The Muslim Mega Thread

[Ebeneezer Goode]

You've lost me. In your mind, did you just make a point? Because the reason I can point to a common denominator in the Rotherham case is because we know something of the demographics involved. I know absolutely nothing about the demographics of all other child abusers in the country. How could I?

 

[Red]

They're criminals with a penchant for abusing kids is the common denominator. I suspected you'd have a problem understanding it when Islam is taken out of the equation. Nobody is denying that in the Rotherham and other cases it's perpetrated by Pakistani men, but that's more to do with their mis-understanding of their culture seeing as most Pakistani men aren't child abusers and are sickened by it like everyone else. My point is that predictably you're trying to crowbar Islam into all this when it's quite un necessary.

I like this 'in your mind' new debating technique you're cultivating - it's good.

 

[TheMinsterman]

Um... well it will be, if there is an overwhelming prorportion of child abusers from a particular religion or culture. Cuz you know, that's what a common denominator is. That's why we're having this discussion in the first place. I didn't invent a massive over-representation of Pakistani and Muslims assailants in this case, it's an undeniable fact that needs to be explained. How do you explain it?

I think personally I'd explain that with the evidence available, the "Pakistani" element is more pertinent than the "Muslim" part without evidence of similar patterns in other Islamic cultures, there is definitely evidence of a culture of abusing young boys in the public transport industry in Pakistan (see aforementioned documentary).

 

[Red]

No, it's definitely Islam and the Muslims. Right EG?

 

[Christian Slater]

There does exist a look the other way attitude within Muslim communities to these crimes. I worked on a big Indian restaurant for several months and got talking to a lot of the guys that ran it, they admitted there was a problem regarding under age sex but nobody wants to speak up in fear of being shunned.

What's always fascinating to me is these takeaway groupies you get, giving blow jobs for a free cheesy chips with mayo. I've never understood why that's a thing.

 

[JoeJoeJoeJoe]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...-can-be-the-lions-ill-be-daniel-10027844.html

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

They're criminals with a penchant for abusing kids is the common denominator. I suspected you'd have a problem understanding it when Islam is taken out of the equation. Nobody is denying that in the Rotherham and other cases it's perpetrated by Pakistani men, but that's more to do with their mis-understanding of their culture seeing as most Pakistani men aren't child abusers and are sickened by it like everyone else. My point is that predictably you're trying to crowbar Islam into all this when it's quite un necessary.

No, I'm not crowbarring anything into anywhere. The massive over-representation of Pakistanis/Muslims is real and needs to be explained. At no point have I, or anyone as far as I can tell, suggested that all Muslims or all Pakistanis are predisposed to under-age sex, only that their culture and/or religious scripture may allow for it to be justified depending on the interpretation, which you seem to be now accepting.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

"We don't want any Israeli goods, we don't want any Israeli services, we don't want any Israeli academics coming to the university or the college, we don't even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford."

That is pretty mental to be fair.

 

[TheMinsterman]

There does exist a look the other way attitude within Muslim communities to these crimes. I worked on a big Indian restaurant for several months and got talking to a lot of the guys that ran it, they admitted there was a problem regarding under age sex but nobody wants to speak up in fear of being shunned.

What's always fascinating to me is these takeaway groupies you get, giving blow jobs for a free cheesy chips with mayo. I've never understood why that's a thing.

I'd imagine, unfortunately, they prey on people who've either grown up in a cycle of abuse where they've learned to believe the only thing of value they have to "trade" so to speak is their body and sexuality, or they're simply very vulnerable and looking for affection and misguidedly see it as a way of attaining that without understanding the wide implications of the manipulation involved by these groups/individuals.

Indian restaurant specifically is interesting, it could be a regional cultural link perhaps?

 

[TheMinsterman]

"We don't want any Israeli goods, we don't want any Israeli services, we don't want any Israeli academics coming to the university or the college, we don't even want any Israeli tourists to come to Bradford."

That is pretty mental to be fair.

Fully agree with your sentiments.

 

[Christian Slater]

I'd imagine, unfortunately, they prey on people who've either grown up in a cycle of abuse where they've learned to believe the only thing of value they have to "trade" so to speak is their body and sexuality, or they're simply very vulnerable and looking for affection and misguidedly see it as a way of attaining that without understanding the wide implications of the manipulation involved by these groups/individuals.

Indian restaurant specifically is interesting, it could be a regional cultural link perhaps?

That's a pretty good take on it.

There aren't any groupies at that Indian, it's a proper restaurant. I remember going to a kebab house the other week and feeling intimidated by the 15 or so young girls hanging around outside it.

 

[Red]

No, I'm not crowbarring anything into anywhere. The massive over-representation of Pakistanis/Muslims is real and needs to be explained. At no point have I, or anyone as far as I can tell, suggested that all Muslims or all Pakistanis are predisposed to under-age sex, only that their culture and/or religious scripture may allow for it to be justified depending on the interpretation, which you seem to be now accepting.

How do you know it's a massive over representation of Pakistani men that are doing it? Please let us be privy to the statistics that an over representation of Pakistani men are child abusers. You'll also have the statistics of other cultural and ethnic groups to hand to compare them against yes? Isn't it that an over representation of Pakistani men are being highlighted in the media in comparison to other groups because they tend to do it in gangs?

When did I or anyone say that you suggested all Muslims or all Pakistanis are pre-disposed to under-age sex? I didn't say that, nor did anyone else. I'm baffled as to why you thought that. Their culture or religion doesn't allow it to be justified. They've mis-interpeted it if they think it is justified because the mass majority of of Pakistani people don't think it's acceptable. So really you are actually trying to crowbar Islam and being Pakistani into it. You're basing all your views on what is in the media. What about the internet paedophile rings that get rumbled by the police, here and in other parts of Europe? Are they overwhelmingly populated by Muslim or Pakistani men? What about all the abuse going on that is un-reported? I think you just saw this as an excuse to have another sideswipe at Islam to be honest.

And what the hell Galloway's comments, if that's who you were quoting, have to do with this?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

How do you know it's a massive over representation of Pakistani men that are doing it?

Because I'm assuming the police and media are not deliberately lying about this case. I haven't said a word about the country as a whole. Though with similar cases popping up in Oxford and London it wouldn't surprise me.

Their culture or religion doesn't allow it to be justified. They've mis-interpeted it if they think it is justified because the mass majority of of Pakistani people don't think it's acceptable.

That's a very odd approach to ideology, especially one that is set in stone in the form of revealed-knowledge scripture. The fact that one interpretation is more popular than another is neither here nor there. In fact, as we've established many times, most religious people cherry-pick the scripture and simply ignore the bits they don't like. Presumably most Pakistanis don't like the sex slave bits.

And what the hell Galloway's comments, if that's who you were quoting, have to do with this?

I was responding to JoeJoeJoeJoe.

 

[SUTSS]

Shots fired in Copenhagen at Cafe hosting a free speech debate attended by an artist who had depicted Mohammed.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Three police shot it sounds like.

 

[SUTSS]

One civilian killed.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Fucking hell that's scary to listen to.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 2m2 minutes ago
Carnival parade in Braunschweig, northern Germany, called off at short notice due to "threat of Islamist attack" http://bbc.in/1zEGDKR

 

[SUTSS]

2nd victim of the Copenhagen gunman was a Jewish man killed near the main synagogue. Brought it on himself though of course by provoking Islam be being Jewish.

 

[SUTSS]

Think this is a pretty good article on extremism and extremists. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...th-and-tragedy-unwavering-faith-10049972.html

 

[silkyman]

Good article. The old 'oh this has nothing to do with religion' cop out is incredibly frustrating, and serves only to give the community leaders of those religions as get out to not actually have to think about it, or DO anything. See also the reaction to the letter from the government which basically just said 'Hey, chaps... Think you might be able to help out here...'

 

[Christian Slater]

A lot of these community "leaders" keep their position by creating an us against them attitude, however subtly they do it.

 

[Womble98]

A mosque in America has had an arson attack. http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...ue-set-ablaze-responds-to-hate-with-love.html

 

[pontoonlew]

Saw a pretty odd article on the BBC today. Claiming just 68% of British Muslims surveyed condemned violence against people who depict the prophet Mohammed.

Startlingly low.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Though not unsurprising in my opinion. An NOP Research poll showed that 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons, and 62% said that freedom of speech should not be protected if it offends religious groups. You see similar numbers regarding people who are openly homosexual too. Some people simply don't want to hear it though.

 

[mnb089mnb]

I can't find links to either of those polls.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-british-muslims-put-islam-first/

 

[mnb089mnb]

I saw that when searching. I couldn't find the actual questions/results though.

The poll used by the BBC today is interesting (though Lew's stats seem like they've been made up rather than using actual results for some reason?), but I think it would be interesting to compare them against church-going Christians. I also think asking questions like "Should people who burn the British/English flag be punished" to a white Englishman would also come out with similarly batshit crazy results.

 

[Alty]

I saw that when searching. I couldn't find the actual questions/results though.

The poll used by the BBC today is interesting (though Lew's stats seem like they've been made up rather than using actual results for some reason?), but I think it would be interesting to compare them against church-going Christians. I also think asking questions like "Should people who burn the British/English flag be punished" to a white Englishman would also come out with similarly batshit crazy results.

I actually agree with Lew in that the Beeb reported the 68% figure in a rather generous way, but I think you're right on that point in bold there.

 

[pontoonlew]

But 'punished' wasn't the question in the poll. The BBC poll suggested violent repercussions, 68% is low on that sense.

What was encouraging is 93% believe they should abide by British laws. Though 11% sympathising with people fighting against the West isn't exactly encouraging.