Welcome back MK Dons

[Bobbin']

What made you think I was talking about people in this thread? I wasn't. Some people can hold a rational conversation without resorting to it. I'm talking about people in general - take a look on Twitter, other forums etc whenever we are discussed.



Bloody hell, I can't win I take the piss out of the club I follow that everyone dislikes and still get criticised for it.

You can’t win because you’re talking bollocks.

I don’t care that you’ve made a joke about it, my point is you’ve made it for a reaction, premeditating an adverse response and then clog the thread about how much you hate abuse of the club etc despite not actually receiving any. You wanted people on here to be abusive so you could try and make a point.

Word of advice, if people disliking the club you support or people questioning the legitimacy or morals of said club upsets you then maybe don’t support one so morally devoid.

 

[Franchisor]

You can’t win because you’re talking bollocks.

I don’t care that you’ve made a joke about it, my point is you’ve made it for a reaction, premeditating an adverse response and then clog the thread about how much you hate abuse of the club etc despite not actually receiving any. You wanted people on here to be abusive so you could try and make a point.

Word of advice, if people disliking the club you support or people questioning the legitimacy or morals of said club then maybe don’t support one so morally devoid.

Read the thread again - I replied to BelizeHatter who was said about how he disagreed with how the club came about. I simply said I had no problem with people disagreeing with how the club came about, I just disagree with the verbal abuse people (I didn't mention anyone on this thread) direct at our fans indiscriminantly for supporting the club - don't know how that is trying to provoke people into a response or anything. If that's how you saw it in your mind then that's your problem.

Re your last sentence - I've made it pretty clear I don't have a problem with people hating the club.

 

[Bobbin']

Read the thread again - I replied to BelizeHatter who was said about how he disagreed with how the club came about. I simply said I had no problem with people disagreeing with how the club came about, I just disagree with the verbal abuse people (I didn't mention anyone on this thread) direct at our fans indiscriminantly for supporting the club - don't know how that is trying to provoke people into a response or anything. If that's how you saw it in your mind then that's your problem.

Re your last sentence - I've made it pretty clear I don't have a problem with people hating the club.

Right, so let’s look at this ...

We don’t dislike your club ‘for whatever reason’, we explicitly dislike it because you are a stolen team moved miles away from your origins, which you now have no connection to, by an opportunist who frankly thought he would make a bit more money up there.

We dislike you because it could have happened to any of us, we dislike you because it never should have been allowed to happen.

I would tell you to fuck off back to non-league but since you’ve never been there you’d be stealing a place from a worthy club down there yet again.

Good day to you sir.

See what I mean, it's this attitude that is just childish and pointless. Reeks of football tribalism in the worst sense. Again, the way people talk about it is as if we support the Nazi party or committed some a war crime. It's football FFS not genocide.

So PUB outlines the reason why people dislike you, which you state you have no issue with, several times.

You then take offence, calling it childish, pointless and football tribalism in its worst sense

You then going on to say how everyone had jumped on a bandwagon and they should educate themselves on how MK Dons came about.

Despite claiming that you don’t have a problem with people disliking how you came about, you seem to have a big problem with it.

Anyway, welcome. Hopefully we won’t be here next year for more of this.

 

[Franchisor]

Right, so let’s look at this ...




So PUB outlines the reason why people dislike you, which you state you have no issue with, several times.

You then take offence, calling it childish, pointless and football tribalism in its worst sense

You then going on to say how everyone had jumped on a bandwagon and they should educate themselves on how MK Dons came about.

Despite claiming that you don’t have a problem with people disliking how you came about, you seem to have a big problem with it.

Anyway, welcome. Hopefully we won’t be here next year for more of this.

You're just interpreting it the way you want to make it fit your point.

I don't have any issue with people disliking the club - but that doesn't mean I can't have a problem with people taking a biased view of what happened and using evocative words like "stolen team" instead of describing what actually happened and that was the legal purchase of the club which was then legally relocated to another area. It's generally people with those kinds of attitudes that also end up indiscriminantly verbally abusing our fans.

It's clear you and others are going to disagree and take an anti-MK view whatever I or anyone else says so it's pointless even explaining.

 

[PuB]

You did steal a football team, there’s no doubt about it.

I would never abuse your fans, and neither would Bobbin

 

[Franchisor]

You did steal a football team, there’s no doubt about it.

Didnt want a whole other debate and argument, but since you keep saying it was stolen then..

I thought to steal something you take something without consent from the person it belonged to?

1. Winkelman bought the club which was owned by two Norwegian businessmen who relocated the club to MK. This move was approved by the FA. Theft is a crime and nothing illegal happened before, during or after the move.

2. Wimbledon fans did not own the club. It was not a fan-owned club like AFC Wimbledon are now. They had no ownership rights or decision making power regarding the club.

Was it morally right? No. Should it have happened? No. Was it theft? No.

People just like to use the words "theft" and "stolen" because it sounds better and more evocative.

 

[That Fat Centre Half]

You’re arguing semantics now. Arguing whether it was a “theft” or not, shows the idealogically bankrupt nature of your argument. No one think it was an actual crime, so why are you arguing that. People use the word theft as a shorthand for the morally questionable nature of the move, that is patently obvious.

 

[Bobbin']

Winkelman bought the club which was owned by two Norwegian businessmen who relocated the club to MK. This move was approved by the FA. Theft is a crime and nothing illegal happened before, during or after the move.

If only it was that black and white.

Tell those lifelong Wimbledon fans or those kids who had just started going with their Dad that their Saturday afternoon enjoyment wasn’t stolen, for example.

Just because something was approved by the FA doesn’t make it any less scandalous.

As if the FA are the benchmark for morality. Bloody hell.

Anyway, far too much energy has been put into this now, so that’s my lot.

 

[Franchisor]

If only it was that black and white.

Tell those lifelong Wimbledon fans or those kids who had just started going with their Dad that their Saturday afternoon enjoyment wasn’t stolen, for example.

Just because something was approved by the FA doesn’t make it any less scandalous.

Anyway, far too much energy has been put into this now, so that’s my lot.

Some of those lifelong Wimbledon fans still follow the club in MK (albeit in small numbers). One of the major reasons the club fell into difficulty in the first place was low attendances relative to other clubs in Division 1/the Prem. Like it or not, football is a business and not enough paying fans in the first place unintentionally contributed to the problems (as controversial as that sounds).

You’re arguing semantics now. Arguing whether it was a “theft” or not, shows the idealogically bankrupt nature of your argument. No one think it was an actual crime, so why are you arguing that. People use the word theft as a shorthand for the morally questionable nature of the move, that is patently obvious.

Fair comment. Just think it's a big stretch to go from what actually happened to using words like "stolen club".

 

[Bobbin']

Like it or not, football is a business and not enough paying fans in the first place unintentionally contributed to the problems (as controversial as that sounds).

Welling United get about 400 every week, they’re still playing in Welling.

In 2001/2002, despite the mess the club were in, the relocation and AFC starting up, Wimbledon averaged around 7,000. Just had a quick search and I can’t see that MK have ever averaged more than about 13,000, mostly being around the 10,000 mark.

Yes, I am aware that I said I was done with this conversation.

 

[Robie]

FFS hasn't this argument been done to death now.

 

[Franchisor]

Welling United get about 400 every week, they’re still playing in Welling.

In 2001/2002, despite the mess the club were in, the relocation and AFC starting up, Wimbledon averaged around 7,000. Just had a quick search and I can’t see that MK have ever averaged more than about 13,000, mostly being around the 10,000 mark.

Yes, I am aware that I said I was done with this conversation.

It's okay, I think we're all done with this conversation. Someone always starts one each season, this year it was me.

Attendances were only an issue for Wimbledon under their business model and were more reliant on them due to having to rent Selhurst Park whilst looking for a stadium site, as well as paying high wages to players because they were in Div 1/Prem. All of this also had an impact on sponsorships and other revenue streams. In other words, attendances and gate receipts were the most important revenue stream for Wimbledon FC unless they decided to sell a load of players.

Attendances not problem for MK Dons as the owner (Winkelman) owns the club as well as the stadium (worth £100m-ish) and several of the businesses around it. The Doubletree hotel built into the ground for example offsets any losses the club makes. In other words, even though the club itself still made a loss last season, we have a £100m stadium plus other businesses supporting it.

 

[PuB]

It's okay, I think we're all done with this conversation. Someone always starts one each season, this year it was me.

Attendances were only an issue for Wimbledon under their business model and were more reliant on them due to having to rent Selhurst Park whilst looking for a stadium site, as well as paying high wages to players because they were in Div 1/Prem. All of this also had an impact on sponsorships and other revenue streams.

Attendances not problem for MK Dons as the owner (Winkelman) owns the club as well as the stadium (worth £100m-ish) and several of the businesses around it. The Doubletree hotel built into the ground for example offsets any losses the club makes. In other words, even though the club itself still made a loss last season, we have a £100m stadium plus other businesses supporting it.

Oh so you were just moved for financial reasons and your owner wanting to cash in?

 

[Franchisor]

Oh so you were just moved for financial reasons and your owner wanting to cash in?

Surely anyone buying a football club is in it for financial reasons? Yes there were big financial incentives, but if there weren't then nobody would buy a club.

Relocating the club was the only option otherwise Wimbledon would have been liquidated. If you read up on how much work was put into finding a stadium site in the years before the move you would see that option had been exhausted.

 

[GFCSludge]

You win promotion and the first thought of some of your "fans" is fucking knee slides in front of the away end, no class whatsoever.

That said, it was entertaining to watch 10,000 plastics being chased back to their seats by a hundred or so Mansfield fans.

 

[Franchisor]

You win promotion and the first thought of some of your "fans" is fucking knee slides in front of the away end, no class whatsoever.

That said, it was entertaining to watch 10,000 plastics being chased back to their seats by a hundred or so Mansfield fans.

Oh look who joined the party for a piece of the action, welcome GFCSludge.

Yeah that's right, one person knee sliding represents our entire fanbase. Good one. I guess the one or two idiots from Mansfield that threw traffic cones at MK fans driving away in their cars for no reason represents all of Mansfield too eh?

I'm looking forward to hearing what your definition of "plastic fan" is too. Do you mean fans supporting their local team instead of glory hunting and supporting a top 6 Prem team they have no connection to, or do you mean something else?

 

[GFCSludge]

A few more than one, sunshine.

Edit: My definition of a "plastic" fan is someone attaching themselves to a club that shouldn't exist in the first place. A city that essentially bought a place in the Football League. The local team was Milton Keynes City F.C, what was the matter too far down the pyramid for you?

 

[Meadow]

Oh gawd, here we go again. I said in another thread that the only downside of our great escape was having to play MK again. For the sake of my sanity, I'm blocking all frannies.

 

[DippyDon]

A few more than one, sunshine.

Edit: My definition of a "plastic" fan is someone attaching themselves to a club that shouldn't exist in the first place. A city that essentially bought a place in the Football League. The local team was Milton Keynes City F.C, what was the matter too far down the pyramid for you?

The actual MK City died 10 years or so before I was even born, partly due to the owners at the time of Wimbledon’s FC.

The whole subject of the move has been done to death it’s so boring now. It was wrong, it shouldn’t have happened etc, but it did and I was a kid when it happened. Now all That matters to me is travelling up and down the country with my local team.

 

[Franchisor]

A few more than one, sunshine.

Edit: My definition of a "plastic" fan is someone attaching themselves to a club that shouldn't exist in the first place. A city that essentially bought a place in the Football League. The local team was Milton Keynes City F.C, what was the matter too far down the pyramid for you?

Weird definition of plastic.

What's wrong with your local non-league club in Gillingham, too far down the pyramid for you? Applies to every town and city in the country.

I hadn't even heard of Milton Keynes City until a few years ago. The only local club I knew, which happened to be on my doorstep (well, under a mile away when I lived in Central MK) was MK Dons.

If anything, it makes supporters of MK more committed and less "plastic" than any other fan having to put up with constant vitriol from almost every other football fan in the country simply due to the team we follow. That takes grit.

Most other clubs just have to put up with the occasional shite from a local rival, we have to put up with it from everyone (although I'm pleased to say an increasing number are starting to see sense and move on).

 

[PuB]

You’re an obvious wum, and it makes it worse that you’re not very good at it.

 

[Franchisor]

You’re an obvious wum, and it makes it worse that you’re not very good at it.

Thanks for that. For peace of mind, I'm not a WUM, just replying to the usual repetitive nonsense. Don't know why I bothered in the first place to be honest, but people keep replying.

 

[Bobbin']

If anything, it makes supporters of MK more committed and less "plastic" than any other fan having to put up with constant vitriol from almost every other football fan in the country simply due to the team we follow. That takes grit.

 

[Fedora Dale]

In the words of The Hermes House Band (featuring DJ Otzi):

"MK Dons - Feck off home
To the place you belong
Merton Borough, South West 19
Feck off home, MK Dons"

 

[Lamby]

MK are the real Dons, AFC are a bunch of stroppy little kids looking on with jealousy wondering why they even bothered starting a phoenix club.

 

[stevie_howard]

I've never understood why Milton Keynes travel so poorly. Even when averaging about 7 or 8000 at home they seem to travel in numbers more akin to Stevenage or Crawley.

 

[Fedora Dale]

MK are the real Dons, AFC are a bunch of stroppy little kids looking on with jealousy wondering why they even bothered starting a phoenix club.

"Underground, overground, Wumbling Free..."

 

[Lamby]

"Underground, overground, Wumbling Free..."

If you're into furries then just keep it a secret tbh

 

[Fedora Dale]

If you're into furries then just keep it a secret tbh

At least I've never had SharI Lewis's hand up my jacksie...

 

[Bobbin']

I've never understood why Milton Keynes travel so poorly. Even when averaging about 7 or 8000 at home they seem to travel in numbers more akin to Stevenage or Crawley.

That’s because they’re more committed and less plastic then the rest of ....... oh wait.