UKIP Thread

[Pilgrim Meister]

It wouldn't be right if there wasn't one.

So, UKIP were campaigning in Thanet today (Farage deperate to win that seat)

I await the headlines of him eating a fruitcake in the papers tomorrow.........

 

[SUTSS]

The early polls suggest it is going to be pretty neck and neck but a huge amount of time between now and the election. I can imagine the conservatives will be desperate to win it as well as what better way to strike back at UKIP. It will be interesting to see Labour's approach to this. Do they attack it and hope UKIP split the Tory vote and allow Labour to nick in? Or, do they not put any effort in in the belief that this will aid UKIP and block the conservatives?

 

[Pilgrim Meister]

The early polls suggest it is going to be pretty neck and neck but a huge amount of time between now and the election. I can imagine the conservatives will be desperate to win it as well as what better way to strike back at UKIP. It will be interesting to see Labour's approach to this. Do they attack it and hope UKIP split the Tory vote and allow Labour to nick in? Or, do they not put any effort in in the belief that this will aid UKIP and block the conservatives?

I suspect the latter. They pretty much know that putting resources in there would be a waste of time, and also they are banking on UKIP splitting the Tory Vote. If Labour put their resources into their Heartlands, they are more likely to get into power

 

[SUTSS]

I think the Conservatives have gone wrong with their candidate choice. Craig Mackinley is more UKIP than UKIP and will struggle to bring centrist voters to his side. Why vote Conservative to keep UKIP out if the Conservatives will just ape UKIP?

 

[Alty]

I think the Conservatives have gone wrong with their candidate choice. Craig Mackinley is more UKIP than UKIP and will struggle to bring centrist voters to his side. Why vote Conservative to keep UKIP out if the Conservatives will just ape UKIP?

The Tories have got themselves in a mess in combating UKIP. They began by dismissing them as mad xenophobes, then when they realised UKIP were quite popular, tried to fight them on their own turf. A ridiculous move because they'll only ever be seen as UKIP Lite. If they'd wanted to mollify those considering UKIP they should have acknowledged the legitimate grievances people had about immigration, sovereignty and the ECJ and presented a counter-argument. Instead they arrogantly dismissed them only to do an about turn when the polls indicated they were struggling. Frankly it's embarrassing. For all his faults I genuinely think Miliband is probably a better politician than Cameron.

 

[Christian Slater]

What I love about Farage is he's managed to get the working class to believe he's their champion, and he's a private school boy. It just shows how far speaking with conviction goes, no matter the message. Politicians are moulded by focus groups and are too scared to say anything that might cause their approval rating to drop slightly. It's pretty grim that we're at a stage where politicians are sculpted by a team that tell them what to wear, what to say and how to say it. That's why people will get behind someone that stands out from the Manchurian candidates.

 

[Alty]

What I love about Farage is he's managed to get the working class to believe he's their champion, and he's a private school boy. It just shows how far speaking with conviction goes, no matter the message. Politicians are moulded by focus groups and are too scared to say anything that might cause their approval rating to drop slightly. It's pretty grim that we're at a stage where politicians are sculpted by a team that tell them what to wear, what to say and how to say it. That's why people will get behind someone that stands out from the Manchurian candidates.

TBF most people thought Tony Benn was a champion of the working classes and it's not like he was a miner's son.

Completely agree with the second half of your post.

 

[HertsWolf]

I didn't see this thread when I asked what people thought of Al Murray standing in Thanet South in the GE thread.

fwiw (and that really isn't a lot) it's interesting to see the reaction to UKIP by other parties over the last few years. Around 1 in every 6 adults in this country has now suggested they will vote for UKIP, and still the main parties prefer to continue to demonise Farage and his party. As the numbers have grown, many - especially on the left - have even taken to demonising people who might vote for them. So instead of trying to win back or win or over the new UKIP voters, Labour, the LibDems and the Tories prefer to slag them off.
Personally, I like Al Murray - and his pub landlord persona - but if he is trying to damage Farage's prospects, I wonder if he is doing the right thing by standing against him? Surely it would make a lot more sense to **support** him? Funnily enough, UKIP has got the attention of 1 in 6 voters because what they say and promise appeals to those people - and probably many others who are thinking of voting UKIP. If some London comedian pops up, mocking issues about which many voters are fearful, concerned or angry, there is a risk many will feel insulted?

I reckon Al Murray will eventually broadcast that he is going to join UKIP and campaign for them. IMHO, that will do more damage to Mine's a Pint than standing against him.

 

[silkyman]

I see Farage has been lying about the level of support shown yesterday, while also reminding people that he wants to kill the NHS.

 

[SUTSS]

I didn't see this thread when I asked what people thought of Al Murray standing in Thanet South in the GE thread.

fwiw (and that really isn't a lot) it's interesting to see the reaction to UKIP by other parties over the last few years. Around 1 in every 6 adults in this country has now suggested they will vote for UKIP, and still the main parties prefer to continue to demonise Farage and his party. As the numbers have grown, many - especially on the left - have even taken to demonising people who might vote for them. So instead of trying to win back or win or over the new UKIP voters, Labour, the LibDems and the Tories prefer to slag them off.
Personally, I like Al Murray - and his pub landlord persona - but if he is trying to damage Farage's prospects, I wonder if he is doing the right thing by standing against him? Surely it would make a lot more sense to **support** him? Funnily enough, UKIP has got the attention of 1 in 6 voters because what they say and promise appeals to those people - and probably many others who are thinking of voting UKIP. If some London comedian pops up, mocking issues about which many voters are fearful, concerned or angry, there is a risk many will feel insulted?

I reckon Al Murray will eventually broadcast that he is going to join UKIP and campaign for them. IMHO, that will do more damage to Mine's a Pint than standing against him.

This has been one of my biggest gripes with the main parties attitude toward UKIP. The Conservatives are trying to say vote for us to keep UKIP out but fielding characters who are more UKIP than UKIP. No one has stood up and made the positive case for immigration, of which there is one to be made. Instead we have had an attitude which is just 'UKIP voters are bigots and not intelligent enough to understand reasoned argument so we won't even bother. It is this sort of attitude that has helped alienate the main parties from the general public.

Why would Al Murray ever join UKIP? I don't understand your reasoning there at all.

 

[HertsWolf]

This has been one of my biggest gripes with the main parties attitude toward UKIP. The Conservatives are trying to say vote for us to keep UKIP out but fielding characters who are more UKIP than UKIP. No one has stood up and made the positive case for immigration, of which there is one to be made. Instead we have had an attitude which is just 'UKIP voters are bigots and not intelligent enough to understand reasoned argument so we won't even bother. It is this sort of attitude that has helped alienate the main parties from the general public.

Why would Al Murray ever join UKIP? I don't understand your reasoning there at all.

On the Al Murray bit, it makes more sense for someone nutty (i.e. the Pub Landlord) to pretend to be "one of the faithful". That would tend to draw attention to some of the UKIP absurdity.

I agree about the overwhelming attitude that "UKIP voters are bigoted and not intelligent". But whoever wants to win a election needs to win over those voters, not alienate them.

The problem is that many (especially those under 35) are utterly convinced that politics is broke and really messed up, and instead of responding to it, the big parties provide 'more of the same' and characterise UKIP as fascists and chavs. It's very easy to laugh and mock smaller parties and their supporters (Tories and Labour have been doing it for years to both Lib Dems and now UKIP) but politics is reinventing itself. People are listening to those who (profess to) break the mould....Farage, Russell Brand, even George Galloway.

 

[HertsWolf]

I meant to add that political parties and especially the Conservatives seem to be dominated by older, establishment figures. James Arbuthnot, Tory MP for NE Hampshire, has "come out" as an atheist and says that there is pressure from an older generation to be religious. Part of the problem for Labour and the Tories is that UKIP, the Greens, even the LibDems don't easily fit into the traditional left v right context. It absolutely doesn't matter to anyone, but Labour and Conservatives want you to believe that it does. It's particularly obvious in local level politics, where independent councillors are particularly disliked because they focus on what people want locally rather than national party dogma. These new parties and independents are seen to be crashing the party.

 

[SUTSS]

On the Al Murray bit, it makes more sense for someone nutty (i.e. the Pub Landlord) to pretend to be "one of the faithful". That would tend to draw attention to some of the UKIP absurdity.

I agree about the overwhelming attitude that "UKIP voters are bigoted and not intelligent". But whoever wants to win a election needs to win over those voters, not alienate them.

The problem is that many (especially those under 35) are utterly convinced that politics is broke and really messed up, and instead of responding to it, the big parties provide 'more of the same' and characterise UKIP as fascists and chavs. It's very easy to laugh and mock smaller parties and their supporters (Tories and Labour have been doing it for years to both Lib Dems and now UKIP) but politics is reinventing itself. People are listening to those who (profess to) break the mould....Farage, Russell Brand, even George Galloway.

I get what you're saying on Al Murray now. Misunderstood you at first, sorry.

If we have politics dominated by Farage, Brand and Galloway then we really will be fucked.

 

[HertsWolf]

I get what you're saying on Al Murray now. Misunderstood you at first, sorry.

If we have politics dominated by Farage, Brand and Galloway then we really will be fucked.

I believe that we already do have politics dominated by them because they are talking to the common denominator. Arguably all are politicians exploiting (but addressing) collective fears of society. Meanwhile, the main parties are not addressing any of it other than with very, very, very smooth, slick sound-bites. No matter we're fucked, at least it will look good on TV.

 

[Conker]

What I love about Farage is he's managed to get the working class to believe he's their champion, and he's a private school boy. It just shows how far speaking with conviction goes, no matter the message. Politicians are moulded by focus groups and are too scared to say anything that might cause their approval rating to drop slightly It's pretty grim that we're at a stage where politicians are sculpted by a team that tell them what to wear, what to say and how to say it. That's why people will get behind someone that stands out from the Manchurian candidates.

Farage must be pretty brave by politicians standards talking about his idea of a 'NHS debate' then, because his opinion on the matter is very unpopular not only with the voters but within his own party.

 

[Red]

What I love about Farage is he's managed to get the working class to believe he's their champion, and he's a private school boy. It just shows how far speaking with conviction goes, no matter the message. Politicians are moulded by focus groups and are too scared to say anything that might cause their approval rating to drop slightly. It's pretty grim that we're at a stage where politicians are sculpted by a team that tell them what to wear, what to say and how to say it. That's why people will get behind someone that stands out from the Manchurian candidates.

Do you think if UKIP were anywhere near being in power Farage would speak with as much conviction as he does? It's easy to speak with conviction when you're not contesting the opportunity to govern.

Not saying it's right that politicians who are contesting governance don't speak with conviction.

 

[Aber gas]

TBF most people thought Tony Benn was a champion of the working classes and it's not like he was a miner's son.

Completely agree with the second half of your post.

Tbf though tony benn did nothing but work for the poorest people in society regardless of his background.

 

[HertsWolf]

Tbf though tony benn did nothing but work for the poorest people in society regardless of his background.

Never liked him but I do agree with that. Difficult to fault his sincerity.

 

[Christian Slater]

Do you think if UKIP were anywhere near being in power Farage would speak with as much conviction as he does? It's easy to speak with conviction when you're not contesting the opportunity to govern.

Not saying it's right that politicians who are contesting governance don't speak with conviction.

No, not at all. I think we witnessed an example of that with Clegg at the last elections, he spoke a good game but abandoned it all when he was given a sniff of power.

 

[Pilgrim Meister]

From Nigel Farage's Facebook Page

Amjad Bashir, a Member of the European Parliament for the United Kingdom Independence Party has today been suspended pending investigations into a number of issues which we consider to be extremely serious. Mr Bashir has been informed of the specifics of the investigations which include unanswered financial and employment questions, interference with UKIP candidate selection processes and a continued affiliation with Mujeeb Bhutto, despite the party’s protests against Mr Bhutto’s involvement with Mr Bashir or UKIP.

A UKIP spokesman said: "The UK Independence Party has a zero-tolerance policy and takes the matters at hand extremely seriously. The allegations against Mr Bashir are of a grave nature and we will be forwarding our evidence obtained so far to the police. UKIP will not tolerate anyone abusing their positions in the party, as we have a firm commitment to differing ourselves from the existing political classes. As a result, Mr Bashir’s involvement with the party was suspended today with immediate effect pending further investigations."

I wonder what the papers will come up with

 

[SUTSS]

Apparently was going to reveal he had defected to the Conservatives tomorrow. You have to wonder whether this would have been kept secret if that wasn't the case.

 

[SUTSS]

Confirmed he has defected to the Tories.

 

[Pilgrim Meister]

Confirmed he has defected to the Tories.

I suspect he will now whistle blow and give the papers plenty to talk about

 

[Pilgrim Meister]

I suspect he will now whistle blow and give the papers plenty to talk about

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...jad-Bashir-defects-to-Conservative-Party.html

 

[TractorBoys]

It awaits to be seen but can only see this turning out to be more complete tosh from the 'political party' that is UKIP.

Fucking ludicrous. The fact now that seemingly a decent proportion of our country supports them is incredibly depressing.

 

[Conker]

It awaits to be seen but can only see this turning out to be more complete tosh from the 'political party' that is UKIP.

Fucking ludicrous. The fact now that seemingly a decent proportion of our country supports them is incredibly depressing.

Unfortunately you can say the same for the other major political partys.

 

[Etty Abrics]

I suspect the latter. They pretty much know that putting resources in there would be a waste of time, and also they are banking on UKIP splitting the Tory Vote. If Labour put their resources into their Heartlands, they are more likely to get into power

Labour held Thanet South (and Dover, a neighbouring constituency) between 1997 and 2010 so a win for them wouldn't be quite so fanciful.

 

[HertsWolf]

Two politicians hurling crap at each other.

This is a genuinely unusual situation and one that British people care deeply about. Personally, I am keen to know the views of seven or eight other MPs randomly chosen by the BBC.

 

[HertsWolf]

It awaits to be seen but can only see this turning out to be more complete tosh from the 'political party' that is UKIP.

Fucking ludicrous. The fact now that seemingly a decent proportion of our country supports them is incredibly depressing.

Not sure it's depressing that so many people support them as it is depressing that in 5 years, none of the other parties have effectively responded to a very disaffected group of voters. Demonising quite commonly held views (like it or not) seems to be paying into UKIP's hands.

 

[silkyman]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...deal-with-far-right-to-save-european-grouping

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2015...mments-on-the-plague-of-interracial-marriage/

Lovely bunch