Match Day Watford v Liverpool, Saturday 12th August 12:30

[Pagnell]

Despite the offside equaliser it's difficult to argue that a draw was unfair to Liverpool. We had additional chances to increase the lead to 4-2 and didn't take them, in typical fashion.

 

[SALTIRE]

We're still entertaining and not dull like your lot though.

 

[Pagnell]

We're still entertaining and not dull like your lot though.

The end result is the same though. A draw.

 

[Stevencc]

We're still entertaining and not dull like your lot though.

Oh, you are entertaining alright!

 

[smat]

Draw was fair I think.

Agreed mate.

 

[smat]

Despite the offside equaliser

The equaliser was not offside.

The ball did not travel forwards. It travelled backwards, or sideways at worst. The goal was valid and the result was fair.

 

[Super_horns]

Trouble is its easy to say this and that with the replays officials don't have...

Hardly looked offside in real time and that is what they have to go by...

Anyway the biggest surprise was how it ended up in the net as the kick was rubbish in the first place!

 

[Bilo]

The equaliser was not offside.

The ball did not travel forwards. It travelled backwards, or sideways at worst. The goal was valid and the result was fair.

Which part of the offside rule mentions whether or not the ball travels backwards?

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/5. law 11_554.pdf

Good luck!

 

[Bilo]

Hardly looked offside in real time and that is what they have to go by...

When someone stands on the goalkeeper and then scores a goal it's pretty much always offside.

 

[smat]

I know the law and the goal was good and true. Frustrating but fair.

 

[Bilo]

I know the law and the goal was good and true. Frustrating but fair.

You quite clearly don't know the law since the direction of the ball isn't anywhere in the law.

It's a mix-up between being behind the ball and the ball being played backwards. The former plays you onside, the latter doesn't. The direction of the ball has nothing to do with the offside rule. Rightfully so, may I add.

What a weird discussion this is. I show you the rule and you still disagree. Well ok then.

 

[smat]

I can tell you're angry - and I would be too, given how close you were to winning the game - but the goal was good. Sorry.

 

[Benji]

Smat and his alternative facts

 

[Stevencc]

I can tell you're angry - and I would be too, given how close you were to winning the game - but the goal was good. Sorry.

You can only push a man so far, this could get nasty.

 

[Bilo]

I can tell you're angry - and I would be too, given how close you were to winning the game - but the goal was good. Sorry.

We did win the game.

 

[Stevencc]

Oh no, now he's really lost it.

 

[Bilo]

Oh no, now he's really lost it.

I'm just keeping up with the times. If you can consider the word "since" a comparative term, and Smat have his own offside rule, I can say a 3-3 draw is a win. It's no more than fair.

We won the game and I am very happy with it.

 

[Stevencc]

*Backs away slowly, nodding and smiling*

 

[smat]

We won the game and I am very happy with it.

The league table says otherwise mate.

 

[Stocky]

It was offside.

Britos' left leg was in front of the ball.

 

[SALTIRE]

It was offside but no use crying over spilt milk, and defensively Liverpool were all over the shop so no excuses from me on the result.

 

[JimJams]

Is the defence being so piss poor down to the players or the manager? Lovren was a Saints rock and Matip was considered a very good cb in the Bundesliga but looks a mess at Liverpool.
After 1 good preseason performance from Moreno he's suddenly starting instead of Milner who displaced him for the duration. As well as Robertson being brought in.
Zonal marking is also the managers choice. And it doesn't work.

 

[G.B]

thou shalt not criticise klopp

 

[SALTIRE]

First game and all, we'll see how they get on over the next half dozen.

 

[Bilo]

Is the defence being so piss poor down to the players or the manager?

Firstly, our defending set pieces has been a problem since Rafa. People have short memories and this has been going on for so long that it's forgivable, but towards the end of his tenure the zonal marking at set pieces was one of the main reasons for critique. It was pretty much a message track for the pundits. I actually remember you defending it once, pointing out how we exploited man marking going forward at one point. I don't know why I remember that.

Anyway, during Hodgson iirc but especially Dalglish we did play a man marking scheme at set pieces. It didn't really help, we've been poor at defending them essentially since Hyypiä stopped being a regular. Coincidently, or perhaps not, he was the last defender we had who had both leadership abilities and a strong aerial presence.

Speaking specifically of Klopp, he always prefers the attacking option when asked to choose. Your Moreno example is spot on, he's so much more useful going forward than Milner that it really only took one impressive performance during pre-season at Bayern for Klopp to forgive him. Notably, however, is that Moreno's numbers going forward are remarkably good. I wouldn't say that any of the three goals conceded on Saturday were his fault, but they did all come from the left. It's not a coincidence either.

Coaching defensive set pieces is very hard to gauge though, because the difference between an individual mistake and a tactical one isn't always plain to see. In fact, most of the time its nigh impossible. Does Matip hold his zone despite the charging run for the first goal because of a concentration lapse or because he's told to hold his zone? It's impossible to answer.

So what goes in Klopp's favor is of course that it's been a long standing problem. What goes against him is that he's, at best, not worsened it since coming in, let alone improved it. But going back to the Hyypiä example I'd say the biggest problem is the personel and it has to start there. Until we sign a player with leadership qualities and aerial presence, the problems are likely to remain. Because while Dalglish's defending of set pieces and Klopp's defending of set pieces have less in common than me and Dessie, the problems are identical.