Saturday 21st August

[MadJohn]

There's only really one club clearly a fair bit bigger than everyone else and that's Bradford. Then you have your Swindons, Tranmeres, Bristol Rovers etc. The rest of us might be slightly bigger or slightly smaller than each other (apart from the Tinpot bankrolled clubs) but really Bradford are the only standout name I was looking forward to playing. Even then they're not huge, just lower end Championship size.

Definitely, though it's a little strange to think of a club that Hartlepool have met 74 times in the Football League as a particularly big club. But a lot of those league meetings were decades ago, or more recently in the third tier. This season will be the first time we have met Bradford at this level since Roy McFarland's promotion-winning side of FORTY years ago!

They are unquestionably the standout side for me, though not a team I particularly looked out for when the fixtures were announced. There was nothing like a Pompey, or (showing my age) Wolves, or anything even remotely close to a couple of those scary clubs that briefly occupied League One when we were there (Leicester, Leeds, Sheff Wed, Southampton, Norwich). It was difficult to avoid a feeling of inferiority even as we played them as equals. To look back now and see that Saints side, with Lambert, Lallana, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Fonte, Schneiderlin, you just think "who the hell has cocked up so much that they're playing us!"

 

[F!RTHY]

There's only really one club clearly a fair bit bigger than everyone else and that's Bradford. Then you have your Swindons, Tranmeres, Bristol Rovers etc. The rest of us might be slightly bigger or slightly smaller than each other (apart from the Tinpot bankrolled clubs) but really Bradford are the only standout name I was looking forward to playing. Even then they're not huge, just lower end Championship size.

Fair assessment is that.

 

[Bottega Don]

There's like four tiers of club size in L2.

Bradford

Swindon, Bristol Rovers, Tranmere, Port Vale.

Scunthorpe, Oldham, Rochdale, Colchester, Carlisle, Walsall, Leyton Orient, Exeter, Northampton, Newport, Hartlepool, Mansfield

Barrow, FGR, Harrogate, Salford, Stevenage, Crawley, Sutton

There's obviously bigger clubs in each tier. Like Northampton are bigger than us but we're probably in about the same tier.

 

[Chief Rocka]

Newport down a tier and it's spot on for me.

 

[loz]

Let’s be honest fancy stadiums or histories mean little. We’re all tinpot 4th division clubs, this year this league feels more non league than the national league with some of the teams in it.

Agree WB. We are all 4th tier clubs and and that is where we deserve to be. Some have more potential to go higher but it comes down to how the club is run. Bank rolling cannot go on indefinitely. Where are Rushden and D and look at the predicaments Huddersfield and Scunny currently face.

 

[denzel ecfc]

There's like four tiers of club size in L2.

Bradford

Swindon, Bristol Rovers, Tranmere, Port Vale.

Scunthorpe, Oldham, Rochdale, Colchester, Carlisle, Walsall, Leyton Orient, Exeter, Northampton, Newport, Hartlepool, Mansfield

Barrow, FGR, Harrogate, Salford, Stevenage, Crawley, Sutton

There's obviously bigger clubs in each tier. Like Northampton are bigger than us but we're probably in about the same tier.

I'd put Oldham in the group above, some of us are old enough to remember them in the top flight, Joe Royle, Graham Sharp and all that.

 

[Soup Ladle]

I'd put Oldham in the group above, some of us are old enough to remember them in the top flight, Joe Royle, Graham Sharp and all that.

Not sure you can, nowadays their support has fallen off a cliff and that's not just recent.

 

[Bottega Don]

I'd put Oldham in the group above, some of us are old enough to remember them in the top flight, Joe Royle, Graham Sharp and all that.

Oldham were a toss up, they have a lot of potential to get excellent support if they weren't constantly mismanaged.

 

[Gassy]

But are you? 'big' clubs in this division were teams like Bolton, Portsmouth, Bradford as of late. Not umm, Bristol Rovers. I don't understand how or why Rovers think they're in any way 'big' for this league. League 1 and 2 is completely your natural level

Depends on your definitions I guess. Personally I’d class the Bolton’s, Pompey etc as massive for this division. Last time we were here we doubled the average L2 attendances, if that’s not considered a big club for that level, then really there is no point discussing it further.

Personally I’d look at Rovers & Swindon as big clubs for this division. Bradford are in the massive category for me.

For the record, I consider a clubs size based on their size of support, not what trophies they’ve won. I don’t understand how if you won the carling cup 50 years ago it can make a team ‘big’, despite only getting 5/6k attendances. It makes them previously successful, but not big.

 

[Gassy]

There's like four tiers of club size in L2.

Bradford

Swindon, Bristol Rovers, Tranmere, Port Vale.

Scunthorpe, Oldham, Rochdale, Colchester, Carlisle, Walsall, Leyton Orient, Exeter, Northampton, Newport, Hartlepool, Mansfield

Barrow, FGR, Harrogate, Salford, Stevenage, Crawley, Sutton

There's obviously bigger clubs in each tier. Like Northampton are bigger than us but we're probably in about the same tier.

Agree with most of that.

Id probably put Port Vale down a category though? Also Newport too.

 

[Bottega Don]

Agree with most of that.

Id probably put Port Vale down a category though? Also Newport too.

Port Vale were definitely on the edge, I think their potential for support when they're good pushed them into that category.

Newport was a toss up, they feel like a real established FL club now.

 

[Soup Ladle]

Depends on your definitions I guess. Personally I’d class the Bolton’s, Pompey etc as massive for this division. Last time we were here we doubled the average L2 attendances, if that’s not considered a big club for that level, then really there is no point discussing it further.

Personally I’d look at Rovers & Swindon as big clubs for this division. Bradford are in the massive category for me.

For the record, I consider a clubs size based on their size of support, not what trophies they’ve won. I don’t understand how if you won the carling cup 50 years ago it can make a team ‘big’, despite only getting 5/6k attendances. It makes them previously successful, but not big.

Pretty much. I think at the highest levels, it's more trophies won whereas down here it's more support based.

Bratfud are still not in the massive category. Their crowds would be a fair bit lower if they were paying 365 quid like at Pools. Portsmouth are bigger, maybe Bolton as well. That said they are clearly a big club for L2 and quite big for L1 as well. Rovers for me are a L1 size club but you don't look out of place here must be said. Certainly not a scalp of any kind. Same for Swindon, Tranmere.

 

[valefan16]

Agree with most of that.

Id probably put Port Vale down a category though? Also Newport too.

I would class us as bigger than all in the category below in terms of fan base and stadia.

Probably slightly smaller than the other three but with a similar trajectory on the field and trophy success, although our all time average attendance is actually higher than Tranmere (we were getting 25k fairly regularly in the 50s) so could argue historically we are bigger than them I guess.

 

[kieran_vale]

Agree with most of that.

Id probably put Port Vale down a category though? Also Newport too.

These things are always on what metric you choose to use for it so can understand anyone saying either of them. Personally though I don’t see there’s that much difference between us and you, both hovered round mid L1 for the most part and both the poorer relation in a two club city and will always have that challenge. You’ll find this if Bristol City ever make the premier league it’s almost impossible to compete, we lost out on a generation of fans in S-O-T due to that (and our inept owners at the time).

 

[Gassy]

Yep fair points. I don’t know enough about the history of Vale to comment, I only go on really what I’ve seen in attendances/recent divisions where Vale have been lower than ours, although have a huge stadium.

Tempted to put you in massive category just because you have DC though

How’s he getting on?

 

[Indian Dan]

A lot of it is down to potential. Who has the stadia and latent support to sustain the club, say, in the Championship. Not just the 1 or 2 season clubs that then fall down to their historical level and back to seasons of struggle. Rotherham are a small club, for example, that haven’t got the wherewithal to sustain Championship football and the chances of them rebounding there yet again look slim.

Luton are making a fist of it as are Barnsley. The big traditional clubs that have got themselves into financial turmoil almost always bounce back eventually.

I’d say there is only a small handful of present L2 clubs that would have a smidgeon of a chance of staying in the Championship for a number of seasons.

Bradford, obviously
Swindon
Bristol Rovers could but their ‘stadium’ will hold them back
Tranmere, possibly
Vale, based on their stadium

That’s probably about it

 

[The Jovial Forester]

I think the real metric should be how you compare against your local rivals; Tranmere are small by Merseyside standards, Vale aren't as big as Stoke and there must be half a dozen clubs in South Yorkshire that dwarf Bradford, but we absolutely piss all over Shortwood United by any measure bar windiness of the hill approaching the ground so I think that makes us winners.

 

[denzel ecfc]

Last time we were here we doubled the average L2 attendances

You sure about that? We only had 4000 home fans on Saturday, I'm pretty sure we weren't getting 2000 last season with fans...

 

[kieran_vale]

Yep fair points. I don’t know enough about the history of Vale to comment, I only go on really what I’ve seen in attendances/recent divisions where Vale have been lower than ours, although have a huge stadium.

Tempted to put you in massive category just because you have DC though

How’s he getting on?

I’d certainly put you ahead of us but I think it’s quite close overall if that makes sense? We’ll always have the potential with a larger stadium though assuming Rovers are still moving to a new one at some point then that becomes a big plus for yourselves too.

I think the majority of Vale fans are happy enough at present with how it’s going with DC. I think the rather slower start was expected but even through this we’ve been tough to beat which is good. There’s a small minority who don’t seem to like the way he just says the first thing that comes to his head at times (I actually love it) and Tom Popes appearance on a Vale podcast slating him and Flitcroft hasn’t helped that but those people are low in numbers.

 

[Bottega Don]

I think the real metric should be how you compare against your local rivals; Tranmere are small by Merseyside standards, Vale aren't as big as Stoke and there must be half a dozen clubs in South Yorkshire that dwarf Bradford, but we absolutely piss all over Shortwood United by any measure bar windiness of the hill approaching the ground so I think that makes us winners.

Bradford fans aren't gonna be happy being called South Yorkshire, you're in trouble here

 

[RiftHouseLad]

Newport down a tier and it's spot on for me.

Newport ( Notts Co ) in the National Lge for me, Thats the trouble coming from Hartlepool
grudges last a life time, Memories like fooking Elephants us, with skin twice as thick.
lol

 

[WilsdenBantam]

I think the real metric should be how you compare against your local rivals; Tranmere are small by Merseyside standards, Vale aren't as big as Stoke and there must be half a dozen clubs in South Yorkshire that dwarf Bradford, but we absolutely piss all over Shortwood United by any measure bar windiness of the hill approaching the ground so I think that makes us winners.

Think you need a geography lesson, only the Sheffield clubs dwarf us in South Yorkshire not like we want to be associated with that place. But I’d be interested to know who the other 4 are?

 

[valefan16]

Yep fair points. I don’t know enough about the history of Vale to comment, I only go on really what I’ve seen in attendances/recent divisions where Vale have been lower than ours, although have a huge stadium.

Tempted to put you in massive category just because you have DC though

How’s he getting on?

He has done well, he came in with us hurtling to non league, took a few games to turn us around but got the fitness up and the tactics working and we went on a crazy run of 8 wins and a draw in 9 (Think we only conceded 3 times in that run as well!)

Then he released nearly the whole squad (16 out of contracts I think) so has done a full rebuild, its needing patience at the moment but we look a good side just lacking goals, like how if he gets it wrong he will change it such as Saturday against Stevenage when the formation was totally wrong, changed it and flipped the game.

He doesnt mince his words which is good, I like the fact he keeps injuries under wraps rather than do managers homework for them and after too many "mr nice guy" managers since Micky its good to have someone like that again.

Pope's interview may have damaged his reputation with a few fans but will have to see on that one, if we perform on the pitch it won't matter.

 

[LS Bantam]

South Yorkshire? I’ve never been so insulted…

 

[chipmunx]

South Yorkshire? I’ve never been so insulted…

Lancashire.....

 

[Gassy]

South Yorkshire? I’ve never been so insulted…

The alternatives are North Midlands or South Scotland, take a pick.

 

[Gassy]

You sure about that? We only had 4000 home fans on Saturday, I'm pretty sure we weren't getting 2000 last season with fans...

I'm not sure what you mean?

We averaged 8k last time we were in L2, last I checked average L2 attendances was roughly 4k?

 

[Gassy]

I’d certainly put you ahead of us but I think it’s quite close overall if that makes sense? We’ll always have the potential with a larger stadium though assuming Rovers are still moving to a new one at some point then that becomes a big plus for yourselves too.

I think the majority of Vale fans are happy enough at present with how it’s going with DC. I think the rather slower start was expected but even through this we’ve been tough to beat which is good. There’s a small minority who don’t seem to like the way he just says the first thing that comes to his head at times (I actually love it) and Tom Popes appearance on a Vale podcast slating him and Flitcroft hasn’t helped that but those people are low in numbers.

Haha - we're always moving to a new stadium, haven't you heard? Been going on about 50 years now, but this time it's actually happening

He has done well, he came in with us hurtling to non league, took a few games to turn us around but got the fitness up and the tactics working and we went on a crazy run of 8 wins and a draw in 9 (Think we only conceded 3 times in that run as well!)

Then he released nearly the whole squad (16 out of contracts I think) so has done a full rebuild, its needing patience at the moment but we look a good side just lacking goals, like how if he gets it wrong he will change it such as Saturday against Stevenage when the formation was totally wrong, changed it and flipped the game.

He doesnt mince his words which is good, I like the fact he keeps injuries under wraps rather than do managers homework for them and after too many "mr nice guy" managers since Micky its good to have someone like that again.

Pope's interview may have damaged his reputation with a few fans but will have to see on that one, if we perform on the pitch it won't matter.

God I miss his openness on performances and players, but keeping his cards close to his chest. It's one of the reasons Barton is still liked by many (taking away the obvious issues).

DC's rebuilds can be a bit hit and miss tbh, I hope he gets it right for you. He has a good understanding of L2 but really struggled to take us to the next step in L1 tbh. We were competitive and he has an eye for a player, but he doesn't have the contacts/understanding to really push on into a Championship club.

I hope he'll be a success for you and doesn't end up being one of those merry-go-round managers in the lower leagues.

 

[MadJohn]

I'm sure if you'd asked the squad of Hartlepool United c.2001-07, which of their number would go on to be a successful lower division manager, the name of Darrell "Trigger" Clarke would've been way down the list!

Lovely bloke, cracking player for us, and apparently a great motivational figure to have in your dressing room. To illustrate that last point... we gave him a new contract in 2004. Injury then restricted him to six starts in two seasons, and yet we still offered a new deal in 2006. He never played again.

 

[JaredSUFC]

I think the real metric should be how you compare against your local rivals; Tranmere are small by Merseyside standards, Vale aren't as big as Stoke and there must be half a dozen clubs in South Yorkshire that dwarf Bradford, but we absolutely piss all over Shortwood United by any measure bar windiness of the hill approaching the ground so I think that makes us winners.

I generally approve of this measuring of who is a big club.

How does one measure Sutton in this though, since we’re on the border of Surrey and South London. As a London club we’re small fry. However we are the biggest club in Surrey. And compared to the other clubs in the London Borough of Sutton we’re giants.