UFC thread

[Renegade]

Looks like Holloway is way off making weight and the main event isn't happening either...what a disastrous week for the UFC.

 

[Fompous Part]

Holloway out now too, according to Helwani. Sounds like he was struggling with the weight cut and the doctors intervened.

Main event scuppered twice and three undercard fights cancelled, all before the official weigh-in. Must be a record.

On the plus side, my UFC 223 or NXT Takeover dilemma for Saturday night no longer exists.

 

[shane]

I reckon it was a publicity stunt gone wrong. Yes, they have a legitimate feud with Khabib's team because of previous altercations and the Lobov stuff earlier in the week, but I doubt he intended to actually injure the people in the bus. If they had this skirmish and no one was injured, it would have been a slap on the wrist and great promotional material for McGregor vs Khabib, which seemed inevitable before yesterday.

He's an absolute moron though, the power has gone to his head since the Mayweather fight. Chiesa and Borg fights off the card and several assault charges coming his way. It will be interesting to see how Dana White handles this. With any other fighter, they would be cut from the promotion and suspended for at least a year from competition. However, if he cuts McGregor he will lose potentially 100s of millions for the UFC and either a rival promotion (Bellator) or boxing will take his contract up when he serves his suspension. If he doesn't cut him, he will look like he's giving him the ultimate favourable treatment, which is already a criticism lobbied at White.

Would any fighter (especially Conor) consider leaving UFC for Bellator though? Is the money in any way comparable? Genuine question. I've wondered for ages why Michael Page doesn't move to UFC.

 

[Fompous Part]

A fighter's pay will be roughly proportional to how well they draw on PPV, and Conor is basically in a league of his own in that respect.

Any PPV Conor competes on is likely to draw at least 1.5m buys. Price the PPV at $50 and that's $75m of revenue from PPV sales alone. Then add corporate sponsorship, gate receipts on the night, etc.

None of it would be possible without Conor; ergo, the promotion will pay him a small fortune to secure his appearance. He will make millions regardless of what promotion he's on.

 

[Renegade]

Would any fighter (especially Conor) consider leaving UFC for Bellator though? Is the money in any way comparable? Genuine question. I've wondered for ages why Michael Page doesn't move to UFC.

The only reason to fight for Bellator is the money, a bunch of UFC fighters have moved across because they get paid more per fight and they also get to advertise their own sponsors on their attire instead of Reebok and Monster energy drink. Conor doesn't need a promotion anyway, he will bring the viewers with his celebrity. 2 million would buy a PPV to see Conor fight a lamp post.

If Conor decided to fight for Bellator for the additional promotion and to spite the UFC, he could earn a competitor a shit tonne of money. It's something Dana White can't really afford to risk, he is their biggest sell and they need to make a lot of money after the $4 billion takeover last year.

If he happened to be cut, I think it's more likely he would just stick to boxing to be honest. There is far more money in it and it's less taxing on the body. He could make 10s of millions fighting retired boxers instead of MMA prospects that might choke him out.

 

[shane]

Don't get me wrong, I understand that its Connor McGregor that the vast majority of the buys are for on a night he is fighting but doesn't the UFC "package" contributes to the numbers also...? I would guess a UFC undercard is far superior to a Bellator undercard....?

 

[El Guapo]

They are trying to get Anthony Pettis in to fight Khabib. What a shit show this card has turned into.

 

[Fompous Part]

I understand that it's Conor McGregor that the vast majority of the buys are for on a night he is fighting, but doesn't the UFC "package" contributes to the numbers also?

If PPV buy rate numbers are any indication, people are drawn more by individual star power than by the top-to-bottom quality of a card.

The two best selling PPVs in UFC history are UFC 196 and UFC 202, which drew 1.3m and 1.6m buys respectively. Neither show had a particularly strong undercard. The McGregor vs. Diaz fights drew all the money.

Conor is one of only a handful of MMA fighters in history whose mere inclusion can push a buy rate over 1m. Rousey was probably capable of that toward the end of her MMA career. Brock probably was too. GSP can usually push it somewhere into the 750K to 1m range. In lieu of someone like that, though, it's hard to push a buy rate over 300K, even when the card is stacked with intriguing fights.

Add Conor to a MMA card (any card) and he'll probably increase the PPV revenue by about $50m. Doesn't matter what's on the undercard. The co-main event could be me and Abertawe arguing about politics through the medium of interpretative dance; it wouldn't make a jot of difference.

P.S. They still haven't established a main event for UFC 223. Latest speculation is Iaquinta vs. Nurmagomedov.

 

[Renegade]

Don't get me wrong, I understand that its Connor McGregor that the vast majority of the buys are for on a night he is fighting but doesn't the UFC "package" contributes to the numbers also...? I would guess a UFC undercard is far superior to a Bellator undercard....?

McGregor would turn a 300,000 buys PPV into a 2/3 million PPV buys now easily after the Mayweather fight. He was a big reason the company was sold for as much as it was. They need to make money off the casual fans of the sport, only the hardcore genuinely care about the undercard. The UFC is a far superior level of fighting to Bellator, but Bellator still pays fighters good money and more importantly, allows them to promote their own sponsors. Dana is wary of them poaching talent. If a McGregor ever did make the move (he can do what he wants), the UFC would lose even more talent. Dana won't fire him, because it will really hurt them financially.

Two examples of top class fighters that have moved from the UFC to Bellator for financial reasons. There are a heap more:

http://mmajunkie.com/2017/04/ryan-b...times-more-in-sponsorship-money-with-bellator
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2017/7/13/15963130/ufc-gegard-mousasi-middleweight-bellator-mma-news

 

[Renegade]

Out of all of the options - Pettis, Felder or Iaquinta, I think Iaquinta deserves the fight. The UFC hates him because he's spoken out numerous times against their low pay, he's not in it for the "right" reasons and would probably retire if he was given a title fight. However, he's on a 4 fight winning streak, has far better credentials than Felder and has outperformed Pettis over the past two years too. Pettis's biggest weakness is being taken down, Khabib would have him mounted within 20 seconds. I like Raging Al too, he takes no bullshit and would be nice to see him get a title fight on a home card. Make it happen Dana, you massive twat.

 

[Fompous Part]

^ Yep, I agree. I think my 66-year-old mother juiced up on two cans of Red Bull could take down Pettis, so Khabib would massacre him. Iaquinta is a better match-up.

Apparently one of the stumbling blocks is Khabib will only fight for the title and Iaquinta needs to be 155.0 lbs (or less) to qualify for a title fight. Earlier in the day he weighed in at 155.2 lbs and now it might be too late for him to weigh in again.

Also been reported that the NYSAC have concerns about Iaquinta not being high enough in UFC's totally pulled-from-out-their-arse rankings.

Couldn't make this shit up...

 

[Renegade]

Seems a bit of an arbitrary reason to stop a potential title fight and isn't consistent across states. TJ Dillashaw was a replacement when he beat Barao for the bantamweight title whilst ranked lower than Iaquinta currently is and then in his very next fight fought a replacement Joe Soto for the title, who wasn't ranked at all...

They need to have these rules (especially the in octagon rules) the same across the board, it's a bit farcical. I appreciate New York is new to this game.

 

[G.B]

what a shit show this is.

 

[shane]

A fighter's pay will be roughly proportional to how well they draw on PPV, and Conor is basically in a league of his own in that respect.

Any PPV Conor competes on is likely to draw at least 1.5m buys. Price the PPV at $50 and that's $75m of revenue from PPV sales alone. Then add corporate sponsorship, gate receipts on the night, etc.

None of it would be possible without Conor; ergo, the promotion will pay him a small fortune to secure his appearance. He will make millions regardless of what promotion he's on.

The only reason to fight for Bellator is the money, a bunch of UFC fighters have moved across because they get paid more per fight and they also get to advertise their own sponsors on their attire instead of Reebok and Monster energy drink. Conor doesn't need a promotion anyway, he will bring the viewers with his celebrity. 2 million would buy a PPV to see Conor fight a lamp post.

If Conor decided to fight for Bellator for the additional promotion and to spite the UFC, he could earn a competitor a shit tonne of money. It's something Dana White can't really afford to risk, he is their biggest sell and they need to make a lot of money after the $4 billion takeover last year.

If he happened to be cut, I think it's more likely he would just stick to boxing to be honest. There is far more money in it and it's less taxing on the body. He could make 10s of millions fighting retired boxers instead of MMA prospects that might choke him out.

All makes sense. Thanks.

Following both your points, why wouldn’t Connor engineer a move to Bellator? They would presumably offer silly money in order to get their name up there with UFC and Conor would stand to double/treble his intake on the night if allowed to use his own sponsors...?

Is there a prestige to fighting in the UFC? What allows them to basically “rob” the fighters (low purses, limited sponsorship potential etc).... Why isn’t everyone going across to Bellator given what you;ve both said above?

 

[Abertawe]

Iaquinta to win to top off a week of mentalness

 

[Renegade]

All makes sense. Thanks.

Following both your points, why wouldn’t Connor engineer a move to Bellator? They would presumably offer silly money in order to get their name up there with UFC and Conor would stand to double/treble his intake on the night if allowed to use his own sponsors...?

Is there a prestige to fighting in the UFC? What allows them to basically “rob” the fighters (low purses, limited sponsorship potential etc).... Why isn’t everyone going across to Bellator given what you;ve both said above?

Well, the UFC are still the established promotion with the best fighters in the world. If you want to fight for sport rather than money, it's hard to legitimately claim you're the best fighter in the world unless you hold a UFC strap. Just over a decade ago, fighters in Pride FC could legitimately claim to be as good if not better than those in the UFC, but Bellator simply isn't near that level yet. On top of the sporting element the UFC has the most exposure, a TV deal with a major sports network (Fox Sports) and the best promoter in the MMA world in Dana White. So yeah, all of these factor contribute to fighters wanting to fight for the UFC. Bellator is still a new name and whilst a fun organisation, the level of competition is significantly lower and it's on Spike TV. At the moment it only has a hardcore MMA fanbase, but it does offer financial incentives to join their organisation if fighters are that way inclined.

As for Conor, he is a bit of a special case. I put the name Bellator out there more as a brainstorming thing, it's incredibly unlikely to happen, but Conor is a pretty capricious character and I wouldn't put it past him to spite the UFC if he ended up being fired. He doesn't need a promotion, he actually would prefer to be his own promoter as he wouldn't need to share the spoils with someone and he already had "McGregor Promotions" set up for the Mayweather fight so I think he'd like to have that independent from the UFC. As I said in the last post, it's more likely he would just become a professional boxer.

EDIT: I just realised Fompous Part is Captain Scumbag. Boy, I'm slow. A belated welcome back.

 

[Fompous Part]

Well, at least Punk won his court case.

 

[G.B]

BIG card next weekend. Cormier arguably the GOAT if he wins his fight.

 

[Fompous Part]

Not a huge box office fight, but Garbrandt vs. Dillashaw 2 was No. 2 on my list of most anticipated fights this year (second only to Khabib vs. Tony), so really looking forward to tonight's event.

Conor vs. Khabib booked for UFC229 on 6th October. Poirier vs. Diaz booked for UFC230 at the Garden on 3rd November. Huge Q4 in the lightweight division.

 

[Renegade]

Apart from match ups in the lightweight division, there is no fight I want to see more than Dillashaw vs Mighty Mouse. I'm hoping that both have clinical wins tonight and this incentivises the UFC to pay Johnson the requisite amount to make that fight. Sadly, I don't think he'll ever be enough of a draw, so it will likely remain a pipe dream. That said, Dillashaw vs Garbrant is a coin-flip, tonight's main event could just as easily set up a trilogy fight.

 

[Fompous Part]

I had 48-47 to DJ on my scorecard, but I definitely belong to the ‘don’t score takedowns that highly if they lead to no significant damage’ school of armchair judging, so Cejudo getting the split was no great shock. DJ losing sucks because he has a reason to stay at flyweight now. I think if he’d won the next step would have been to book a superfight with a top bantamweight like TJ or Cruz.

Probably getting a TJ vs. Crux rematch at bantamweight, and a DJ vs. Cejudo rematch at flyweight. Could end up being two great fights, but not exactly what I was hoping for.

 

[Renegade]

Yeah, pretty disappointed about DJ, it was super close but it feels a bit hollow for a historic streak to end on a split decision. Cejudo did nothing with his takedowns and neither fighter absorbed too much significant damage, I think they have to run it back. If DJ doesn't get a rematch after 11 title defences, it is farcical, though maybe he wants some time off. I have no urge to see Dillashaw vs Cejudo, defend your title first.

On Dillashaw, he might be my favourite fighter to watch, the way he effortlessly switches stances and his feints are second to none, I think he will be the champion for a while. He has improved a lot since Cruz barely beat him, I can't see Cruz beating him again after his loss to Garbrant and more time off with injuries.

I can't believe I lost this bet.

 

[Fompous Part]

Ah, TFW when the most ‘money in the bank’ pick on your accumulator is the one that lets you down. Reminds me of when Thug Rose lost me £300 by having the temerity to beat Joanna. Always a massive kick in the plums.

Only thing worse is when the coupon buster is a fight your guy/gal loses from a seemingly ‘unlosable’ position. I went 7 for 8 at UFC 209 on an accumulator that would have won me approx. £800. The one that went wrong? Bektić being knocked out by Darren Elkins after wiping the floor with him for two-and-half rounds. Brilliant fight but I’ll never forgive the Bosnian git for blowing that one.

Don't bet on MMA, folks!

P.S. I don't think Cruz beat Dillashaw in their first fight. I share your view about a possible rematch and I'm less than chuffed with the idea of Cruz getting a title shot after almost two years of inactivity. Just can't see another title fight at bantamweight right now, though.

 

[Stagat]

Love Theo's breakdown of the Alvarez Poirier fight

 

[shane]

Thoughts on Conor vs Khabib?

 

[Renegade]

Khabib by wrestlefuck. If Conor doesn't knock him out in the first couple of minutes, I think he's going to get battered. If anyone has a chance to stop Khabib it probably is McGregor, though I think he'll rightly go into it as a reasonably heavy underdog among fight fans.

 

[Fompous Part]

Normally when a fighter is undefeated and is dominant to the point of looking unbeatable (e.g. Tyson before the Douglas fight, Rousey before the Holm fight, etc.) I keep betting on them until someone shows they are beatable. For that reason alone I should pick Khabib.

But this is a really tough one.

No one doubts that Conor will be brutalised if Khabib can repeatedly take the fight to the ground. But if that’s a big if, IMO. Conor’s takedown defence was surprisingly good against Diaz (second fight), his movement is excellent and he’ll have spent a whole training camp studying tape and working out ways to catch Khabib coming in.

None of that would matter much if Conor was just a very good striker like Johnson, Barboza or dos Anjos, all of whom were rag-dolled by Khabib. But there’s genuine one-shot KO power in that left hand – a kind that Khabib is untested against. A lot has been written about Khabib being a stylistic match-up nightmare for Conor, but the same is true in reverse. The worst type of opponent for Khabib is a fast, elusive, brilliant striker with the ability to lay him out before he gets the chance to grapple.

I’d be as well flipping a coin, but I think Conor finishes him in R1 or R2.

P.S. It’s a pity this isn’t happening in Russia. I wanted a mad MMA version of Rocky 4.

 

[Fompous Part]

Poor showing by Till. Did eff all in the first round. Looked to step it up in the second but got caught coming in almost immediately, and from that point it was pretty much game over.

Very impressed by Woodley's poise throughout that 2-3 minute phase where he transitioned from the ground and pound into the D'Arce choke. Hopefully some people will get past this 'Woodley is boring' bollocks (which was never based on more than one turd of a fight with Maia) and give the bloke the respect he deserves. He's an excellent champion.

Woodley vs. Colby should be a lotta fun.

 

[G.B]

Cracking fights tonight. I really want Lewis to get a title shot after DC steps down just for the funnies. Technically he's awful, and his cardio is laughable, but that right hand is nuts. Looking forward to seeing him on JRE.

Ferguson vs Pettis was on it's way to fight of the year for me, shame the way it ended but it's good to see corners protect their fighters for a change. Well done Duke Roufus. And Conor vs Khabib went pretty much as I expected with the dry humping, thought Conor would show a little more urgency when they were standing though, even if he is primarily a counter puncher.

P.S. It’s a pity this isn’t happening in Russia. I wanted a mad MMA version of Rocky 4.

Fucking good job it wasn't given the nonsense after the fight.

 

[Fompous Part]

Fucking good job it wasn't given the nonsense after the fight.

Rematch in Dagestan. What's the worst that could happen?