go Walker for Pett purely because of his long range passing.

 

[SVH]

Banker? We have turned over Bolton, Barnsley, Peterborough, Derby and Oxford so far which I think may have gone under the radar a bit.

Pompey are definitely favourites for tomorrow but I would argue that a home win is certainly not a forgone conclusion.

Considering the recent history of results between the two clubs. 2-2 should be the value bet

I thought you were a different team away from home and Pompey are unbeaten at home so had to side with them.

Always a banker in my head but the only banker is the bookies making more money this weekend!

 

[Boletus Edulis]

I thought you were a different team away from home

Well that’s what Derby thought.

 

[leedsvaliant]

Pyke was one during the dark days. I seem to remember he didn't have the physical attributes for professional football but he was only young. He didn't really bust a gut either.

We've got to target this game as 3 points really with tough games coming up on paper (although Posh and Derby are up and down). As others have said, we have our better players coming back into full fitness so I'm hoping for less containment and a bit more of a bold and positive approach. Seems like we've sold out the usual stands and Shrewsbury will have 1000, so we should be on for an 8k or so crowd.

It seems that Shrewsbury haven't played all that well this season but have picked up points. 8th is not to be sniffed at. I'm hoping for the start to a settled side now, ahead of a tough run.

 

[nelsonpfc]

Banker? We have turned over Bolton, Barnsley, Peterborough, Derby and Oxford so far which I think may have gone under the radar a bit.

Pompey are definitely favourites for tomorrow but I would argue that a home win is certainly not a forgone conclusion.

Considering the recent history of results between the two clubs. 2-2 should be the value bet

Not a banker, but we're a better side than last time you played us. Difference in the home game last season was we made 2 mistakes at the back and your lad Hardie took them both. Marquis missed some chances, but never gave in and deserved the draw. We've now got players who are making and finishing and midfield is streets ahead of what it was last season. We were a top 10 at best last season. This season we're alot better than that. Whatever the result its gonna be a hell of an atmosphere at FP. Almost 19k with a very good away following