Who should be in goal for England this summer?

[Liam_SWFC]

Pickford or Butland. If I had to pick I'd probably go for Pickford.

 

[S2_Blade]

Pickford out of them four but i would pick Ben Foster on current form, he has been awesome in past month since Darren Moore took charge and done pretty well before that.

 

[St. Juste]

Kimmich?

Fuck off, what has he done?

Some honourable mentions here but still think Walker is better going forward than all 3 of those.

These posts have aged terribly - and in barely two weeks.

Whilst Walker was shipping goals through awful defending in both legs of the CL QF Kimmich was scoring in both legs of the CL SF.

What has he done?

 

[Carver]

These posts have aged terribly - and in barely two weeks.

Whilst Walker was shipping goals through awful defending in both legs of the CL QF Kimmich was scoring in both legs of the CL SF.

What has he done?

It was his bad defending that cost Munich against Madrid if you didn't know.

 

[St. Juste]

It was his bad defending that cost Munich against Madrid if you didn't know.

And he scored in both legs.

Whilst Walker didn't score, and his shocking defenders lead to goals in both legs.

To ask again - what has Kimmich done?

A lot more than Walker, and in far less time - is the answer.

 

[mistermagic]

These posts have aged terribly - and in barely two weeks.

Whilst Walker was shipping goals through awful defending in both legs of the CL QF Kimmich was scoring in both legs of the CL SF.

What has he done?

You oddly looked over the fact that his goal in the opening leg was helped by a horrible anticipation by Navas. Had he stayed on his feet, he would saved that no problem.

All about opinions of course. Kimmich is a very good RB but so is Walker.

 

[St. Juste]

You oddly looked over the fact that his goal in the opening leg was helped by a horrible anticipation by Navas. Had he stayed on his feet, he would saved that no problem.

All about opinions of course. Kimmich is a very good RB but so is Walker.

Why is that odd? Do goals not count if the keeper should save them? You could ignore it was excellent anticipation from Kimmich to read the game, the keeper, and place it where it won't be saved. But even if it was a mistake it wouldn't make any difference.

The opinion expressed earlier was that Walker was even better than Kimmich. Indeed "what has Kimmich ever done". Anyone watching the CL QFs, and SFs, would come to a drastically different conclusion.

 

[mistermagic]

Why is that odd? Do goals not count if the keeper should save them? You could ignore it was excellent anticipation from Kimmich to read the game, the keeper, and place it where it won't be saved. But even if it was a mistake it wouldn't make any difference.

The opinion expressed earlier was that Walker was even better than Kimmich. Indeed "what has Kimmich ever done". Anyone watching the CL QFs, and SFs, would come to a drastically different conclusion.

The goal was due to Navas' poor anticipation rather than Kimmich's quality strike. Praising the German for that goal is a bit off in my book.

Then again, look who I'm talking to...

 

[St. Juste]

The goal was due to Navas' poor anticipation rather than Kimmich's quality strike. Praising the German for that goal is a bit off in my book.

Then again, look who I'm talking to...

So you are giving him absolutely no praise for a full back scoring in the Champions League Semi FInal? Despite the run and finish?

Someone should tell Maynor Figueroa that he doesn't deserve credit for his goal because the goalkeeper was off his line.

An incredible position to take.

 

[SamSam]

Hey everyone! Does anyone else go to the WorldCup in Russia? Those who do, wouldn't you help me out with something, please? Last year I travelled to Russia for the Confed champ. And, basically, I do have an ID from the last year. Do I have to reorder it or an old one will do? What would you say?

 

[mistermagic]

So you are giving him absolutely no praise for a full back scoring in the Champions League Semi FInal? Despite the run and finish?

Someone should tell Maynor Figueroa that he doesn't deserve credit for his goal because the goalkeeper was off his line.

An incredible position to take.

The run? Yes. The finish? Absolutely not. It was a speculative goalbound shot from an acute position that shouldn't have resulted in a goal (especially in a CL semi).
Would you have a link for that Figueroa goal? I know he's a LB who played for Wigan but haven't been following his latest exploits.

Hey everyone! Does anyone else go to the WorldCup in Russia? Those who do, wouldn't you help me out with something, please? Last year I travelled to Russia for the Confed champ. And, basically, I do have an ID from the last year. Do I have to reorder it or an old one will do? What would you say?

I'd reorder one just to be on the safe side. Russians don't fuck about with security. Why take the risk? It's free.

 

[CEngelbrecht]

No one. No one should even be playing. The refereeing standard is gonna be so corrupt and grotesque that more than one national team is just gonna pack it up and go home prematurely before we're even out of the group stage. Probably when somebody dies after daring to score a goal against Mother Russia. Get ready to see more blood in the stadiums than Heysel.

 

[Kim Mitten]

Is Walker a good player, yes. Is Walker a good right back, no. He reminds me of Roberto Carlos, great in a swashbuckling, attacking with verve side but actually get him to play right back positionally and defensively and he's not all that.
In the current England team I would not have him in the 1st XI because he's going to be asked to play a drastically different role to the one he plays at Man City and he won't be getting forward as much.
As it always seems with England teams and coaches they see a good player and just think 'where can we shoe horn him into our system'

As for the question on this thread...Does it matter? I'd actually like to see a different goalkeeper in all 3 group matches. Whoever plays best gets the round of 16 game, if England can get out of the group.

 

[St. Juste]

The run? Yes. The finish? Absolutely not. It was a speculative goalbound shot from an acute position that shouldn't have resulted in a goal (especially in a CL semi).
Would you have a link for that Figueroa goal? I know he's a LB who played for Wigan but haven't been following his latest exploits.
I'd reorder one just to be on the safe side. Russians don't fuck about with security. Why take the risk? It's free.

He's only ever scored one goal of note, and from his own half.

To think of all the goals Messi or Ronaldo scored that the keeper should have saved...and they shouldn't really get credit for.

Kimmich scored in both legs, are you okay with his other goal counting?

I think the only viable circumstances when a player shouldn't get credit for a goal is when an opponent shouts and it bounces off them without any involvement on their part. If that was the case, you might have a valid point.

As it is, a goal hardly counting because the keeper should save it? Unheard of territory in any context.

Kimmich scored in both legs of the CL semi final, Walker looked awful in both legs of the CL QF.

Is Walker a good player, yes. Is Walker a good right back, no. He reminds me of Roberto Carlos, great in a swashbuckling, attacking with verve side but actually get him to play right back positionally and defensively and he's not all that.
In the current England team I would not have him in the 1st XI because he's going to be asked to play a drastically different role to the one he plays at Man City and he won't be getting forward as much.
As it always seems with England teams and coaches they see a good player and just think 'where can we shoe horn him into our system'

As for the question on this thread...Does it matter? I'd actually like to see a different goalkeeper in all 3 group matches. Whoever plays best gets the round of 16 game, if England can get out of the group.

He's not like Roberto Carlos either (or, say Dani Alves). Technically Walker is not a particularly good player. He has six assists this season, not terrible, but how many of them were excellent crosses as opposed to just pull backs?

Walker should of course start for England, they have no one better, but he's not a good enough player for Man City.

Someone like Trent Alexander Arnold has far more to his game, and is far better technically, than Walker is or ever will be.

He's fast, but neither a particularly good footballer nor a particularly good defender.

His career will go the way of Joe Hart.

 

[SF_]

Scotsman slating English players, shocker.

Suppose they have nothing else to do this summer.

 

[St. Juste]

Scotsman slating English players, shocker.

Suppose they have nothing else to do this summer.

Constructive, it's probably my fault he played terribly in both CL legs whilst Kimmich scored twice in a later round.

Saying Kimmich is better than Walker can only be anti English bias and not based on the available facts.

 

[SF_]

Constructive, it's probably my fault he played terribly in both CL legs whilst Kimmich scored twice in a later round.

Saying Kimmich is better than Walker can only be anti English bias and not based on the available facts.

You randomly started slating Walker on a goalkeeper thread long before Kimmich was mentioned.

 

[St. Juste]

As a comparison to Joe Hart (who this thread is partly about).

I've been saying for years how horribly overrated Hart is, whilst some were saying he was the best keeper in the world.

Of course, Hart had a spectacular fall from grace and I was proven right.

I think the same will happen with Walker, lauded despite being average and he will eventually fall flat having a similar fall from grace.

 

[SF_]

Hart has never been close to being the best goalkeeper in Manchester, never mind the world.

I've never heard anyone make those sort of claims, ever.

At his best, he was steady but he's been utter shit for years.

 

[St. Juste]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...euer-Joe-Hart-best-goalkeeper-world-time.html

 

[SF_]

The Daily fucking Mail?... come on...

Their headlines usually consist of claims that Hitler was a Muslim extremist.

What timeframe are we putting on Walker's demise? when he's 33 and his legs are going? because he's 28 this month and is a regular in a side that just broke the Premier League points total.

That Zidane is a bit shit these days.

 

[mistermagic]

He's fast, but neither a particularly good footballer nor a particularly good defender.

His career will go the way of Joe Hart.

He was in most experts' Euro 2016 team of the tournament despite England's failed tournament...

 

[AFCB_Mark]

If somebody of Txiki Begiristain's pedigree spends a year teeing up a £50m transfer for someone, as he and Man City did for Walker, when they could purchase just about any player in the world, then that says to me he's pretty good.

A deal like that wouldn't have been completed without Guardiola agreeing to such a chunk of his budget going on Walker, in a position very important to Guardiola sides as fullback. I remember Juste scoffing at the suggestion City/Guardiola would want Walker, but they wanted him and so of course they got him.

Just talking generally about football at present there is a dearth across the board of classically solid defenders. Certainly seems a trend in European football presently, with (it feels like at least) fewer and fewer clean sheets occurring. I'm hoping that will be reflected in the World Cup with more goals than we've had in the previous couple of tournaments.

Whilst it's refreshing to hear you St. Juste talk up a young English lad like Trent Alexander Arnold, I think that's very early days to be doing that. TAA has been exposed defensively at Liverpool at times this season, recently against Roma being one example. He's sure to be a regular for England in some shape or form as time goes on. But at this point he's not 20, and I'd like to avoid the common England habit of throwing someone in the deep end because they're trendy. TAA is part of a generation we need to blood in the coming years, there's no question as of now that we pick Walker ahead of TAA.

As for the original topic for goalkeeper, it's interesting to see that almost of the statistical data from this season around saves per goal / saves per expected goal and all that jazz - points to Pope being the best English keeper. With Pickford or Butland coming second and third depending on the metric / method. Overall this season (in the PL) David De Gea tops all these by a mile, with Pope usually his nearest in 2nd.

So if you were going purely by the numbers, you can't look past Pope. The difficult bit is can/would you parachute Pope straight into that England no1 shirt with no international experience what so ever? Leapfrogging Pickford and Butland, and Hart of course, who've been around the squad and seem to have been penciled in as our 3 keepers for 2018 for the last year or two.

And where does distribution factor into the priorities, can we say Pickford is the better distributor, and is that enough to secure him the no1 shirt? Despite Pope's (seemingly) better basic goalkeeping this season.

It's probably a more interesting debate than the merits of Kyle Walker!

 

[St. Juste]

Hart has never been close to being the best goalkeeper in Manchester, never mind the world.

I've never heard anyone make those sort of claims, ever.

The Daily fucking Mail?... come on...

Their headlines usually consist of claims that Hitler was a Muslim extremist.

What timeframe are we putting on Walker's demise? when he's 33 and his legs are going? because he's 28 this month and is a regular in a side that just broke the Premier League points total.

That Zidane is a bit shit these days.

So nobody said it...except the most read newspaper in the UK?

I never seen that Daily Mail headline - care to provide a link?

I'd say by 31 he will no longer be starting for City. Depends, if he has more games like he did against Liverpool in the CL it will be much sooner than that.

He was in most experts' Euro 2016 team of the tournament despite England's failed tournament...

And most experts had Carillion as a 'buy' just before it went into administration.

What did Walker do well during Euro 2016?

Whilst it's refreshing to hear you St. Juste talk up a young English lad like Trent Alexander Arnold, I think that's very early days to be doing that. TAA has been exposed defensively at Liverpool at times this season, recently against Roma being one example. He's sure to be a regular for England in some shape or form as time goes on. But at this point he's not 20, and I'd like to avoid the common England habit of throwing someone in the deep end because they're trendy. TAA is part of a generation we need to blood in the coming years, there's no question as of now that we pick Walker ahead of TAA.

Walker was more exposed defensively than TAA in the Champions League.

As to the fact Man City bought him (therefore he is great) there are a few potential reasons for this. A real dearth of quality at right back, Walker crucially being a home grown player, attempting to weaken a rival etc.

My criticism is from watching him play. He is not a natural defender, he is not as technically gifted as many modern fullbacks.

He runs fast, that is his core competence.

Again, there are those who scoffed about Hart not being a great player (but Pellegrini and Mancini are picking him!!)

I'm calling Walker out, he is not a great player, and not as good as (say) Kimmich - and miles off someone like Dani Alves. These are Guardiolas last two right backs, that is the level you need to win the CL and Walker has been brutally exposed at that level.

 

[SF_]

So nobody said it...except the most read newspaper in the UK?

I never seen that Daily Mail headline - care to provide a link?

I'd say by 31 he will no longer be starting for City. Depends, if he has more games like he did against Liverpool in the CL it will be much sooner than that.

Not read by me, i've never seen anyone with a brain suggest Hart was better than De Gea, Buffon or Neuer.

Adrian Durham is a wind up merchant whose sole aim is to annoy people in order to generate debate, which is clearly what he's doing in that article. Not the best example is it?

What's your actual point anyway? by the time Kyle Walker is 31, he will be the level of Glen Johnson? Well Johnson was always shite, whereas Walker has been ever present in a side who has won the Premier League and impressed in a major international tournament.

He's in his prime and playing for the best club in England, one of the top 8 sides in Europe.

 

[St. Juste]

Not read by me, i've never seen anyone with a brain suggest Hart was better than De Gea, Buffon or Neuer.

Adrian Durham is a wind up merchant whose sole aim is to annoy people in order to generate debate, which is clearly what he's doing in that article. Not the best example is it?

What's your actual point anyway? by the time Kyle Walker is 31, he will be the level of Glen Johnson? Well Johnson was always shite, whereas Walker has been ever present in a side who has won the Premier League and impressed in a major international tournament.

He's in his prime and playing for the best club in England, one of the top 8 sides in Europe.

But to reiterate, it happened in the most read newspaper in the UK. Whether or not he is better is moot, people thought he was great and it was clear to me he absolutely was not. I pointed it out, and I was vindicated.

Glen Johnson is a great example - people used to think he was good player too. Walkers career will go the way of Glen Johnson. How long was his initial City contract? I can't see him signing a new one.

But still, time will tell. Walker won't survive long if he plays like he did against Liverpool in the CL.

 

[SF_]

But to reiterate, it happened in the most read newspaper in the UK. Whether or not he is better is moot, people thought he was great and it was clear to me he absolutely was not. I pointed it out, and I was vindicated.

Glen Johnson is a great example - people used to think he was good player too. Walkers career will go the way of Glen Johnson. How long was his initial City contract? I can't see him signing a new one.

But still, time will tell. Walker won't survive long if he plays like he did against Liverpool in the CL.

I've always thought Glen Johnson was absolutely terrible so you're talking to the wrong man.

Walker and Johnson play a similar game, but Walker does it much, much, much better.

Five year deal he signed, taking him to 32.

 

[Stevencc]

Which is about the age of the full backs Pep instantly replaced when he joined City - Walker probably won't sign another City contract, but that won't necessarily be a reflection of his quality.

 

[Skinner]

Clyne is better than Walker, always has been.

 

[AFCB_Mark]

The number 1 shirt in the squad has been given to Pickford. Not a guarantee, but a hint you'd think.