Tues 25th/Sat 29th fixtures

[Chris FGR]

Tbf a lot of us on here got a bit too bullish, I had us up in 21st!

 

[White horse]

Yep, we didn't. I think I said we'd finish between 14th and 18th, so not a million miles off. My beef was teams saying that this league is so much better and the gulf is huge, which it hasn't been. The fact that we've stayed up with a league 2 squad says it all. With even moderate form since Christmas, we'd be top 10. We've even beaten some of those teams around the top with said league 2 squad. What's frustrating is that 90% of teams in this league are bang average but usually illuminated by a loan player or two, or the odd couple of permanent players.

So you were a top team in L2 who got promoted and now a team who will finish 18th in L1 but there is no huge gulf in the divisions. ? How does that work ?

 

[coronakopite]

Isn't that assistant now a Premier league ref?

Andy Madeley - That was never a penalty. He's been a Premier league Ref since 2019.

His older brother, Bobby Madeley, was a Prem ref from 2013-18, when he was quietly sacked for making a dodgy video.

 

[Bobbin']

So you were a top team in L2 who got promoted and now a team who will finish 18th in L1 but there is no huge gulf in the divisions. ? How does that work ?

Safety only confirmed on the penultimate weekend of the season too.

“If our form was better than it actually was, we’d have been top 10”. Brilliant.

 

[leedsvaliant]

So you were a top team in L2 who got promoted and now a team who will finish 18th in L1 but there is no huge gulf in the divisions. ? How does that work ?

It's not the huge gulf though is it? Realistically we've been relatively safe for a while barring the last couple of games where it got a bit twitchy. We've had at various points in the season, no fit strikers, no fit midfielders and no fit Central defenders and along with a league 2 squad, a manager with his head all over the place and virtually doing nothing (arguably weakening) the squad in January, we're still safe with a game to spare and haven't been close to the relegation spots all season. As I said, even with pretty average to poor form second half of the season, we finish top 10 in this incredible league. This is probably the main league where budget defines the positions the most as the top teams have probably got 3 or 4 players that can play higher.

The general standard however has been dreadful. I include ourselves in that. Not much better than league 2 bar the odd decent player here and there. The step up to the Championship is much more significant.

 

[leedsvaliant]

Safety only confirmed on the penultimate weekend of the season too.

“If our form was better than it actually was, we’d have been top 10”. Brilliant.

It's true though. We didn't even need to have scintillating form second half of the season...just literally get points off Accrington, Cambridge, Oxford, Burton etc. and we're pushing top 10 with essentially our league 2 team. For various mitigating reasons that didn't happen, but it's not down to the quality of the opposition every time.

Let's not overplay this, it's the 3rd division, the standard is generally poor, propped up with teams who have a drastically unfair advantage in terms of budget. Hopefully next year will be more even as there won't be as much stupid wages flying about. It's injuries more than anything we need to cover in future...never known so many long term sick notes in our squad.

 

[valefan16]

It’s not been as much of a gulf as I expected if I’m honest, last year you looked at the top 10/11 having well over 70 points and it looked daunting.

The only team that I’ve thought looked miles ahead is Ipswich and even then we gave them a real game twice.

Think we’ve only been doubled twice, by Ipswich, Wednesday and Peterborough so in the main have been competitive despite as mentioned injuries and various issues.

The general game play isn’t much ahead of league two but the main difference is the finishing being far more clinical and a few more teams have that one stellar man (usually a loanee), in league two last year for instance only really Bristol Rovers had that where a relatively average side can be dragged up by a stellar loan (Anderson).

So I agree with LeedsValiant in that the general play is much of a muchness, arguably in some cases fairly boring at times but the difference is the clinical edge, feels like every error is a goal against whereas you get away with a few in L2.

 

[leedsvaliant]

It’s not been as much of a gulf as I expected if I’m honest, last year you looked at the top 10/11 having well over 70 points and it looked daunting.

The only team that I’ve thought looked miles ahead is Ipswich and even then we gave them a real game twice.

Think we’ve only been doubled twice, by Ipswich, Wednesday and Peterborough so in the main have been competitive despite as mentioned injuries and various issues.

The general game play isn’t much ahead of league two but the main difference is the finishing being far more clinical and a few more teams have that one stellar man (usually a loanee), in league two last year for instance only really Bristol Rovers had that where a relatively average side can be dragged up by a stellar loan (Anderson).

So I agree with LeedsValiant in that the general play is much of a muchness, arguably in some cases fairly boring at times but the difference is the clinical edge, feels like every error is a goal against whereas you get away with a few in L2.

I think that's pretty much Bob on. The matches have actually been pretty dull on the whole but those with the bigger budgets inevitably have that one or two players that can nick a goal.

 

[Gassy]

Ifs and buts though. If only Vale had won a few more games we’d have been mid table… but you didn’t, because you weren’t good enough. If only you didn’t have such good form at the beginning of the season and drew a couple instead of winning, you’d have gone down.but you didn’t, because you were good enough.

Table doesn’t lie come the end of the season.

 

[Soz]

I just always find it odd when people challenge something they don’t know much about.

Ifs and buts though. If only Vale had won a few more games we’d have been mid table… but you didn’t, because you weren’t good enough. If only you didn’t have such good form at the beginning of the season and drew a couple instead of winning, you’d have gone down.but you didn’t, because you were good enough.

Table doesn’t lie come the end of the season.

Hmm quite a quick collapse there

This whole "vale fans said they'd be a playoff team" is complete bollocks. I reckon youll find 99% of us saying safety would be the main objective and a top half finish would be a great achievement. That might have changed at Christmas with us two points off the playoffs but with good reason. We weren't to know that we would go the whole of January without a fit striker.

We were being told that its nigh on impossible to compete at the top of this league without a ridiculous budget. We were joking that it sounded like some of the league one fans were describing the European superleague rather than league one. I've seen nothing to change my mind that this talk was silly.

History being rewritten a bit becausw bizarrely we are getting lumped in with one Exeter fan who was clearly on a wind up.

 

[denzel ecfc]

Hmm quite a quick collapse there

This whole "vale fans said they'd be a playoff team" is complete bollocks. I reckon youll find 99% of us saying safety would be the main objective and a top half finish would be a great achievement. That might have changed at Christmas with us two points off the playoffs but with good reason. We weren't to know that we would go the whole of January without a fit striker.

We were being told that its nigh on impossible to compete at the top of this league without a ridiculous budget. We were joking that it sounded like some of the league one fans were describing the European superleague rather than league one. I've seen nothing to change my mind that this talk was silly.

History being rewritten a bit becausw bizarrely we are getting lumped in with one Exeter fan who was clearly on a wind up.

Just ignore him

 

[Gassy]

Hmm quite a quick collapse there

Not really. I’m challenging Vale over 46 games are a top table team Vs when an Exeter fan watches 1 or 2 games and judges a whole style of play. If Vale are in fact better than their position states and should have been in the top 10, then feel free to correct me?

As for competing with the top teams, we can all do that over a few games. Over a season though it’s much more difficult, as all the promoted teams eventually proved.

 

[Gassy]

Just ignore him

Bit of a pathetic comment just because you got called out. Either discuss the point or move on, rather than your passive aggressive side comments.

 

[PlymouthCasual]

The one thing that I will not miss from the LG1 forum…..Port Vale fans.

Easily the most deluded, monotone supporters in this group. Fingers crossed that by the time we end up back in LG1 they will have been relegated to LG2

 

[Gassy]

The one thing that I will not miss from the LG1 forum…..Port Vale fans.

Easily the most deluded, monotone supporters in this group. Fingers crossed that by the time we end up back in LG1 they will have been relegated to LG2

How do you lot fancy your chances in the Champ? I get the feeling Ipswich could do a Sunderland but I have no idea on Argyle, if I remember correctly you have some well backed American owners?

 

[valefan16]

The one thing that I will not miss from the LG1 forum…..Port Vale fans.

Easily the most deluded, monotone supporters in this group. Fingers crossed that by the time we end up back in LG1 they will have been relegated to LG2

No sure there is any delusion, none of us have every said we expect to challenge the top end and not sure where that has come from, I have been taking stick for expecting relegation for weeks!

I called it in January when we were 9th that I felt the second half would be tougher and the top sides would pull away with their budgets (you've done excellently to do so without that advantage).

 

[valefan16]

Hmm quite a quick collapse there

This whole "vale fans said they'd be a playoff team" is complete bollocks. I reckon youll find 99% of us saying safety would be the main objective and a top half finish would be a great achievement. That might have changed at Christmas with us two points off the playoffs but with good reason. We weren't to know that we would go the whole of January without a fit striker.

We were being told that its nigh on impossible to compete at the top of this league without a ridiculous budget. We were joking that it sounded like some of the league one fans were describing the European superleague rather than league one. I've seen nothing to change my mind that this talk was silly.

History being rewritten a bit becausw bizarrely we are getting lumped in with one Exeter fan who was clearly on a wind up.

Dont tie us in with DevonLad certainly, we wouldn't be in League One with his views because we had "Zero chance" of beating Exeter which we needed to secure our Play Off spot!

 

[PlymouthCasual]

How do you lot fancy your chances in the Champ? I get the feeling Ipswich could do a Sunderland but I have no idea on Argyle, if I remember correctly you have some well backed American owners?

Weirdly we genuinely have no idea mate. The American consortium plus our chairman recently confirmed an 18m investment for a training complex so it looks as though they are willing to put their money where there mouth is to push the club forward.

The main question is will they want to invest in the playing budget as well as the assets of the club I suppose. Personally I cannot see the benefit in having all of these nice, new facilities and the team dropping aimlessly back into LG1 but what do I know.

Going to be a very interesting summer for sure

 

[Laker]

How do you lot fancy your chances in the Champ? I get the feeling Ipswich could do a Sunderland but I have no idea on Argyle, if I remember correctly you have some well backed American owners?

They could “do a Luton”. I think the key is hanging on to Schumacher who is getting a lot out of a very good squad.

 

[leedsvaliant]

The one thing that I will not miss from the LG1 forum…..Port Vale fans.

Easily the most deluded, monotone supporters in this group. Fingers crossed that by the time we end up back in LG1 they will have been relegated to LG2

I'll just reiterate what others have said...none of us expected to finish in the top half of the table. I don't expect to next season.

My beef was with people claiming how much more difficult league 1 was than league 2. Literally no point turning up against the top 10 teams was the intimation.

The standard of play is not much better than league 2, the major difference being the absurd budgets for this level enable certain teams to have 2 or 3 players to nick a goal.

 

[UppaTowen_ITFC]

I'll just reiterate what others have said...none of us expected to finish in the top half of the table. I don't expect to next season.

My beef was with people claiming how much more difficult league 1 was than league 2. Literally no point turning up against the top 10 teams was the intimation.

The standard of play is not much better than league 2, the major difference being the absurd budgets for this level enable certain teams to have 2 or 3 players to nick a goal.

At the start of the season you realise you were saying that budgets aren’t that important down in the third tier because clubs will never be able to sign championship calibre players in the third tier? I can get you your direct quotes if that would help jog your memory.

Here’s two you’ve said:
1) ‘How much certain teams are stupid enough to pay players that are not good enough for the Championship does not mean that they are worth that money. If they were good enough for a higher level, they could get 4 or 5 times that in the championship. Irrelevant of how much you throw at a player, there is still a ceiling on the quality because it's ultimately the 3rd tier. If they were really good they'd be playing in the championship or premier league. Of course, money makes a difference but it doesn't make the same difference at this level.’

2) ‘Yes, there's a gap in terms of budget but at this level it doesn't make as much of a difference. League one teams can still ultimately only attract a certain level of player. Same in league 2....teams like Salford, Bradford and Mansfield thrown loads of money at it but certainly in Salford's case they just throw players together and hope for the best. Even those with the biggest budget in this league will still need to have a canny manager and a decent ethos. For the bigger teams, if they start badly the pressure can quickly grow and before you know it they are out of the running.’

 

[leedsvaliant]

At the start of the season you realise you were saying that budgets aren’t that important down in the third tier because clubs will never be able to sign championship calibre players in the third tier? I can get you your direct quotes if that would help jog your memory.

Here’s two you’ve said:
1) ‘How much certain teams are stupid enough to pay players that are not good enough for the Championship does not mean that they are worth that money. If they were good enough for a higher level, they could get 4 or 5 times that in the championship. Irrelevant of how much you throw at a player, there is still a ceiling on the quality because it's ultimately the 3rd tier. If they were really good they'd be playing in the championship or premier league. Of course, money makes a difference but it doesn't make the same difference at this level.’

2) ‘Yes, there's a gap in terms of budget but at this level it doesn't make as much of a difference. League one teams can still ultimately only attract a certain level of player. Same in league 2....teams like Salford, Bradford and Mansfield thrown loads of money at it but certainly in Salford's case they just throw players together and hope for the best. Even those with the biggest budget in this league will still need to have a canny manager and a decent ethos. For the bigger teams, if they start badly the pressure can quickly grow and before you know it they are out of the running.’

I stand by all of that. Budget doesn't make as much of a difference at this level but it still does. But really only 2 or 3 players that can score when playing poorly, but many still not good enough to play higher. I can count on 1 hand the players who could play at the very top level.

Even the top teams in this league are made up with majority of bang average. But of course money makes a difference...some of the budgets in this league are downright unfair....as is the disparity in all leagues.

Ipswich and Plymouth had the best managers and the most canny ethos. Look at Wednesday, they should have stormed this league but a poor manager has let them down.

Thanks for doing the research to confirm my points though.

 

[UppaTowen_ITFC]

I stand by all of that. Budget doesn't make as much of a difference at this level but it still does. But really only 2 or 3 players that can score when playing poorly, but many still not good enough to play higher. I can count on 1 hand the players who could play at the very top level.

Even the top teams in this league are made up with majority of bang average. But of course money makes a difference...some of the budgets in this league are downright unfair....as is the disparity in all leagues.

Ipswich and Plymouth had the best managers and the most canny ethos. Look at Wednesday, they should have stormed this league but a poor manager has let them down.

Thanks for doing the research to confirm my points though.

But on one hand you’re saying that budget doesn’t make much difference and the next saying that we should walk the league with our budget? Surely it’s one or the other is it not?

 

[White horse]

He keeps contradicting himself, how have you confirmed his point btw when you have categorically showed how weak and daft his argument was in the first place. Just accept his view that budget makes absolutely no difference at this level but however having a bigger budget enables you to have 2 or 3 player who will nick a goal. And therefore win the game

 

[kieran_vale]

Almost certainly down to a complete lack of interest on my part on all of this “debate” if you can call it that but I’m not even sure of what the point of any of this is?

 

[valefan16]

Almost certainly down to a complete lack of interest on my part on all of this “debate” if you can call it that but I’m not even sure of what the point of any of this is?

Yeah I am losing track a little,

Team with by far the biggest budget has won promotion, likely the second biggest by some way is third, other large clubs for this league are around the top 6-7 as per most leagues £££ talk. Plymouth deserve huge credit for being the cat amongst the pigeons.

Two likely smallest budgets are likely to be relegated come the weekend (Accy and Morecambe) as per most leagues £££ talk.

League One is better than League Two largely down to a couple of "Game changers" and better strikers. Championship is better than League One due to further incremental improvements in teams and so on.

Vale are where they are because we deserve to be, mixed down to injuries (poor recruitment decisions), management (our own fault) and an awful January window where we totally gambled (Bad decisions) a slow summer recruitment and pre season (bad decisions).

No Vale fan predicted promotion/play offs that I have seen.

DevonLad makes various wild predictions and probably believes Exeter will be in the Premier League soon! That said I had a mate who used to bang on about Leicester being Champions League in "5 years" and we took the micky out of him... 4 years on they won the Premier League and obviously the 5th year they were in it! so you never know I guess!

 

[Soz]

really not sure what this anti-vale fan thing is all about but it's pretty funny.

its just correct that budget = advantage but no guarantee. sunderland struggled to get out of the league with a massive budget. luton are more than competing in the championship over multiple years with much lower budget than others at the top. sheff wed have ballsed it up a couple of times now despite their budget meaning autos is the aim. accrington and morecambe have survived until now on shoestrings. burton spent a few years in the championship. derby have the budget to go and sign the likes of mcgolderick in league one but could possibly miss out on the playoffs. leicester winning the prem. chelsea spenidng 600m but being bottom half. Wrexham failing last year and going toe to toe with notts county this one, salford stagnating so far in league 2 despite ridiculous signing. newcastle third despite a *relatively* modest spend for a champions league spot. theres examples in every league every season of the rule being broken.
you don't need a saudi takeover to make the playoffs in league one, but a saudi takeover would help. I don't know what is controversial about that

we competed for the playoff places for half the season and then were pretty much bottom of the table form for the second half. that's not budget related is it? our budget didn't drastically change from top 10 to bottom 2-3 in January. tht's the point. even the argument that our league table position is not a lie because its likely around where our budget it is a stretch because we've seen two complete extremes in terms of form.

apparently it's some sort of arrogance on our part to point this out despite I think almost every single vale fan (if not every single one) saying that survival is the aim, mid table achievable and top half would be fantastic. and despite our wretched form and relegation battle supposedly proving how wrong we were, we're the closest we've ever been to the bottom 4 currently (not including the first month or so of the season obviously) but we've only got within 5 points of the bottom 4 at the same time we become mathematically safe.

 

[Gassy]

I think the point I (and potentially others) are confused at is you say it’s not that much better here, but you’ve gone from top 6 to bottom 6 - that doesn’t make sense without a bit of deeper analysis, it’s too general.

You say you’ve competed for play offs (debatable) and used that as a measure to say how you can compete, the bad form has more been written off as not a true value of your team/form/standard of the league, but the reality is it works both ways. In the same way as us, your poor form equally defines your season and the standard as the good form. Which is why we both are where we are.

Vale complained a lot about injuries last season, we had loads and have had loads as well this season - it’s football. It’s why teams like us, right now at least, have the players we do because if our best players weren’t injury prone, they wouldn’t be playing for us.

We can all compete with top teams for a time being, but the real quality shows over 46 games, not 15, 20 or 30. As Exeter, Vale and ourselves have all proven. It’s having the quality of players to consistently produce week after week, and not rely on form, that makes the difference in any division.

 

[valefan16]

I think the point I (and potentially others) are confused at is you say it’s not that much better here, but you’ve gone from top 6 to bottom 6 - that doesn’t make sense without a bit of deeper analysis, it’s too general.

You say you’ve competed for play offs (debatable) and used that as a measure to say how you can compete, the bad form has more been written off as not a true value of your team/form/standard of the league, but the reality is it works both ways. In the same way as us, your poor form equally defines your season and the standard as the good form. Which is why we both are where we are.

Vale complained a lot about injuries last season, we had loads and have had loads as well this season - it’s football. It’s why teams like us, right now at least, have the players we do because if our best players weren’t injury prone, they wouldn’t be playing for us.

We can all compete with top teams for a time being, but the real quality shows over 46 games, not 15, 20 or 30. As Exeter, Vale and ourselves have all proven. It’s having the quality of players to consistently produce week after week, and not rely on form, that makes the difference in any division.

Agree, ultimate any realistic fan of Exeter, Vale or Rovers would say staying up is the main initial goal this season, all have achieved it and no surprise will finish likely within 3-6 points of each other, all rode the wave of promotion and then as the deep winter set in and bigger clubs used spending power in January its become a right old slog.

Now all three will look to improve next season further, learn from this and certainly my aim for next season is to be more comfortable than this, 12-15th would be ok with us safe by the end of March and be solid progress.

That relies on getting rid of some of the players who haven't stepped up to this level and replacing them with better quality, we have big decisions to make on the injury prone players like Wilson but for example if Wilson wasn't injury prone he wouldn't be at Port Vale and would be arguably at a much higher level so its swings and roundabouts.

 

[DippyDon]

Congratulations to Vale for staying up.

Thanks to Barnsley for waking up and saving Vale as well as putting our fate firmly in our own hands.

Just need Burton to do their job (fine chance) and make our final day more relaxing than the nervous shit show I know it's going to be. Don't care if it's dodgy ref and lino decisions (like 15 years ago) or an honourable own goal but Fake Dons have to go down. Apologies DippyDon

It's going to happen. No matter if Burton win tonight by some miracle we just simply haven't got the quality over 90 minutes to do our own job. For 20 minutes on Saturday it looked like we maybe had done it, but if we can't defend a 3 goal lead then we have no hope.