The great Poppy debate..

[Super_horns]

As with a few years ago England (and Scotland) naturally want to be allowed to wear a poppy to remember those who lost their lives in battle.

But FIFA are refusing to allow this claiming its a political symbol:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37832115

Where do you stand on this...

A minutes' silence of respect enough or should FIFA be ignored?

 

[silkyman]

The same issue came up a few years ago and was compromised by the players wearing black armbands with a poppy on them. Why not just do that again?

 

[GodsGift]

Expect this thread to be deleted in 3, 2, 1...

 

[Dirk]

But FIFA are refusing to allow this claiming its a political symbol:

I,personally, don't have any problems when they wear the poppy on this special day. Remembering those who lost their lives in war and who fought for the freedom is not a political "action" or "symbol" in my eyes but showing respect to those.

Expect this thread to be deleted in 3, 2, 1...

What's wrong with this thread? Why should they delete it?

 

[GodsGift]

What's wrong with this thread? Why should they delete it?

Nothing is wrong with it, but a similar one was deleted yesterday.

 

[johnnytodd]

We should do what we want, these pc vote remain pricks do my head in.

 

[Leo]

Wearing a Poppy at this time of the year is NOT a political symbol. Politicians of whatever party may attempt to use the poppy/wearing of as some form of agenda which is probably why it is said from some corners that it is 'political' but that does NOT come near the fact that it is a measure of 'Respect'. Fuck FIFA....if the squads want to have this symbol adorn their shirt then yes, they should do it.

 

[johnnytodd]

Wearing a Poppy at this time of the year is NOT a political symbol. Politicians of whatever party may attempt to use the poppy/wearing of as some form of agenda which is probably why it is said from some corners that it is 'political' but that does NOT come near the fact that it is a measure of 'Respect'. Fuck FIFA....if the squads want to have this symbol adorn their shirt then yes, they should do it.

And any player who doesn't wear one should be banned from playing for his national side....british ones of course.

 

[AnimoEtFide]

Wearing a Poppy at this time of the year is NOT a political symbol. Politicians of whatever party may attempt to use the poppy/wearing of as some form of agenda which is probably why it is said from some corners that it is 'political' but that does NOT come near the fact that it is a measure of 'Respect'. Fuck FIFA....if the squads want to have this symbol adorn their shirt then yes, they should do it.

Out of interest, how would you feel about the Argentinian national side wearing something to commemorate those who died in the Falklands conflict? Or Serbia commemorating the military dead of the Yugoslav wars? Or Syria and the current civil war?

 

[Leo]

Out of interest, how would you feel about the Argentinian national side wearing something to commemorate those who died in the Falklands conflict? Or Serbia commemorating the military dead of the Yugoslav wars? Or Syria and the current civil war?

What other countries do as a mark of respect for those they feel deserve it is entirely a matter for said countries and THEIR residents. As far as this issue is concerned I concentrate and comment on the UK's actions.

 

[AnimoEtFide]

What other countries do as a mark of respect for those they feel deserve it is entirely a matter for said countries and THEIR residents. As far as this issue is concerned I concentrate and comment on the UK's actions.

But the whole point is that it isn't up to each country. We're talking about a rule which every FIFA member must abide by if it wants to remain a member of the organisation. Unless you're advocating a repeal of the rule in its entirety, in which case national teams could put whatever they want on their shirts irrespective of political message.

 

[johnnytodd]

But the whole point is that it isn't up to each country. We're talking about a rule which every FIFA member must abide by if it wants to remain a member of the organisation. Unless you're advocating a repeal of the rule in its entirety, in which case national teams could put whatever they want on their shirts irrespective of political message.

fuck FIFA we invented the game mate its up to us

 

[Leo]

But the whole point is that it isn't up to each country. We're talking about a rule which every FIFA member must abide by if it wants to remain a member of the organisation. Unless you're advocating a repeal of the rule in its entirety, in which case national teams could put whatever they want on their shirts irrespective of political message.

Is the ruling not that no POLITICAL symbol/message can be shown? My opinion is that showing a Poppy at this time of the year is NOT political it is a mark/symbol of respect hence my first post & that the ruling on this occasion should be ignored.

 

[Dirk]

fuck FIFA we invented the game mate its up to us

No, johnny it isn't up to you as long as "you" want to be a member of the FIFA. Like AnimoEtFide wrote!
This is an official FIFA match so you have to "abide" by their decisions. It's like the EU....Start a FIFA Referendum "FI(FA)xit" and if you are out you can wear as many poppies on your shirt as you like.

Like I said before I don't have any problems with it when the british players wear a poppy at this special day but if FIFA rejects it, you have to do that if you don't want a fine or whatever...

 

[Destruction]

Hope it remains banned just to wind the Poppy Police up.

 

[AnimoEtFide]

Is the ruling not that no POLITICAL symbol/message can be shown? My opinion is that showing a Poppy at this time of the year is NOT political it is a mark/symbol of respect hence my first post & that the ruling on this occasion should be ignored.

That's the rule yeah. So are you saying the examples I cited before aren't political? Coz the problem is finding a criteria for determining what symbols are and aren't political. And the 'let people decide for themselves' approach doesn't really address that.

 

[Leo]

No, johnny it isn't up to you as long as "you" want to be a member of the FIFA. Like AnimoEtFide wrote!
This is an official FIFA match so you have to "abide" by their decisions. It's like the EU....Start a FIFA Referendum "FI(FA)xit" and if you are out you can wear as many poppies on your shirt as you like.

Like I said before I don't have any problems with it when the british players wear a poppy at this special day but if FIFA rejects it, you have to do that if you don't want a fine or whatever...

But Dirk, this is an organisation that has ordered Scotland to wear their '2nd' strip when they play England at Wembley. England home top is normally white and Scotland's first top is navy blue....however because the sleeve of this strip is white FIFA has flexed its self important muscles and decided there is a colour clash......

Oh my God...there are white shorts also! The players would never work out who is who Scotland's 2nd top is.......

First time ever that I can recall that this has been deemed such an issue. Why are FIFA doing this ? Because they can mate!

 

[Leo]

That's the rule yeah. So are you saying the examples I cited before aren't political? Coz the problem is finding a criteria for determining what symbols are and aren't political. And the 'let people decide for themselves' approach doesn't really address that.

I said that wearing the poppy is not political. I said that I was concerned only in the UK's position regards this. I also said that what other countries do (and that includes determining whether they view it as a political symbol) is entirely up to them & why should it not be? If there is a problem in determining then that will have to be solved by whomever.

 

[Dirk]

But Dirk, this is an organisation that has ordered Scotland to wear their '2nd' strip when they play England at Wembley. England home top is normally white and Scotland's first top is navy blue....however because the sleeve of this strip is white FIFA has flexed its self important muscles and decided there is a colour clash......

Oh my God...there are white shorts also! The players would never work out who is who Scotland's 2nd top is......

First time ever that I can recall that this has been deemed such an issue. Why are FIFA doing this ? Because they can mate!

Scandalous . Maybe they even ordered that we have to play in our (fucking ugly) away shirts for the England match in our own capital Berlin? (or maybe it was only a failed promotion "coup" of Adidas )



Just to clarify: I don't like the corrupt FIFA and many of their decisions are very questionable.

 

[JimJams]

The FA should have made a commemorative kit that featured the poppy. It is afterall in sync with our colour scheme so I'm sure they could have done something.

BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[johnnytodd]

No, johnny it isn't up to you as long as "you" want to be a member of the FIFA. Like AnimoEtFide wrote!
This is an official FIFA match so you have to "abide" by their decisions. It's like the EU....Start a FIFA Referendum "FI(FA)xit" and if you are out you can wear as many poppies on your shirt as you like.

Like I said before I don't have any problems with it when the british players wear a poppy at this special day but if FIFA rejects it, you have to do that if you don't want a fine or whatever...

You should be able wear what you want when you want no matter who you are...........i wouldn't mind Iraq players wearing IED'S in their underpants.......each to their own i say.

 

[JimJams]

Soooooo...

How do we think people would react if India wanted to put a swastika on their kit? Or y'know just stick it on an armband?

 

[Leo]

Soooooo...

How do we think people would react if India wanted to put a swastika on their kit? Or y'know just stick it on an armband?

Loaded question JJ but out of interest.....how many countries do you think would actually want to show such a symbol on their top or even armband?

 

[johnnytodd]

Soooooo...

How do we think people would react if India wanted to put a swastika on their kit? Or y'know just stick it on an armband?

Fine.....next.

 

[JimJams]

Loaded question JJ but out of interest.....how many countries do you think would actually want to show such a symbol on their top or even armband?

Plenty of Hindu and Buddhist ones potentially.

 

[Leo]

Plenty of Hindu and Buddhist ones potentially.

To be honest I wasn't aware of that....information that hasn't crossed my path before. However I read that it was used by such countries for thousands of years prior to it being used by Germany during the war. Not only was it used by Hindu & Buddhist culture it was also used in advertising far more recently....

So in reality it is not 'only' a symbol of a certain regime during the war therefor should it only be viewed as simply that? Before anyone could answer your initial question I think it would depend on whatever country was using it and giving their explanation as to why.

 

[TomPNE94]

Is the ruling not that no POLITICAL symbol/message can be shown? My opinion is that showing a Poppy at this time of the year is NOT political it is a mark/symbol of respect hence my first post & that the ruling on this occasion should be ignored.

and in some people's opinion it is most definitely a political symbol.

Why is this an issue all of a sudden? I'm sure the players don't really give a fuck whether their shirt has a poppy on it. Grief/remembrance is a state of mind, not a fashion symbol.

 

[SALTIRE]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/01/wearing-poppy-meaningful-voluntary-footballers

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ifas-poppy-ban-the-latest-remembrance-outrage

A year old but still as relevant.

 

[Leo]

and in some people's opinion it is most definitely a political symbol.
View attachment 4985

Why is this an issue all of a sudden? I'm sure the players don't really give a fuck whether their shirt has a poppy on it. Grief/remembrance is a state of mind, not a fashion symbol.

That is their opinion and they are entitled to it. Imo it definitely is NOT, an opinion to which I am entitled. It is mark of respect,...not a fucking fashion statement! As to why it is an issue all of a sudden ? Why do FIFA see it as an issue....I'm sure it has more important in-house things to be getting on with like making sure there are no more thieves & corrupt bastards in its organisation instead of flexing its muscles simply because it can.

 

[Look Out There Are Llamas]

Former members of the armed forces are more likely to suffer from mental health issues and homelessness. I'm sure a blimming poppy on the England kit will solve everything. Jesus wept.