WWE Raw Discussion Thread

[RavenBish]

Made out it was all about Bryan too, which isn't completely true IMO. Reigns being nowhere near ready was the main gripe for most I think, though he has improved a lot since the start of all that.

The WM main event proved he was ready imo, he was superb. It's a rare case where Vinnie Mac and his boys were right and the fans were wrong. Since Mania, he's been booked terribly though - the same as his 'push', the booking was terrible, not him. Him and Ambrose are dead in the water mid-carders at this point, which is startling given the momentum they had about 8 months ago. Although I can't say I'm too upset about Ambrose, he's one of the dullest in-ring performers on the roster

 

[Christian Slater]

The WM main event proved he was ready imo, he was superb. It's a rare case where Vinnie Mac and his boys were right and the fans were wrong. Since Mania, he's been booked terribly though - the same as his 'push', the booking was terrible, not him. Him and Ambrose are dead in the water mid-carders at this point, which is startling given the momentum they had about 8 months ago. Although I can't say I'm too upset about Ambrose, he's one of the dullest in-ring performers on the roster

I couldn't disagree any more with this. It's the fans that make you, the reason Reigns wasn't ready was because fans didn't want to see him in that spot, having a good match is irrelevant to that. Indeed, where he is now is a consequence of that forced push, proving they were wrong to give him so much so soon.

 

[RavenBish]

Nah, that's rubbish. Part of the reason the fans like you is because of how you're booked. There are exceptions where some have battled through shite gimmicks and booking but a big contributing factor is booking and making fans lap it up - Reigns was given the Super Face role, a bizarre attempt to mix Cena and The Rock - an act that would never get over with a cynical fan base. The perception with Reigns was he was too 'green' or 'only had 4 moves' etc... He proved that stuff wrong between RR and WM. Even his promos were alright.

 

[Christian Slater]

What, the sufferin' succotache and child parable promos? The were embarrassing.

Booking is part of the reason why fans can also dislike or become indifferent to a wrestler. Even then it's more down to the guy to connect with the fans. Daniel Bryan, Cesaro and New Day are examples of guys that had awful booking but got over.

The fans resented Reigns because his mega push was too transparent. I think most people, including myself, like Reigns. What's not to like is a completely inorganic push to the top, no matter if the guy has the tools. The 'Divas Revolution' is a good example of this, people were eager to see women getting more of a chance but hate the way it's branded and presented.

So it's not rubbish at all, Reigns is suffering due to a corporation trying to overtly impose on the fans what they should like, rather than letting guys flourish naturally to that position.

 

[kopite]

Bizarre thing is Reigns was over before the Rumble and I think everyone was expecting Lesnar Vs Reigns at WM late December. He won superstar of the year that month which was voted for by the fans (cue the fix theories).

My personal opinion of why people turned on him is because of how Bryan was pissed on. Got eliminated far too early in the Rumble on his return and that would have angered the fans which made them turn.

If Bryan was booked to be in final 2 with an epic show down with Reigns...that would have helped both of them. But not only did they shove Bryan side they stuck him in an Intercontinental ladder match.

 

[Christian Slater]

Bizarre thing is Reigns was over before the Rumble and I think everyone was expecting Lesnar Vs Reigns at WM late December. He won superstar of the year that month which was voted for by the fans (cue the fix theories).

My personal opinion of why people turned on him is because of how Bryan was pissed on. Got eliminated far too early in the Rumble on his return and that would have angered the fans which made them turn.

If Bryan was booked to be in final 2 with an epic show down with Reigns...that would have helped both of them. But not only did they shove Bryan side they stuck him in an Intercontinental ladder match.

Bryan was definitely the biggest factor, he had to relinquish the title, returned, jobbed to Bray Wyatt, got chucked from the Rumble early and wasn't even considered for a rematch for the title until the fans forced him into the picture.

Reigns also had a long time out injured, came back without having much momentum and feuding with the cancerous Big Show to win the Rumble with the help of The Rock. The booking of Reigns when he returned from injury was a complete disaster, they'd have been so much better off having Bryan win at Fast lane.

 

[kopite]

I think you're 12 months ahead on a few things mate. Bryan jobbed to Wyatt the year before and wasn't included in the Rumble.

Following year he returned from injury at the Rumble but got chucked out early.

But overall I agree totally with your post, the way Reigns was booked to win the Rumble was shockingly bad. Massive shame if they booked it like that just to get the big pop of The Rock making the save. Would have been far better if it was Bryan and Reigns teaming up to eliminate Kane and Big Show and having them two in final 2.

 

[Libertine]

It was in Philly, it was going to get shat on regardless.

 

[Christian Slater]

I think you're 12 months ahead on a few things mate. Bryan jobbed to Wyatt the year before and wasn't included in the Rumble.

Following year he returned from injury at the Rumble but got chucked out early.

But overall I agree totally with your post, the way Reigns was booked to win the Rumble was shockingly bad. Massive shame if they booked it like that just to get the big pop of The Rock making the save. Would have been far better if it was Bryan and Reigns teaming up to eliminate Kane and Big Show and having them two in final 2.

Bryan lost to Wyatt when he came back from injury as well, mate, I think it was on Raw. Then Wyatt eliminated him from the Rumble. They were clearly going with that for Fastlane before the crowd forced their hand, Wyatt would have definitely won too seeing as he was going on to 'Taker.

 

[Saddlerrad]

The Dudley boyz just returned to a big pop on raw.

 

[Stevencc]

I'll watch it tomorrow - if the Dudley Boys are going to be hanging around to sort the tag division out then I hope Bubba Ray keeps going with the Bully Ray persona he used in TNA, it was really fantastic.

 

[Christian Slater]

Am I overstating it by saying that Dudley Boys return is up there with the most surprising moments in history? That was fucking brilliant.

 

[Christian Slater]

I'll watch it tomorrow - if the Dudley Boys are going to be hanging around to sort the tag division out then I hope Bubba Ray keeps going with the Bully Ray persona he used in TNA, it was really fantastic.

In time I agree. The greatest thing about his TNA run is the fans will put it over when it happens.

I'd love to see a 3 vs 3 tag with Orton and the Dudleys where Orton delivers the RKO on the 3D.

 

[Leewilson]

That Dudley Boys return gave me goosebumps. Bloody brilliant.

 

[Stevencc]

What a Raw that was!

Fantastic stuff.

 

[mase]

Finally finished Summerslam and now catching up with RAW, heard really good things so fingers crossed.

 

[way 4 england]

I don't get the ending?

 

[ccfctommy]

Sting v Rollins announced for NOC!!!

 

[Christian Slater]

I do hate the way wrestlers are just put into title matches with no reason or justification, it's lazy. A bit like shelving Undertaker and Lesnar until it's time be revisited by having 'Taker no-show a call out, looking even more like a bitch, and sending out Bo Dallas for a beating.

This was a great show as a stand alone, hopefully they can build to some actual storylines going forward.

 

[Saddlerrad]

Sting and the Dudley Boyz on 1 episode of Raw.... Just like rolling back the years when my brother told me this morning. Sting retiring and not being WWE Champion was always unlikely for someone so decorated.

 

[Christian Slater]

Sting and the Dudley Boyz on 1 episode of Raw.... Just like rolling back the years when my brother told me this morning. Sting retiring and not being WWE Champion was always unlikely for someone so decorated.

You think he's winning?

 

[mase]

You think he's winning?

I think he might do.

He lost at Mania, maybe he agreed to that so long as he could say he was WWE champion when he looks back. Even if he doesn't go over clean maybe?

 

[Saddlerrad]

I suspect a small title run is probably in his contract somewhere. Perhaps from NOC to Survivor Series, where Undertaker costs him the title and sets up a WM match. This does make me wonder though with Taker/Sting getting themselves in such good condition whether they will have a double retriement at WM but both appear and be in the ring most weeks leading up to it, to get a proper storyline in. Perhaps they both feel they have a couple of years left in the tank and they won't go for it at this WM.

Who knows either way, could be a good half year until WM.

 

[Christian Slater]

I think he might do.

He lost at Mania, maybe he agreed to that so long as he could say he was WWE champion when he looks back. Even if he doesn't go over clean maybe?

It'd be pretty cool, and it makes sense as you've put it. He can't really lose his first two matches unless there's interference to set up another feud.

 

[Christian Slater]

I suspect a small title run is probably in his contract somewhere. Perhaps from NOC to Survivor Series, where Undertaker costs him the title and sets up a WM match. This does make me wonder though with Taker/Sting getting themselves in such good condition whether they will have a double retriement at WM but both appear and be in the ring most weeks leading up to it, to get a proper storyline in. Perhaps they both feel they have a couple of years left in the tank and they won't go for it at this WM.

Who knows either way, could be a good half year until WM.

If it was to happen I'd like Sting to beat Rollins, Sting vs Undertaker at Survivor Series where 'Taker wins, Brock wins the Rumble ( Lesnar in the Rumble would be awesome), Brock vs 'Taker 3 for the title at 'Mania.

That'll never happen though, more like Rollins retains and goes into a three month feud with Cena.

 

[JoeJoeJoeJoe]

Cena to team with Ambrose and Reigns against the Wyatts?

 

[Saddlerrad]

If it was to happen I'd like Sting to beat Rollins, Sting vs Undertaker at Survivor Series where 'Taker wins, Brock wins the Rumble ( Lesnar in the Rumble would be awesome), Brock vs 'Taker 3 for the title at 'Mania.

That'll never happen though, more like Rollins retains and goes into a three month feud with Cena.

I can't be arsed for another Lesnar/Taker match, it's been done now and it really doesn't need to be done again. If they do Sting vs Taker it will be at WM, Vince knows how much money that could be £££££.

 

[Christian Slater]

I can't be arsed for another Lesnar/Taker match, it's been done now and it really doesn't need to be done again. If they do Sting vs Taker it will be at WM, Vince knows how much money that could be £££££.

I think they might do Sting at Survivor Series because it's the 25th anniversary of 'Taker's debut. I think Lesnar vs Undertaker 3 will be the retirement match at 'Mania, I'm not interested either but the title could embellish it somewhat as well as the fact it'd all be done then.

 

[Stevencc]

If Taker keeps collapsing like this every time he faces Brock he actually will be resting in peace pretty soon.

 

[ccfctommy]

You think he's winning?

Yes. Can you see him agreeing to lose his first two matches?