The great Poppy debate..

[St. Juste]

Do you mean antifa volunteers fighting with rojava ?

There are UK nationals in these conflicts supporting various groups.

 

[Aber gas]

I’m not sure where you’re going with this. I do support volunteers fighting Daesh. I think they’re brave and doing important work.
Back to my original point, the folk who fight in wars aren’t the same folk who make wars happen. It’s perfectly possible to advocate troops out and still have solidarity with the people caught in the aftermath.

 

[St. Juste]

I’m not sure where you’re going with this. I do support volunteers fighting Daesh. I think they’re brave and doing important work.
Back to my original point, the folk who fight in wars aren’t the same folk who make wars happen. It’s perfectly possible to advocate troops out and still have solidarity with the people caught in the aftermath.

So, you support certain volunteers, but I take it, not those fighting for Daesh? Also you think they're brave and doing important work? Really? Fighting and killing people in a country they have often never previously visited and have no connection to, in direct contravention of what they are being advised to do?

As I've pointed out before on this thread, the idea to lionise soldiers is a very deliberate ploy by the government. It allows the tacit cover up of things they do wrong, Marine A was caught on camera - bizarrely still a hero to many - but it is a near certainty many similar acts have been covered up.

The excellent Vietnam documentary by Ken Burns, currently on BBC, has American soldiers admitting they routinely executed captured Vietnamese soldiers. And that is what they are admitting to. At the time there was whistle blowers making horrendous rape allegations..

You could just say these are symptoms of war, but a poppy so support our military? No thanks, a white poppy to end this bloodshed seems far more appropriate.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Quite how anyone can "support the military" after the events of the past 15 years is beyond me.

I understand what you're saying, Juste. There have been some awful crimes committed during the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.... conflicts which in themselves were conspicuously criminal in the first place and for which those responsible have never been held to account. I'm completely with you on that one.

But that doesn't negate the - in my opinion - right and proper commemoration of those who gave their lives nobly and for the right reasons before that time. The men who fought and died in the world wars and even in more recent times in, say, the Falklands, can't be forgotten because of the actions of men like Corporal Payne or Marine Blackman who (also in my opinion) were not properly punished for their offences.

Hiram Johnson, a US Senator, once said "When war comes, the first casualty is the truth." I think he made a valid point. It's quite ironic that he died on 6 August 1945, the day America dropped the first atomic bomb, but that's beside the point.

We never fully know what the truth is... about who did what, or why, or who is responsible for whatever takes place and gets covered up in the fog of conflict. We have to try to sort out the facts from the lies and distortions and propaganda for ourselves and work out what we can and can't accept.

So, what DO we put our trust in..? That overwhelmingly, we're the good guys and in war, people die so get over it..? That's too simplistic for me. It allows too much latitude. "My country right or wrong" is not an acceptable justification for anything.

If I met Donald Payne or Alan Blackman face to face, I'd tell them that they disgraced their country, their regiment, their comrades and their families. Then I'd turn my back on them. I wouldn't waste any further words.

I think we all have to make up our own mind about remembrance and act accordingly. I know I feel comfortable about wearing the poppy in remembrance of my Grandfathers who I believe were good men who did their duty to their country. I'll take it no further than that.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

....and 1100hrs on Armistice Day.

One act of remembrance is enough. In my opinion.

 

[Leo]

You could just say these are symptoms of war, but a poppy so support our military? No thanks, a white poppy to end this bloodshed seems far more appropriate.

Go and tell your shit to this old fella.....No doubt you'd be more than proud to espouse your feelings about him wearing a poppy badge. Yeah, that's what you should do! The week prior to the 11th & up to I shall wear a red poppy with pride in remembrance & respect....you shall probably be spitting feathers!

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/97-year-old-war-veteran-13789542

 

[SALTIRE]

Go and tell your shit to this old fella.....No doubt you'd be more than proud to espouse your feelings about him wearing a poppy badge. Yeah, that's what you should do! The week prior to the 11th & up to I shall wear a red poppy with pride in remembrance & respect....you shall probably be spitting feathers!

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/97-year-old-war-veteran-13789542

Many vets didn't wear poppies in the past though Leo and some still don't bother what all the fuss is about, most of them it seems pay their respects on the day and that's enough, and I think some of them are rather embarassed by what this has all become.

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

One act of remembrance is enough. In my opinion.

In your opinion...

 

[Leo]

Many vets didn't wear poppies in the past though Leo and some still don't bother what all the fuss is about, most of them it seems pay their respects on the day and that's enough, and I think some of them are rather embarassed by what this has all become.

Salty, as I've said before I have absolutely no problem with anyone who doesn't wear a poppy....I bear no grudge against them whatsoever.....it is the individual's decision. Unfortunately the feeling is not reciprocated by some who believe it is a symbol of supporting war when it certainly is not.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

In your opinion...

Correct.

 

[Aber gas]

This doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of things..
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-minister-anna-soubry-claimed-5878478

 

[Abertawe]

My dog wears a poppy.

 

[Aber gas]

What do we think of Wetherspoon’s decision?
https://twitter.com/wetherspoon_uk/status/922399845633191938

 

[SALTIRE]

Doesn't bother me, the fact they tweeted it though suggests they don't want to offend anyone, those who'd be offended by them wearing poppies, and those who would be offended by them not, which comes across as weak; but so be it, its not a biggie.

Noticed on the telly they've been wheeled out en force.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Doesn't bother me, the fact they tweeted it though suggests they don't want to offend anyone, those who'd be offended by them wearing poppies, and those who would be offended by them not, which comes across as weak; but so be it, its not a biggie.

Noticed on the telly they've been wheeled out en force.

It's a spoof. Naughty Aber.

 

[Aber gas]

It's a spoof. Naughty Aber.

Oi, stop ruining my fun

 

[Aber gas]

Dear god make it stop.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

Wetherspoons aren't going to have any customers left at this rate.

British customers who believe the spoof tweet to be authentic are saying they aren't going to give their custom to the chain any more, and with all the Little Englander tub thumping of one of his punters with a couple of early morning Stellas inside him, Tim Martin, the owner of the Wetherspoons pub chain said he is ready to inflict "highly damaging" consequences on the European economy by refusing to serve European beers unless Michel Barnier agrees to tariff-free trade.

This alienation of Europeans who still live in Britain seems to be typical bluster from Mr Martin who recently wrote in the Wetherspoons magazine that "In the year since the Referendum the economy has created a stunning 300'000 more new jobs"

What he failed to mention was that in the previous year, BEFORE the Referendum the economy created an even more stunning 500'000 new jobs.

Make of that what you will.

In the meantime, we will watch with interest to see who Wetherspoons can manage to insult / offend / thumb their noses at next.

 

[Aber gas]

Look at this chief.

Loves a bit of poppy season.

 

[SALTIRE]

Crass and actually disrespectful (if it's not shopped Aber Gas!!).

 

[Aber gas]

How very dare you Salty! You know I have the technical ability of a gibbon .

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

Look at this chief.
View attachment 7369
Loves a bit of poppy season.

Looks like a beekeeping snowman who had a roll in Flanders Fields en route to the King Power.

 

[Cornish Piskie]

All this bloke needs now is Kevin Spacey walking up to him and plucking them off one by one as he recites "He loves me.... he loves me not...."

 

[Benji]

Wow, I can't even count the amount of respects he is wearing.

 

[Pleg]

not waring a poppy Thisyear

because i'm glad soldiers die

!

 

[AFCB_Mark]

Prime Minister of Rep of Ireland Leo Varadkar wears a poppy on a shamrock background, a 'shamrock poppy' design commissioned by the Irish branch of the Royal British Legion. It commemorates the many thousands of Irish soldiers who fought with the British Army in WWI 100 years ago (thousands also fought in WWII).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41910166