Shearer or Rooney

[Pagnell]

The key for me is scoring on the big stage in major tournament finals. And Rooney's record in that respect simply doesn't cut it with just two goals in Euro or World Cup finals since his breakthrough tournament in 2004. So basically two goals in four tournament finals. All his competition (be it Lineker, Shearer or one if the older generation) have a better record when it really counts.

 

[johnnytodd]

Over 60% of Alan Shearers goals were scored against teams finishing 15th or lower in the Premier league, teams like

Coventry City, Sheffield Wednesday, Middlesborough, Ipswich, West Ham, Bolton and Forest etc

he averaged just 1 goal per season against the top 4 clubs over his career

 

[johnnytodd]

Wayne Rooney either scored or assisted in 279 games from 356 he started in the Premier League which is record

compared to 287 goals or assists from Shearer in a massive 427 games .........which isn't even top 10

more FACTS to follow

 

[johnnytodd]

 

[AFCB_Mark]

To use the same logic, most commonly Wayne Rooney's England goals have been scored against Andora, San Marino, Liechtenstein, Slovenia, and Kazahkstan,

I suggest Coventry City, Sheffield Wednesday, Middlesborough, Ipswich, West Ham, Bolton and Forest are all better sides.

 

[johnnytodd]

To use the same logic, most commonly Wayne Rooney's England goals have been scored against Andora, San Marino, Liechtenstein, Slovenia, and Kazahkstan,

I suggest Coventry City, Sheffield Wednesday, Middlesborough, Ipswich, West Ham, Bolton and Forest are all better sides.

How many World Cups did Shearers England even qualify for?

 

[Shank]

Well Wayne you did it son
Wayne Rooney 50

God stop with the Rooney love-in todd. Bet you're one of those who hated and villified him when he left, kissed the badge whilst scoring for United at Goodison. Calling him every name under the s*n.
Comes back for Duncans testimonial and you're all creaming over him now, pathetic.

 

[mnb089mnb]

It's really difficult to cut through the effluent that johnnytodd has left throughout this thread but...

WRT Champions League goals Rooney scored his goals over a longer, extended period. The same goal per game ratio done over a longer time (four times longer) is more impressive. Especially as many of Rooney's games were deep in competitions, whereas Shearer's weren't. Rooney has played in 4x as many CL games as Shearer. His record is certainly more impressive.

Comparing Shearer's goals at international tournaments with Wayne Rooney is also problematic as Shearer had the huge advantage of playing in a home tournament. Rooney was often patched up injured and sent out onto the field by England when he was nowhere near fully fit (this happened more than once). Rooney has been quite unlucky when it comes to major tournaments but you can never question his loyalty to the England cause, unlike Shearer who retired from internationals at 29.

None of this means Rooney is better than Shearer. I'm not even sure comparisons between two players even work. However, I do feel there is a bit of "familiarity breeds contempt" regarding Rooney, playing for Manchester United and an England side that isn't particularly well liked by many football supporters means he'll never be truly 'loved' by many.

 

[mnb089mnb]

The key for me is scoring on the big stage in major tournament finals. And Rooney's record in that respect simply doesn't cut it with just two goals in Euro or World Cup finals since his breakthrough tournament in 2004. So basically two goals in four tournament finals. All his competition (be it Lineker, Shearer or one if the older generation) have a better record when it really counts.

Removing Wayne Rooney's goals from Euro 2004 is a bit harsh isn't it? That was one of the only tournaments he was fully fit for - before being injured. I'm not sure it'd be fair to remove Shearer's goals in Euro 96 or Lineker's from WC86. Seems a very strange way to rate a player.

 

[smat]

Removing Wayne Rooney's goals from Euro 2004 is a bit harsh isn't it? That was one of the only tournaments he was fully fit for - before being injured. I'm not sure it'd be fair to remove Shearer's goals in Euro 96 or Lineker's from WC86. Seems a very strange way to rate a player.

"Ignoring the statistics which contradict my point of view..."

 

[IanH]

Removing Wayne Rooney's goals from Euro 2004 is a bit harsh isn't it? That was one of the only tournaments he was fully fit for - before being injured. I'm not sure it'd be fair to remove Shearer's goals in Euro 96 or Lineker's from WC86. Seems a very strange way to rate a player.

Yeah, Pagnell seemed to have this argument won back on Page 5, but another ten posts or so of repeating himself (as he is wont to do) and manipulating data, and some intriguing (if dubious) recent statistics by JohnnyTodd have really thrown it up in the air. It's anyone's now.


For anyone who would like to look at some pretty graphs that may, or may not, reveal something about a few of the English game's greatest strikers...

First one looking at club career goal totals of Rooney, Owen, Shearer, Sheringham, Lineker, Greaves and Charlton, showing how many goals the player had scored by the end of the season they turned 18 until retirement.

This second one shows their international goals, also shown by year they turned 18 until they retired. Games played are not represented.

 

[G-Dragon]

 

[merseyboyred]

Who is this imbecile, usually Evertonians are the sound ones.

 

[SALTIRE]

A pretty good sample size for the polls now and it's 10 to 1 in favour of Shearer. Sorry todds your fighting against the wind on this one though you are blowing pretty hard yourself.

 

[johnnytodd]

A pretty good sample size for the polls now and it's 10 to 1 in favour of Shearer. Sorry todds your fighting against the wind on this one though you are blowing pretty hard yourself.

As predicted fans are fickle regarding Rooney but the facts are there. Even though not an out and our striker there is only 1 official greatest ever striker in the record books.

And for England it is Wayne Rooney !

What Liverpool armchairs like you and Pagnell think is not important.

Once again thanks for everything Sir Wayne !

 

[johnnytodd]

Rooney's record even stands up very well when compared to the two greatest players of his generation.

Cristiano - 122/55
Rooney - 107/50
Messi - 105/49

 

[merseyboyred]

Ali Daei 149/109

 

[johnnytodd]

Yeah, Pagnell seemed to have this argument won back on Page 5, but another ten posts or so of repeating himself (as he is wont to do) and manipulating data, and some intriguing (if dubious) recent statistics by JohnnyTodd have really thrown it up in the air. It's anyone's now.


For anyone who would like to look at some pretty graphs that may, or may not, reveal something about a few of the English game's greatest strikers...

First one looking at club career goal totals of Rooney, Owen, Shearer, Sheringham, Lineker, Greaves and Charlton, showing how many goals the player had scored by the end of the season they turned 18 until retirement.

View attachment 1764


This second one shows their international goals, also shown by year they turned 18 until they retired. Games played are not represented.

View attachment 1765

independent graphs to prove i'm correct at last...............feel free to apologize below.

 

[Munkiki]

Ali Daei 149/109

Stern John - 115/70

officially better than Messi and Ronaldo

 

[johnnytodd]

Stern John - 115/70

officially better than Messi and Ronaldo

Pagnell logic:

 

[JoshBCFC]

there were however minnows in every era of football it's not just recently 20 of Charlton's for example came against the weak home nations and luxembourg. I'm not saying there is anything bad but it's utter stupidity to only complain about the easier games Rooney scored in when strikers throughout the history of football have scored against weaker nations. Lineker scored 24 in friendlies including 4 against Malaysia in 1 match. Tom finney who you mention scored nearly all of his goals in the Home nations championship which England won 70% of the time during his international career and almost 1/3 of his goals came against N Ireland or Wales (before they had the pass it to Gareth Strategy ).

Minnows in football are nothing new.

Fair enough, you are correct there.

But if we now switch the debate back to Shearer vs Rooney (for those who believe Shearer is worse...), Shearer only scored 5 goals against "minnows" . Rooney has scored most of his against the minnows.

How many World Cups did Shearers England even qualify for?

I'm not even going to bother repeat myself now. Your logic is clearly fucked somehow, you seem to think that the team quality has something to do with individual quality. I believe i call that being utterly clueless and an armchair fan.

 

[Jarv]

WTF are you on about i said i'd have Shearer over Rooney in like the third post in this thread. Try actually reading the thread before making yourself look a fool in future.

i'm just sick of people beating modern players with the minnows stick. Shearer scored 7 of his 30 against Greece, Moldova, Tunisia and Luxembourg. Hardly world beating teams. That's nearly 1/4 of his international goals. No need to start being offensive.

 

[johnnytodd]

WTF are you on about i said i'd have Shearer over Rooney in like the third post in this thread. Try actually reading the thread before making yourself look a fool in future.

i'm just sick of people beating modern players with the minnows stick. Shearer scored 7 of his 30 against Greece, Moldova, Tunisia and Luxembourg. Hardly world beating teams. That's nearly 1/4 of his international goals. No need to start being offensive.

People cannot accept when they are wrong or go against the armchair view. You are correct Rooney is the complete player and Shearer is a goalscorer with a similar record albeit not as good.

The original question was nothing to do with goal record and therefore because Shearer has not proved it at the top level, the most obvious and educated choice is Rooney.

People just assume and post without careful consideration.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

My two pennies on the debate:

Rooney suffers because of the hope, the hope what he was going to be, he was the most exciting English prospect in a lifetime and deservedly so, those first few seasons, littered with temperament problems and inconsistency, were fantastic to watch. A fearless young lad, who took on and beat defenders, there has been no comparison in my lifetime. Rooney is certainly a more varied player than Shearer was, and this has perhaps worked to his detriment, sandwiched next to Ronaldo and Tevez he shouldered much of the dirty work in that side and his inspirational brilliance seemed to dim, and I don't think it's ever come back. He was brilliant as an outright number 9 for a period but I never felt it got the very best from him and his very best, in my opinion, should have been as one of the best players in the world.

Shearer doesn't have that disappointment, he was prolific always, always did his job and was arguably the best centre forward England have produced. I can't remember his Blackburn days but by all accounts that was his peak. He didn't have the skillset of Rooney, but was better at his role than Rooney has been at his I think. Also Euro 1996, Britpop, feel good summer with Shearer scoring goals in a hot summer. That etches itself into memory as does Rooney's inspid performance against Algeria and then swearing at the fans in 2010.

They'd make a great partnership, I can't really choose which one I'd rather have. Only that I think Rooney is more adaptable and would fit into more teams and styles.

 

[johnnytodd]

My two pennies on the debate:

Rooney suffers because of the hope, the hope what he was going to be, he was the most exciting English prospect in a lifetime and deservedly so, those first few seasons, littered with temperament problems and inconsistency, were fantastic to watch. A fearless young lad, who took on and beat defenders, there has been no comparison in my lifetime. Rooney is certainly a more varied player than Shearer was, and this has perhaps worked to his detriment, sandwiched next to Ronaldo and Tevez he shouldered much of the dirty work in that side and his inspirational brilliance seemed to dim, and I don't think it's ever come back. He was brilliant as an outright number 9 for a period but I never felt it got the very best from him and his very best, in my opinion, should have been as one of the best players in the world.

Shearer doesn't have that disappointment, he was prolific always, always did his job and was arguably the best centre forward England have produced. I can't remember his Blackburn days but by all accounts that was his peak. He didn't have the skillset of Rooney, but was better at his role than Rooney has been at his I think. Also Euro 1996, Britpop, feel good summer with Shearer scoring goals in a hot summer. That etches itself into memory as does Rooney's inspid performance against Algeria and then swearing at the fans in 2010.

They'd make a great partnership, I can't really choose which one I'd rather have. Only that I think Rooney is more adaptable and would fit into more teams and styles.

Good post but the white elephant in the room is Shearer only scored against lower table English teams...........Rooney scored against the lot and in Europe too and not even as number 9.

No comparison Rooney is a level above Shearer.

 

[IanH]

My two pennies on the debate:

Also Euro 1996, Britpop...

Reminds me of the missing 1996 verse from that Billy Joel song...

"We Didn't Beat the Germans, cos we're always choking, and the country's broken,
We Didn't Beat the Germans, in spite of Gazza lunging, all our hearts went plunging.
We Didn't Beat the Germans, although Dazza curled one, our hopes were undone,
We Didn't Beat the Germans, who let Southgate take it, when he's useless pigshit?

Matthew Pinsent, Steve Redgrave, our only gold while Linford strays,
Cantona sinks Liverpool, and Wannabe makes young boys drool.
Twister is a blockbuster, the IRA in Manchester,
Camila and Charles boning, Dolly gets a cloning.

"We Didn't Beat the Germans, cos we're always choking, and the country's broken,
We Didn't Beat the Germans, even with Badiel and Skinner, we couldn't get a winner.
We Didn't Beat the Germans, despite Psycho atoning, we were all left groaning,
We Didn't Beat the Germans, who let Southgate take it, when he's useless pigshit?

Mandela meets Queen Lizzie, Old Bailey gets real busy,
Mad Cows to the abattoire, tragic Dumblane masarce.
The Channel Tunnel's a cooker, Damon wins in Sazuka.
Tony Blair is bilingual? Lady Diana is single!!

"We Didn't Beat the Germans, cos we're always choking, and the country's broken,
We Didn't Beat the Germans, so much for El Tel, Muller made it seem hell.
We Didn't Beat the Germans, we trusted Al and Teddy but we fell to Jerry,
We Didn't Beat the Germans, who let Southgate take it, when he's useless pigshit?

 

[johnnytodd]

 

[johnnytodd]

Shearer the peno king too lol......class ! His goal scoring record looks a bit weak if you take away penalties.

Alan Shearer 67 56 83.58
Frank Lampard 49 43 87.76
Matthew le Tissier 26 25 96.15
Steven Gerrard 30 23 76.67
Thierry Henry 25 23 92

 

[Veggie Legs]

I think Dodger has got it spot on above. Rooney set the bar so high for himself in the first few years that he's criticised for being merely a great player and not the best in the world.