Scottish fitba!

[St. Juste]

I didn't watch the game (or the home leg last week) as I refuse to pay extra for these games but in all honesty I wasn't surprised. I could say as a general throwaway thought that they really haven't been together for long but I'm not going to use that as an excuse. Going by what I've read and speaking to guys that watched the game they had a lot of possession but basically were clueless in the final third (same with the first leg)....kind of a la Warburton era & that is nowhere good enough....possession means heehaw unless there's a result at the end of it. Celtic apart, Scottish clubs are weak in Europe no matter how it's dressed up. I said last season that Rangers need a clear out of sorts and a right few new players in.....we now have brought in around 9 (I think) but obviously not of the standard for European competition. I'll wait and see how they perform domestically before I judge the new guys.

Nope, this failure is entirely on Rangers.

In recent years some clubs have done well, some not so well, like every other nation on earth.

But every SPFL team, and some in the Championship should be beating Luxembourg part timers - absolutely no excuse and a horrendous result for Rangers.

 

[rudebwoyben]

St Johnstone may not get through tonight but they did beat Rosenburg last season, who are surely a fair bit better than any team from Luxembourg.

 

[St. Juste]

St Johnstone may not get through tonight but they did beat Rosenburg last season, who are surely a fair bit better than any team from Luxembourg.

Correct, there have been poor results interspersed with good results - like all nations. It seems that whenever one team does badly Scottish football is at fault (rather than the players, manager) but whenever a team does well it has nothing to do with Scottish football (and everything to do with the players, manager).

Rather odd narrative.

Back in 2008 a far worse Aberdeen team than the current incarnation drew with Bayern Munich. It happens.

 

[Leo]

It seems that whenever one team does badly Scottish football is at fault (rather than the players, manager)

Exactly how do you work that out ? Try and answer without going on one of your utterly pathetic self indulgent ramblings.

 

[Leo]

Nope, this failure is entirely on Rangers.

In recent years some clubs have done well, some not so well, like every other nation on earth.

But every SPFL team, and some in the Championship should be beating Luxembourg part timers - absolutely no excuse and a horrendous result for Rangers.

Of course this failure is entirely down to Rangers. Only a fool like yourself would read something in a post by me that clearly was not present. Did you actually read the full post instead of jumping in and letting you belly rumble as is your want? The part you highlighted is an overall assessment and has absolutely nothing to do with Rangers failings the other night. God help you when there is something posted that has to be worked out!

 

[St. Juste]

Exactly how do you work that out ? Try and answer without going on one of your utterly pathetic self indulgent ramblings.

Look at the media coverage of the event.

Over the past 10-15 years Scottish teams have had good results and bad results, and generally punched above our weight coefficient / population wise. So to suggest Scottish teams generally struggle in Europe is not correct.

 

[Leo]

Look at the media coverage of the event.

Over the past 10-15 years Scottish teams have had good results and bad results, and generally punched above our weight coefficient / population wise. So to suggest Scottish teams generally struggle in Europe is not correct.

And what exactly have the media said...that Rangers failure is Scottish football's fault ? Didn't see that & if it is so then I wouldn't agree with it. Perhaps you could provide an example? Regards Scottish teams in Europe, outwith Celtic getting to group stages of the European Cup or last 16, how far have any other Scottish team gone in Europe apart from Rangers in the 2008 Uefa Cup....Nothing spectacular that I recall and even including Rangers 2008 I would still say outwith Celtic they are weak in Europe. If you consider a team getting to the 2nd qualifier or thereabouts as a success then fine...I don't.

 

[SALTIRE]

Indeed, Aberdeen are Scotland's second team these days and they never qualify for Europe either. Only Celtic now and again are equipped enough to do it.

It sounds like you're over it already though Leo if your eating plates of sausage rolls though. That's the spirit, move on!

 

[Leo]

Indeed, Aberdeen are Scotland's second team these days and they never qualify for Europe either. Only Celtic now and again are equipped enough to do it.

It sounds like you're over it already though Leo if your eating plates of sausage rolls though. That's the spirit, move on!

no use crying over spilt milk mate. Won't change fuck all. Looking forward to a top 6 position again this coming season..........................hopefully.....sausage rolls were better than that shite the night apparently.....

 

[Leo]

Well, back to the action....for me at any rate that is. Hearts v Dunfermline looked the pick of the bunch for my betting....this being the first since the end of last season....so an over 2.5 goals appeared particularly tasty at 4/6. Hearts started brightly but Dunfermline more than held their own however it was the Jambos who took the lead. Dunfermline equalised in the first half which imo was fairly even. Second half though was a totally different story. Hearts were fucking woeful and the Pars certainly didn't play like a team a division below them. Dunfermline took the lead before Hearts drew level with minutes to go. So on to the penalty shoot out which Dunfermline won. Don't know how long Cathro will hold on to his job but the fans certainly were not amused. The Jambos will have to buck up their game for the coming league campaign!

 

[Super_horns]

Saltire - so what do you count today's derby result as!?

Guess Dundee United fans will claim a win.

BTW Bad start to the season for Hearts - out of a cup before the league has begun!

 

[SALTIRE]

Saltire - so what do you count today's derby result as!?

Guess Dundee United fans will claim a win.

BTW Bad start to the season for Hearts - out of a cup before the league has begun!

It was a weird game. Was out at Arbroath but had the second half on the radio. I've no idea what it was, but even though Utd fans will be buoyed by this, they are still only a championship side whilst the mighty Dees are in the elite!

 

[Leo]

It was a weird game. Was out at Arbroath but had the second half on the radio. I've no idea what it was, but even though Utd fans will be buoyed by this, they are still only a championship side whilst the mighty Dees are in the elite!

It was the right result for me as I had fifty on BTTS. The game really was a 'game of two halfs'. First half was all huffing and puffing from both teams from penalty box to penalty box but, Utd's goal apart, the composure by both teams in the final thirds was abysmal. Second half was certainly better regards attempts. Overall imo there wasn't a lot between the teams but Scott Allan certainly stood out....an excellent performance by him.

Also yesterday Rangers put on a good performance at Hillsborough and beat Wednesday 0-2 with goals from Windass & Kenny Miller. Hopefully that pathetic display in the Europa qualifier is out of the system as we get down to business in the league next weekend.

 

[Super_horns]

It was a weird game. Was out at Arbroath but had the second half on the radio. I've no idea what it was, but even though Utd fans will be buoyed by this, they are still only a championship side whilst the mighty Dees are in the elite!

And it looks like you've got another chance to put them in their place!

 

[SALTIRE]

Apparently Utd's goal in the stroke of half time came against the run of play but I only had the game on 5 minutes when they scored. Didn't catch the second half as I was walking along the cliffs watching Poles and Romanians fish and generally risk their lives for their tea; but got back for the pens.

 

[Benji]

Cathro has been sacked by Hearts. Good news for me as I usually pick him to be my number 2 on Football Manager.

 

[DarkSithLord]

Cathro has been sacked by Hearts. Good news for me as I usually pick him to be my number 2 on Football Manager.

Surprised he lasted as long as he did.

 

[SALTIRE]

Real shame that as I like what he's about and he's had a varied career so far, but it looks like it was too much too soon for him yet.

 

[Super_horns]

Guess the demand is quite high at Hearts so 5th was always going to be disappointing and then to be dumped out by 2 lower league teams in the Cup doesn't help.

 

[Gulliball]

They were 3rd when he took over though, and fighting for 2nd. His record over his 22 games in charge was less than one point per game and would have had them rock bottom 12th out of 12 in a 22 game league for those games. To take a side performing very well and get those results makes this very warranted.

They obviously wanted to give him time to turn it around, but losing to Peterhead, struggling so badly against Elgin and then crashing out vs Dunfermline was too much to overcome. I wouldn't trust him to lead the new league season, and he's lost the fanbase. At Hearts that is more important than most clubs as they are investing heavily with a view to being fan owned.

It was a brave appointment and could have worked out very well, but from what he's shown he's lacking in the man management, leadership and media skills to be a number one. His tenure has been getting embarrassing recently.

Barring a complete change in character, he'll go back to being a very highly rated coach. I don't see him ever being a successful manager though.

 

[Super_horns]

Looks like Aberdeen are going out of Europe - seem to find it hard getting past the play-off stage.

 

[Gulliball]

3rd round. That's 4 years in a row at the exact same stage. By Scottish standards they have a very good side, but not enough to make the group stages in Europe. The margin isn't huge - just one away goal today makes a world of difference - but they seem to have hit a plateau without spending beyond their means.

Domestically is more interesting though. Battle with Rangers and Hibs for 2nd place and then need to replace Christie, Stewart and Armason next summer. Then about the same again in Europe and hoping for a break or a few kind draws.

 

[Leo]

Domestically is more interesting though. Battle with Rangers and Hibs for 2nd place and then need to replace Christie, Stewart and Armason next summer. Then about the same again in Europe and hoping for a break or a few kind draws.

Interesting it certainly will be. Celtic will obviously be top again but 2nd spot will be paramount for those three teams and imo any of them could take it. Obviously I hope it is Rangers but they have a lot of hard work to do. After the shambles against Progres they seem to have come on a bit in the games against Marseille, Watford and Wednesday. All going well they new boys will have got to know each other better and gel as a unit on the pitch. Sunday's game against Motherwell will be a pointer but I won't be taking too much out of the game whichever way it goes.

 

[Leo]

Normal service as usual over at Parkhead. After a bright start by the Jambos they basically collapsed after Celtic got their first by the best striker in Scotland. Things aren't right down Tynecastle way and on this showing they have a helluva lot of work to do AND get a new gaffer in. Celtic played well enough but tbf any team playing well enough would have stuffed Hearts yesterday. Hearts managed to pull one back near the end but it was a well deserved win for Celtic...4-1.

At Easter Road Hibs got their campaign off to a great start by beating Partick, who actually took the lead, 3-1. Fantastic crowd of around 19,000 attended. Hopefully that will continue.

Salty won't be happy mind you with his number one team losing at home 1-2 to Ross County.

 

[Liam_SWFC]

Great start for Celtic, saw Hearts last week in Cathro's final game and they were clueless so no surprise in that result. Looking forward to the Rangers game today, really hope the Gers can push dirty Celtic all the way this season and make it interesting. Think Hibernian could be the team to challenge the old firm this season, especially if Simon Murray keeps up this scoring form.

 

[Leo]

Great start for Celtic, saw Hearts last week in Cathro's final game and they were clueless so no surprise in that result. Looking forward to the Rangers game today, really hope the Gers can push dirty Celtic all the way this season and make it interesting. Think Hibernian could be the team to challenge the old firm this season, especially if Simon Murray keeps up this scoring form.

Well yesterday Rangers got off to a great start by scoring in 3 minutes. They had several chances after that with Windass hitting the post and the bar but the defence went to sleep and allowed Motherwell to equalise. Dorrans took his first goal well and both he and Ryan Jack had fine games. Motherwell matched Rangers certainly for effort and had a few chances late on and if I'm being honest could quite easily have also been awarded a penalty due to Tavernier pushing one of their players in the box. Rangers penalty was a stick on with Moult elbowing Cardoso in the head at a corner. Overall a bit of a struggle at times but a win is a win at a difficult ground. No chicken counting here as to challenging Celtic seriously for top spot but honestly cannot see it.

 

[Gulliball]

Big win for Hibs yesterday, 3-2 at Ibrox. On paper I think they have a squad to seriously compete right at the top and have a good manager for the job.

Aberdeen got a 2-1 win at Ross County to also keep a 100% record - with new signing Stevie May starting. Keep him fit and he'll be a great signing - just a shame it wasn't a month ago before the European games.

Leo - as a question, hand on heart, aren't you embarrassed by the statements coming out of Rangers and one like today from Club 1872 in recent years?

Amusing for everyone else, but don't you wish for a more mature response to something not going your way?

Club 1872 would like to commend the restraint of the Rangers support following a clear attempt by Hibernian manager, Neil Lennon, to incite trouble at yesterday’s game at Ibrox.
Rangers and Club 1872 are always keen to remind our supporters of their duty to act as ambassadors for our club but that duty is not one that applies only to Rangers supporters.
Mr Lennon has previous for abusing and goading both Rangers staff and supporters. He seems completely unable to control himself at Ibrox. We can only speculate as to why. His actions in the dugout yesterday – where he made various inflammatory gestures to the supporters sitting directly behind the Hibernian dugout – were not becoming of any football manager, never mind one who likes to play the victim when things do not go his way. It is inexplicable that the fourth official chose to take no action against him at the time but, against the backdrop of possibly the worst refereeing performance ever seen at Ibrox, perhaps we should not be surprised.
Mr Lennon has been extensively quoted in the media as saying that he “didn’t make a gesture”. If that quote is accurate then he is not only irresponsible but a liar.
Had a Rangers supporter reacted to Mr Lennon’s actions yesterday then we would no doubt have been treated to further dramatic headlines about the persecution he has to suffer. Instead we have seen several media commentators make jokes about Lennon’s conduct. It is only because of the good sense of our supporters that they are in a position to do so.
Police Scotland categorised this match as high risk due to the behaviour of Hibernian supporters at the Scottish Cup Final in 2016 when Rangers players were attacked on the pitch. Neil Lennon knew that and he knew he had a responsibility to act in an appropriate manner. He shirked that responsibility and reverted to type.
We hope that Police Scotland will speak directly to Mr Lennon over the coming days and at the very least give him a warning over his future conduct at Ibrox. We also expect the SPFL to take action against Mr Lennon over his failed attempt to incite trouble.

 

[Super_horns]

Isn't he a bit of a hot head wherever he goes..

Not a quiet one on the touchline.

 

[St. Juste]

Surprisingly good banter from Lennon.

Anyone wound up in the slightest by what he did should seek professional help.

Always love it when pantomime villains give some back.

 

[Leo]

Big win for Hibs yesterday, 3-2 at Ibrox. On paper I think they have a squad to seriously compete right at the top and have a good manager for the job.

Aberdeen got a 2-1 win at Ross County to also keep a 100% record - with new signing Stevie May starting. Keep him fit and he'll be a great signing - just a shame it wasn't a month ago before the European games.

Leo - as a question, hand on heart, aren't you embarrassed by the statements coming out of Rangers and one like today from Club 1872 in recent years?

Amusing for everyone else, but don't you wish for a more mature response to something not going your way?

I'll speak about the actual game first before I give my opinion on your question Gulliball. I have absolutely no complaints with the result. I am a great believer in the fact that if a team scores more goals than it's opponents then it deserves to win the game irrespective of stats like possession, corners, attempts etc. However, from what I have heard, read & seen this was one of the most incompetent & inconsistent refereeing performances that has been seen at Ibrox in many a year. Now believe me, I am not one for criticising referees because they have a hell of a pressure job to do and everybody can make mistakes. Rangers sending off, Ryan Jack, from the videos I have seen was a total farce.....he has been accused of nutting Anthony Stokes....he didn't. For whatever reason, during the melee, Jack and Stokes got involved, Stokes grabbed Jack by the throat and then their heads slightly came together. Now if Jack's action is to be deemed a red card offence surely Stokes has to go also (but he was already on a yellow...more about that in a moment) ? The actual incident was kicked off by a very rash challenge on Dorrans from behind by a Hibs player (can't mind his name) and both these players had a bit of a push at each other (but only Dorrans was booked). As for Stokes....I have seen a short video of his booking and for the ref to simply give him a yellow when you consider Jack's red is imo beyond comprehension. Stokes and Tavernier were jostling for the ball, Tavernier got in front of him, Stokes couldn't get past him to get the ball so he grabs Tavernier round the neck and shoulders and throws him to the ground. Unbelievably Tavernier was also booked (don't know if this will work....https://mobile.twitt...1713153/video/1
).

Right as for the statement that you produce....To be honest, no I'm not embarrassed, although I don't give much thought to such utterances, and I'll explain why. I'll say from the start that perhaps I'm in a minority but whatever actions or gestures that players or managers fling back at the crowd doesn't bother me in the slightest....If the supporters are big enough to dish it out then they should be big enough to accept what they receive in return. However Neil Lennon courts controversy and his actions could be (and were) seen by some is incitement and inflammatory and he does have previous at Ibrox. I recall an incident up at Inverness when he went crazy on the touchline kicking water bottles all over the place and more recently the idiotic carry on with Jim Duffy where he again didn't cover himself in glory. One part of the above statement which I don't agree with and believe it is unnecessary is the hope that the Police speak to him. As the largest supporters group and having a large shareholding they (Club 1872) are to be expected to make their feelings known on certain aspects and incidents and obviously their leanings will be towards the club rather than attempt to appease anyone outwith and if other teams fans find it 'amusing' I wouldn't imagine they will bother one jot for one simple reason.....it would not matter whatever was said in a released statement very few outside Rangers supporters would agree with it.

I probably have read previous statements from Club 1872 and Rangers FC in the past but I honestly don't recall what they said and I would have to assess on a one by one basis to give you any reaction on them. As I previously said, I don't give a lot of thought to them...I prefer to concentrate on what happens on the pitch.

PS...I had £50 on over 2.5 goals so not disappointed in the goals tally.....