US Presidential election 2016

[.V.]

Here's hoping history isn't repeating itself.

https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/his...ext-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.qgp98ms5v

 

[Bilo]

Ok so I've had some distance to this. It came as a shock, certainly, but obviously polls aren't accurate in the current political climate. But although it's a shock, there are certain things you could've seen coming.

In 1955, the three largest employers in the United States were General Motors, US Steel and General Electric. All of whom, especially GM, were at the forefront of salary, vacation, pension and health care. Today the three largest employers are Walmart, Yum (KFC, Taco Bell etc) and McDonald's. All of whom give no pension and in general, as little as possible to anyone fucked enough to be employed by them. And as shown yesterday, a lot of americans are.

So to some extent, you can understand why they voted for Trump. He might change something, and change is desperately needed for a generation who are now witnessing their kids grow up with less money and less possibilities than themselves. To some extent, it's understandable.

Then it's the obvious, the financial crisis and the progress for minorities: both of these things have historically been followed by a backlash. After the segregation-bill passed in the 50's, a klan-member got 12 million votes in the presidential election. For more on the correlation between the progress for minorities and intolerance, you'd do well to read Karen Stenner's "The authoritarian dynamic". Written in 2005, when right wing populism still was something left in the 30's and 40's, Stenner predicted that "intolerance lies not behind us; but ahead of us". And that was three years before the financial crisis, more commonly blamed for the right wing populism we see in the US, Europe and even in this thread.

The problem is, of course, that much like Brexit, the voters are asking to turn back time. Protectionism so that, once again, GM with all their perks will be the biggest employer in America and you get your pension and you can send your kids to college. But protectionism doesn't work like that and in today's economy you can't use something in the 50's as a blueprint, the world is completely different today. Now, every respected expert on the subject has of course said that Trump's financial politics will fuck America over. Like protectionism always fucks every capitalistic economy, and now more so than ever.

What we failed to realize, I suspect, was how easily these people could be tricked into not believing the experts. Thinking that, somehow, the professors at Harvard, Yale and Oxford all have missed something. And that they, working at McDonald's or Walmart, will now show them. Show the professors that protectionism CAN work, although it never has, and that the minorities ARE at fault for so many of today's problems, although they never are. Show them that something which has always been wrong and ineffectual, now will be right and effectual.

What we failed to realize, is that people are desperate: the vast majority who by and large stood for nothing except for their own welfare. And like predicted by Karen Stenner, they'd fall for anything.

And to some extent it's understandable. But it's certainly not forgivable. And that's why this is so fucking depressing. Because more and more voters, across the western world, are moving into the understandable but not forgivable. We're just coming to realize quite how many have crossed that line. The only question is how many more will cross it before even the desperate, lower middle class realize something we thought obvious: that which has never worked, will not work.

Twenty years from now, to mend the huge scar right wing populism will leave on so many democracies, it'll be said that "they didn't know". Not because it's true, but because it's easier to forgive the gullible than the evil. But they did know. The fucking c*nts just wouldn't believe it.

 

[Techno Natch]

It was a good day for Drug policy though which is a positive.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Here's hoping history isn't repeating itself.

https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/his...ext-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.qgp98ms5v

But you get called crazy when you state the opinion that the world is preparing for a third world war. It will, in my opinion, unfortunately happen within most of our lifetimes. As stated in that article, humanity will live on, in the case of total war, perhaps only in the southern hemisphere, dependant upon whether it goes nuclear, and if it does, how badly, but live on it shall. It's a sad world we live in currently, but these things have happened before, and humanity will always be defeated by its own stupidity before any thing else.

This is coming from someone who voted out of the EU for my own reasons, stated within the EU thread which I shall not go over again here.

 

[Aber gas]

It was a good day for Drug policy though which is a positive.

A idea I've seen mentioned is California using taxes from cannabis to create a universal credit. Exciting idea.

 

[Pliny Harris]

The first decades of the 21th century will go down in history as the time when the white folks in Europe and North America began to have a severe adverse reaction to multiculturalism and immigration. First the rise of right-wing parties across Europe; jump to 2016 and we've had two massive examples of this development in Brexit and now in Trump. The biggest, although not only, reason these two things happened is the fear among the native white population that their society's identity is being lost.

The sad thing is that almost no one seems to either recognise this or want to talk about it as it is.

It's too big a phenomenon to be all put down to racism. There must be room - ample room - between "being racist" and "being concerned about national identity". One can be anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism without being racist at all.

But the political-correctness-produced unwillingness to talk about this in real terms is doing our generation(s) no favours. It's clear as a day, but having an open, public discussion about it in our press, media, parliaments seems almost forbidden. These referendum, election results scream about the issue, but so far we remain incredibly reluctant to even attempt to deal with it. I'm afraid history will not paint our time nicely, for the longer we turn a blind eye on this issue, the worse we will make it, and the worse it gets the harder it will be to successfully solve it. In a 50 years time there could be a lot of blame laid at our feet - and we choose to be all but oblivious to it.


That said, it's a pity the Republicans did not have a better candidate to offer a channel for the white population in America to express their fear of losing their society's identity. Trump offered that option, but he is not a skilled man and will probably be a terrible president. Nevertheless, it will be hugely interesting to see where his election leads to.

Yeah, no.

National identity is highly fluid and changes by generation, regardless of whether people of colour have the temerity to enter white folks' lives.

I'd be very, very keen on hearing everyone's parameters of "national [read: white] identity", "political correctness", "multiculturalism" etc. Identities, behaviours and cultural attributes are independent of country, and as anyone across the globe can embody whatever positive aspect of identity one could name, all I'm currently hearing is dog whistles for ethnic purity or regressive conservative values. As somebody keen on the history of my region, a student of English folk music and active in the upkeep of my locality, I'd love it if such people made contributions to those fields, but they seldom do.

For once in my life, I would adore somebody who calls themself "anti-immigrant/-multiculturalism" to face down everyday racism, but I am yet to. Maybe there is ample room for it, but I haven't seen a single incident of it. In fact, when push comes to shove they either fall silent in the face of abuse, enable it, or are the ones partaking in it. If someone can show me a strong tide of evidence to the contrary, I'd be very open to it.

If the Orange Horror winning the collegiate vote is down to a backlash towards "political correctness", then it's certainly not evident in the turnout. He received fewer votes than Mittens did in 2012, and was more lost by the Democrats haemorrhaging votes. No groundswell whatsoever, in fact the opposite. Any backlash caused by students banning white girls wearing bindis, or somebody on Tumblr self-identifying as a rolling pin seems to lack reference.

This election has been a disaster and liberalism as any functional force is dead, especially that which somehow believes that all will be well when the racists are simply given the oxygen of publicity.

 

[Nilsson]

Trump won fewer votes in victory than Mitt Romney did in defeat. Romney won 59% of white vote, Trump won 58%. Minority voters didn't turn out for Hillary, which I find shocking. Even if I hated everything Hillary stood for I would've voted for her if only to ensure a demagogue, reality TV star, sexual predator who has no clear policies, who thinks climate change isn't real (and is in fact a Chinese hoax) and has a VP who thinks gay people can be "cured" by torture didn't win.

Noam Chomsky in 2010:

 

[johnnytodd]

Anyone complaining about Trump getting less votes than HC need to remember UKIP got 4 million votes for how many seats?

The system was created to falsify results in one camps favour and now its biting them in the arse.

Power to the People !

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

The first decades of the 21th century will go down in history as the time when the white folks in Europe and North America began to have a severe adverse reaction to multiculturalism and immigration. First the rise of right-wing parties across Europe; jump to 2016 and we've had two massive examples of this development in Brexit and now in Trump. The biggest, although not only, reason these two things happened is the fear among the native white population that their society's identity is being lost.

The sad thing is that almost no one seems to either recognise this or want to talk about it as it is.

It's too big a phenomenon to be all put down to racism. There must be room - ample room - between "being racist" and "being concerned about national identity". One can be anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism without being racist at all.

But the political-correctness-produced unwillingness to talk about this in real terms is doing our generation(s) no favours. It's clear as a day, but having an open, public discussion about it in our press, media, parliaments seems almost forbidden. These referendum, election results scream about the issue, but so far we remain incredibly reluctant to even attempt to deal with it. I'm afraid history will not paint our time nicely, for the longer we turn a blind eye on this issue, the worse we will make it, and the worse it gets the harder it will be to successfully solve it. In a 50 years time there could be a lot of blame laid at our feet - and we choose to be all but oblivious to it.

Always willing to discuss immigration and how we need to abolish all borders here.

 

[JaseTheVillain]

Anyone complaining about Trump getting less votes than HC need to remember UKIP got 4 million votes for how many seats?

The system was created to falsify results in one camps favour and now its biting them in the arse.

Power to the People !

I wouldn't call that power to the people... FPTP, and the 'electoral college' are bollocks. We've had an elected prime minister here ourselves who had less votes than his opponent, majority should rule.

For the record, Winston Churchill in 1951 was the PM, taking 230,000 less votes than the opposition. Not sure if that is the only time, but the point stands.

 

[Modernist]

Hilarious listening to President Trump stating that they need to unite the country, after offending and polarising pretty much every minority.

 

[Benji]

Hilarious listening to President Trump stating that they need to unite the country, after offending and polarising pretty much every minority.

I'm sick of politicians time and time again renegging on their promises the minute they win the election!

 

[G-Dragon]

Trump now needs to lock Hillary up. Clean the swamp!

All them haters be like...

 

[Blitzballer]

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

inb4 the next four years are not all that out of the ordinary

 

[Pliny Harris]

I don't believe how dickless and PC our culture has gotten you guys. We need to violently displace 11 million Hispanic people to make up for all that time we had to treat hijabis as human beings.

 

[spireite]

It feels an extremely similar situation to the Brexit vote. In that not everyone who voted for Trump/Brexit is a bigot, but all the bigots voted for Trump/Brexit and now feel that the world agrees with them. Both votes could lead to a spike of suddenly emboldened idiots doing nasty things.

 

[Jockney]

inb4 the next four years are not all that out of the ordinary

Maybe not that out of the ordinary for you.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Maybe not that out of the ordinary for you.

if in doubt...

 

[Abertawe]

I want to make a bigger contribution when I can be arsed writing something substantial but to quickly pick on a few points. Because a person who can be construed as a legit bigot votes for something it doesn't make that something wrong by default. I've seen a few points about how this will only result in trickle down economics yet we & the US already have food banks and ex soldiers suffering PTSD on the streets begging for money. The current system isn't working for people, it can be argued it's destroying them. Offering the hope of being comfortable to people on the breadline is a clear winner. The last speech by Trump could've been an Obama one prior to his election, hope & change. The proofs gotta be in the pudding. You can manipulate the economy to increase jobs within a country, if Trump achieves that he'll easily win another term.

If we're to conclude Trump as racist then it's important to analyse what racism actually is. The current way of working hasn't exactly been great for people who aren't white. Work security fragile, imprisonment is still earning coins and blacks getting gunned down is still widespread. You've been involved in multiple administrations that have presided over those issues and you get Jay-Z & Beyonce on stage rapping lyrics that glamorise shooting niggers, using bitches as sexual playthings, committing crime to buy material goods. Wake the fuck up.

 

[Benito]

How many refugees did Israel or Saudi Arabia take?
0.

 

[Renegade]

If I see Godwin's Law invoked one more time, I think I'm going to lose my mind.

 

[johnnytodd]

 

[Stringy]

 

[Stevencc]

If I see Godwin's Law invoked one more time, I think I'm going to lose my mind.

Just like Hitler did.

 

[shane]

That is brilliant.

 

[Dirk]

 

[Jockney]

If I see Godwin's Law invoked one more time, I think I'm going to lose my mind.

I think the value-free information age tendency to reduce every bit of discourse down to tropes, there to be pulled apart by some fantastical notion of universal rationality, is probably more worrying. It's very easy to be dismissive when you're comfortable, as we all currently are to a relative degree.

 

[Jockney]

if in doubt...

I'm not calling you a fascist or a Nazi. You're very obviously too rational a dude for that. You'll always have that, EB, if nothing else (and there doesn't seem to be much else).

 

[Bilo]

This post is so absurd that I want to pick it apart simply to see what I come up with. I've never seen anyone argue this line in my life, ever. Probably for good reason.

I want to make a bigger contribution when I can be arsed writing something substantial but to quickly pick on a few points. Because a person who can be construed as a legit bigot votes for something it doesn't make that something wrong by default.

This is technically correct. However, if all the bigots agree with you and the person you're voting for is also a bigot, you're probably in the wrong.

I've seen a few points about how this will only result in trickle down economics yet we & the US already have food banks and ex soldiers suffering PTSD on the streets begging for money. The current system isn't working for people, it can be argued it's destroying them. Offering the hope of being comfortable to people on the breadline is a clear winner.

This is also mostly correct, although it's ignoring that the american economy is in a transition and that it works very well for lots of people, so I'd refrain from the phrase "the current system isn't working for people, it can be argued it's destroying them". It sounds very, well, Trump.

The last speech by Trump could've been an Obama one prior to his election, hope & change. The proofs gotta be in the pudding. You can manipulate the economy to increase jobs within a country, if Trump achieves that he'll easily win another term.

This is the best part of your post, far and away. Short term, anyone can achieve almost anything and that's what frightens me the most about Trump. He'd probably love short term results then blame everything that comes after on his successor.

If we're to conclude Trump as racist then it's important to analyse what racism actually is.

Well, it's changed slightly since people realized you shouldn't be open about hating people for their skin colour. Nowadays you see everything but skin colour; religion, nationality etc. A good example of today's racism would be saying something ridiculous such as "mexicans are rapists". Don't know why that came to mind.

The current way of working hasn't exactly been great for people who aren't white. Work security fragile, imprisonment is still earning coins and blacks getting gunned down is still widespread. You've been involved in multiple administrations that have presided over those issues and you get Jay-Z & Beyonce on stage rapping lyrics that glamorise shooting niggers, using bitches as sexual playthings, committing crime to buy material goods. Wake the fuck up.

Now this is gold, absolute gold. Because it's so ignorant it's frightening, aside from being almost entirely incorrect. But you did say you didn't put too much thought into this post, so consider this from me to you so that you don't have to.

America is the country with the most frightening, challenging and tangible structural racism in the world since they abandoned slavery. And that's not exclusive for blacks, it goes for all minorities. You mention some of the problems trying to make some sort of point that this is due to previous administrations. It's broad and in fact, incorrect. Yes, there are bills such as three strikes and you're out that Clinton passed, the ridiculous war on drugs Nixon and Reagan tried, but the fact is this: America has since the 50's made huge strides for minorities, bigger than anyone in the world.

So when you're pointing out these problems, well they're the ones that remain and the ones that the progressive part of the American political system still want to change. You can argue that Clinton was the wrong person to represent this change, but Trump is the downright opposite. His political theory is essentially to make people believe that he can turn back time, and turning back time in America literally equals more racism. And this isn't stuff I'm making up to have you look dumb, if you actually took some time and read about the history of american politics I wouldn't have to tell you. I recommended a book called The authoritarian dynamic in my previous post, you really should read it. If you can't be bothered, watch "13th" on Netflix. But then again, if your political interest stops before reading a book, perhaps you should refrain from trying to call the guys trying to fight racism racists because blatantly, you have no idea what the hell you're on about. You wrote specifically "You've been involved in multiple administrations that have presided over those issues". Jesus christ, as if they're at fault for them. Nobody believes that, nobody argues that so just stop.

The part about Jay-Z and Beyonce was also embarrassing, but it has little to do with this thread so I'll leave it.