WWE Raw Discussion Thread

[Captain Scumbag]

^
Maybe unwise to comment without knowing what was discussed backstage, but generally speaking I don't like stuff like that. It particularly bothers me when the people involved lack political power, because it's hard not to wonder whether they felt pressured into it.

I mean, I'm reasonably confident that Mark Calloway wouldn't have gone along with the Paul Bearer stuff (ref. Punk Vs Taker feud, 2013) if he'd had a serious problem with it. He's a much-respected veteran who has political clout. He's in a position to say no. He's also, by all accounts, a very decent bloke. I'm reasonably confident he spoke to William Moody's family, got their blessing beforehand, etc.

But can you have that sort of confidence when the key people involved are Paige (aged 23) and Charlotte (on the main roster less than 6 months)? Even if you throw Ric into that mix… I dunno. He's a guy with well-documented financial problems. Does he want to sour his relationship with the company? Does he want to cause problems/complications that might inhibit his daughter's career?

 

[T.A]

You have to think long and hard about what is being said. I agree with the above about being strong enough to say no. Even so is it worth it? I don't think the rivalry needed something like that.

It's also very different to someone dying because of a drug problem rather then due to natural causes etc.

Very risky move imo.

 

[Stevencc]

After reading T.A's comment on cheap heat I was expecting Cena to return with an ISIS gimmick or something.

It was pretty tasteless though, not something that particularly adds to a feud and also not something that even elicited much of a reaction from the crowd.

 

[Libertine]

Reigns v Cesaro was a corker. Enjoyed the tournament so far.

 

[Stevencc]

So it turns out that Ric wasn't in on the ending to Raw and that he cried when he saw it live.

 

[T.A]

Where have you seen this?

 

[Stevencc]

http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/20...-cried-watching-charlotte-paige-angle-raw-wwe

 

[T.A]

Well that doesn't surprise me one bit. It seems they backed to inexperienced superstars just for some cheap heat. Both of them looked uncomfortable and I know they're good friends away from wrestling. Just a dick head move from the top imo.

 

[Stevencc]

https://streamable.com/cmck

 

[T.A]

That's fantastic.

 

[Christian Slater]

https://streamable.com/cmck

This is a great running joke. The conviction at the beginning is hilarious.

It'd be a good payoff if he didn't appear for something he actually was in.

 

[Baz]

Opening segment all too predictable. Rusev returning is a good thing to see, seems they're continuing the European faction thing.

Dudleyz put over The Wyatts which is what was needed. Strowman still being show to be a beast during his limited involvement, WWE being smart for a change.

Sasha/Becky didn't get anywhere near enough time for them to do anything other than what they did.

New Day stealing the show with their jamboree haha. Luchas & Usos answer the open challenge. Nice to hear both Kalisto & Sin Cara on the mic too. Open challenge of course didn't take place so maybe triple threat at TLC?

Neville over a happy smiley Henry was a surprise. After the loss I was expecting Henry to go all monster heel but he didn't. Is this the start of a mini push for Neville?

6 man tag is used to further Goldust vs Stardust obviously. Perhaps Goldust will finally get the decent feud he wants with his brother to end his in ring career?

Boring stuff between Del Rio/Colter/Swagger. Del Rio vs Swagger is set for Smackdown.

Divas title match yeah wasn't bad but again the finish spoiled it again. Paige is the best female wrestler they have and I know they need to establish a top level heel in the diva division again but Paige needs to be a tweener anti-diva and is above dirty finishes.

Slater segment, ends as you would expect.

Breeze jobs to Ambrose in a tag match oh deary me. I get they need to keep Ambrose relevant but they got a chance to make a solid mid card guy with Breeze yet he's in the Santino role, jobbing the majority of the time and winning the odd match sigh.

Main event was semi decent. Props to Reigns for all his improvement and hopefully Rusev can get back to what he was. The EU stable backing eachother up leads me to believe they'll be a separate entity from the Authority with the Authority just approving of Sheamus.

So so Raw for me.

 

[Luke]

I was incredibly bored half way through and thought it was a crap Raw.

Reigns going against the Authority ala Bryan style and Del Rio/Swagger going through an anti America angle which will lead to Cena returning for his country ala Rusev earlier this year, boringgg.

Seriously debating having a break and not really watching much until Rumble, I'm fed up and I thought Survivor series was crap.

The whole Slater/Ryback segment sums things up for me at the moment, crap. Can't stand Ryback either on a side note.

Despite what others have said I haven't been so deflated with the product until now. Was debating going raw at o2 and making a trip out of it in April as tickets go on sale Friday but think I'll hold fire, did enjoy it though the other week in Manchester.

 

[Christian Slater]

To me it appears as though they have a long term direction but they're taking the most boring, direct route to get there. By the time they give Reigns the title, properly, he'll have already defeated the majority of the roster, he isn't interesting enough to watch in fresh feuds as it is.

Raw was fucking abysmal. Nothing changes, even if they think moving names around into the same thing makes it so.

 

[RavenBish]

RAW ratings last night were 2.16

The lowest in nearly 20 years.

Take the fucking hint Vince.

 

[Christian Slater]

That happening with a new champ crowned, which historically bumps ratings, is damning.

 

[Leewilson]

I'm not even sure the ratings are down to storylines or who is holding the title. Quite frankly, we've been saying for the last 7 years or so that WWE hasn't built new stars and has relied on the old guard for the majority of the big events. They are now paying the price for that as there is a very soft underbelly on a roster missing Cena, Orton, Punk, Brock, Bryan and others who have retired.

 

[Saddlerrad]

Hopefully they get the idea quickly that Sheamus won't do and that Vince needs to call it a day. The show is a joke and ratings reflect that.

 

[Christian Slater]

Dave Meltzer coined the phrase 'Mid-Card Era' today. That couldn't be more apt. He also revealed producers at WWE are fully aware of the 50/50 booking where everyone is made to look the same and they even joke about it, calling it 'the 500 club'.

If any other business was performing this poorly the person in charge of decision making would have been fired long ago.

 

[Baz]

What also is killing the business is the fact those in charge don't have the rocket up their arses to produce new ideas because they have no competition.

 

[Gilly?]

Brad Maddox released. Fuck sake, WWE!

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

RAW ratings last night were 2.16

The lowest in nearly 20 years.

Take the fucking hint Vince.

Too late in my view.......damage has been done, I do not think there is anything WWE can do to reverse the damage longer term now.

Question is what year the big financial collapse happens in WWE, its going to at some point, they may make money now, ALOT of money, but that can be 100% wiped out in just 1 year when it collapses.

Second question is what will be left of the Wrestling industry when it does.

 

[RavenBish]

I think that's a little premature, this happens every year when they wind down around Christmas and then make a big push after the Rumble. It's just this year they've really suffered because of all the injuries.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

The ratings usually go down from September to December because the NFL is on and MNF airs at the same time as Raw. WWE then usually exacerbates the problem by accepting a period of poor ratings is inevitable and deciding not to try. It's extra worse (ratings wise) this year because top draws like Cena, Taker and Lesnar are all missing.

But, to repeat the observation I made back in October, they're still doing okay financially. The profit margin for the third quarter was 6.24%. That's higher than the profit margin for the first quarter, which included their two biggest PPVs of the year. The ratings are poor, but they're still making truckloads from their TV deals, network subscriptions, merchandise sales, etc. The profit margin will drop in the final quarter, but things will pick up again in the new year.

This Sheamus malarkey… it sucks, but it's just a stop gap. He had the briefcase and the MITB concept required a cash-in attempt before May. They won't want Sheamus in the title picture when they have WM32 to sell, so it's probably sensible to get it over with now, when the roster is depleted and they're not really trying anyway. Who knows? Maybe a feud with Sheamus will be a good thing for Reigns, since he's pretty much the only heel on the roster who the smarks won't cheer for.

My advice? Do what I do most years: check out after Summerslam and check back in when they start to build RR. And if you want to show your displeasure, cancel your network subscription in the intermediate period.

 

[Christian Slater]

Ratings have historically tailed off during this period, it's usually the part of the year where Big Show gets a prominent push back to a main event programme. What's unique this time is the rate of viewers they are losing. Raw is down 1m viewers from the same time last year and lost 300k from last week, roughly 10% of the audience. The Network might be profitable at the moment, but to grow it needs to attract new fans. The question is why would anyone become a fan of WWE in its current climate? I think the Survivor Series was it for many masochistic fans that have been unfathomably loyal through some very shitty years.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

Christian has said the main thing its not ratings which matter its number of viewers and WWE's are sinking now for 14-15 months straight.

That ended up TNA's demise, went from 2 million down to 1.5 million, then down to 1 million......then the network found them not as vital and it went down to 600,000 then 400,000 etc, etc.

While WWe's won't be as extreme they can still have the big problem 1-2 years down line that TV companies find them not a vital asset anymore and that can start a rapid decline.

I think the biggest worry is now even bringing back the stars does nothing for them, only the Rock is left who can truly draw any numbers. Plus a lot of Die hards..............the real WWE nut-jobs who watched through what they seem is the worst are now close to stopping.............once you get out of it then it can be hard to get back.

 

[Captain Scumbag]

I'm not sure I fully understand the ratings/viewers distinction you and Christian are making. Can either you expand?

 

[Christian Slater]

I'm not sure I fully understand the ratings/viewers distinction you and Christian are making. Can either you expand?

I was backing up your point that ratings drop during this time of the year and the WWE gives in completely. What's different is the amount the ratings have dropped. Raw is now hitting the same ratings Smackdown was a couple of years ago. The interest in product is waning, if they continue booking the way they have for the last five years they're going to cause some serious damage to themselves.

 

[Eamonn]

The ratings are absolutely dire, massive drop over the past few months, while you can make allowances for internet views and catchup services, the sharp decline in TV viewership in such a short space of time must be alarming. It will as Dave says have big implications when it comes to future TV deals as the big bucks will not be paid for a continually declining viewership. That said, I thought Raw was pretty good this week, almost all segments had a purpose, big more mic time for some and storyline developments, thought Spike was coming out when Dudleys said family but Dreamer was still quite cool. Didnt like Wyatts just not mentioning Undertaker/Kane anymore and completely moving on yet again. Becky heel turn incoming soon as well it seems.

I like the league of nations, might make ADR more bearable, though a strange decision for him character wise to join, given he supposedly dislikes non Mexican/Americans and only a few weeks ago was slagging off the UK. Sheamus as champion has been entertaining for me but part of me thought Reigns was going to win until I saw the match wasnt the man event. I think Reigns needs the title soon and not Mania. Hopefully Bryan will be back soon to lift things also. Unfortunately, there are a multitude of problems remaining in how a number of wrestlers are booked and the strcuture and creativity on the show but thought it was certainly better this week than last and the run up to Survivor Series was an improvement also.

 

[Saddlerrad]

People also have to remember that WWE is lacking some serious star power at the minute with the injury list.