1st Matches of 2021-22 Season: 7th August 2021

[Chris FGR]

It’s not ‘FGR’s statement’ the same things been done elsewhere and never received the negative reaction taking the knee has.

My point is that separating our own anti discrimination campaigns in football from any other movements to make sure they stand for one thing only and can’t be confused with anything else is a good idea imo.

 

[shoddycollins]

It’s not ‘FGR’s statement’ the same things been done elsewhere and never received the negative reaction taking the knee has.

My point is that separating our own anti discrimination campaigns in football from any other movements to make sure they stand for one thing only and can’t be confused with anything else is a good idea imo.

There's no confusion, it's deliberate action by the far right to ensure that anything seen as being against racism gets marked out as a political statement so that they can campaign against it on that basis and bring other people in around them. Whatever it is that FGR do, I support their right to do it but it won't solve that problem, it's just not high profile enough yet to have attracted the far right's attention.

 

[Chris FGR]

What we do is the same as what Millwall did against QPR last season after all the booing when they took the knee the game before. They stood together and held up an anti racism banner, and there was no or very little booing. Nowhere to hide for racists who boo when you separate the gesture completely.

 

[Greenacres]

Have to say that I agree totally with shoddycollins post on the previous page and wish I could like it more than once...the important thing is that a stand is made against racism, or even more importantly that we as football fans are anti-racist, it is something that does not belong in our game and we must challenge it at every opportunity.

However the players want to make their point, whether that be taking the knee, standing together in the centre circle before kick-off or behind a banner from the kick-it-out campaign, I will support them unconditionally.

 

[Chris FGR]

A mate of mine went to the England v Romania game at the Riverside pre Euros. The amount of booing that happened when they took the knee was embarrassing by all accounts, players heard it loud and clear.

Surely people aren’t saying that if the team had held up a kick it out banner or whatever that would have got the same reaction?

 

[Greenacres]

A mate of mine went to the England v Romania game at the Riverside pre Euros. The amount of booing that happened when they took the knee was embarrassing by all accounts, players heard it loud and clear.

Surely people aren’t saying that if the team had held up a kick it out banner or whatever that would have got the same reaction?

It wasn't just that game, you could hear it at the England games during the Euros...especially in the group stages...but people who were at the games said it was just a minority of fans who did it and the majority, who presumably supported what the players were doing, just drowned them out.

 

[Chris FGR]

Yes a minority but a pretty big one. I’ve never seen any other anti racism campaign or gesture in football get a reaction like that though.

That’s why doing something different to promote the same message makes sense to me. That’s all I’m saying.

If players want to keep taking the knee that’s fine with me, I’m glad our club does something different.

 

[Stringy]

No you didn't. You said, "Anybody who has the misfortune to live in the area he is from can tell you its genetic.", which was in reply to Adam's comment about a screw loose. That is now your own post that you've got wrong. RE Stringy, not at all - he said a WWE comment, I held him to that. If you don't want to be held against the things you say/do, don't do it. Which is kinda ironic that your obsession with Barton about his record of the things he says and does.

Where have I been an advocate about Barton? I feel like there is a certain lack of understanding on here or not reading people's posts. I have agreed with Adam that he has a screw loose, I agreed with you that he is from bad stock, and I have said that I want him suspended. Please go back and read the posts, you want to talk about understanding other views, yet you can't understand the basics of agreeing and disagreeing.

What I am arguing against is his antics on Saturday and how they were shocking. Adam has not been able to answer than question and you have dodged that question now twice. So please tell me, what does his antics on Saturday have to do with his previous record and in what way were they shocking?


As I said, obsessed. I'm not turning every post, just trying to get you to justify your words, if you can't do that or feel challenged/offended by it, don't post it?

Oh yes, I felt that you really held me to my comment. I didn't feel at all that you were being pedantic/arguing about irrelevant things because you had said a silly thing about a red card

 

[shoddycollins]

I don't disagree with the motives of any club who wants to find a different way to express their stance against racism, ultimately its up to clubs, players and all individuals to decide how they express that.

I disagree with the political argument given by those who boo and want to try and help prevent that becoming the standard explanation such that individuals feel they can't kneel should that be the expression that carries most meaning for them. Kaepernick did it alone when everyone else was standing and he paid with his career.

Unfortunately there was quite a bit of booing and chanting at Brunton Park when the players kneeled. Our opponents Colchester had their own reckoning with this last season and acted swiftly. We thankfully didn't have that during last seasons games but there were far more fans in for the first game back from lockdown and this, as well as events at England games may have contributed.

Our own ceo Nigel Clibbens had this to say on Sunday

' We encourage the small number that opposed our players making their simple and honest gesture to reflect long and hard and think on the message you sent to our players today, after that year away.

Think now how the players who see taking the knee as an important method of raising awareness of issues of discrimination and racism must have felt as they heard the booing, and then immediately had to stand up from that to play the game not just for themselves, but on our behalf.

These are players who need to feel that they have full support as they look to perform at their highest capability. As we saw, they shook off the disappointment of the booing and they did their best for us - we MUST do our best for them.

Be Just and Fear Not is the club motto, so please Be Just towards our players. We are all 'United' after all, and we are stronger when we stand together.

We are unified in reiterating that racism, discrimination and abuse is not welcome in our game, or in our communities.

This is the message our players are sending out when they take the knee - it's one that every right-minded person should support.'

 

[Chris FGR]

Is it the message being booed or the gesture?

If it’s the gesture maybe everyone in this country can come together and back a different one that doesn’t copy America or have connections with other organisations that might stand for more then just anti racism?

 

[shoddycollins]

Is it the message being booed or the gesture?

If it’s the gesture maybe everyone in this country can come together and back a different one that doesn’t copy America or have connections with other organisations that might stand for more then just anti racism?

If anyone feels that booing and chanting abuse is an appropriate way to say that they would rather we had our own local way to oppose racism then they need to take a long hard look at themselves

 

[Chris FGR]

Maybe, but what’s needed isn’t gestures, it’s results.

If we could have a joined up campaign with clear targets that everyone on the left and right would be happy to back with no message other then to stamp out racism then surely that would be better? No need for divisive gestures or politics. Just straightforward education and zero tolerance of repeat offenders

 

[shoddycollins]

Maybe, but what’s needed isn’t gestures, it’s results.

If we could have a joined up campaign with clear targets that everyone on the left and right would be happy to back with no message other then to stamp out racism then surely that would be better? No need for divisive gestures or politics. Just straightforward education and zero tolerance of repeat offenders

I get that but it's the gesture many players have chosen, and perhaps they prefer it because of its sporting history. More needs done but hey, if taking the knee and then those who boo being banned means fewer racists in football then it helps a little.

Just being able to have a simple way for people to express that they don't want racism in football, without having to get permission first from the Daily Mail or GB News or whoever is saying its an extremist Marxist symbol is probably a good first step.

 

[Stringy]

I get that but it's the gesture many players have chosen, and perhaps they prefer it because of its sporting history. More needs done but hey, if taking the knee and then those who boo being banned means fewer racists in football then it helps a little.

Just being able to have a simple way for people to express that they don't want racism in football, without having to get permission first from the Daily Mail or GB News or whoever is saying its an extremist Marxist symbol is probably a good first step.

The disagreeing with taking the knee/BLM thing is a really good way of figuring out whose opinion you should never listen to and who you should never hang out with.

 

[shoddycollins]

The disagreeing with taking the knee/BLM thing is a really good way of figuring out whose opinion you should never listen to and who you should never hang out with.

Nothing against Chris, he's definitely not one of the ones who boos, or condones those who do. He's just in my opinion conceding too much ground to them.

Also just saying my piece before Devon lad gets here and gets this thread locked within three minutes of his arrival

 

[Stringy]

Nothing against Chris, he's definitely not one of the ones who boos, or condones those who do. He's just in my opinion conceding too much ground to them.

Also just saying my piece before Devon lad gets here and gets this thread locked within three minutes of his arrival

Agree, I wasn't targeting Chris. I suppose what I'm saying is that those who are arguing that it's gesture politics are usually the supporters of the worst or most apathetic politics imaginable

 

[shoddycollins]

Agree, I wasn't targeting Chris. I suppose what I'm saying is that those who are arguing that it's gesture politics are usually the supporters of the worst or apathetic politics imaginable

Yeah like I say, you don't boo something because you agree with the sentiment but feel it could be better expressed

 

[AdamStag]

Agree, I wasn't targeting Chris. I suppose what I'm saying is that those who are arguing that it's gesture politics are usually the supporters of the worst or most apathetic politics imaginable

that's a pretty fair assumption.

My other pet hate is “all lives matter” it’s like really?

 

[Gassy]

Oh yes, I felt that you really held me to my comment. I didn't feel at all that you were being pedantic/arguing about irrelevant things because you had said a silly thing about a red card

Ok clearly you’re desperate for that last word on the subject for self confirmation that you didn’t actually say what you actually did.

You have it, I hope it makes you feel better.

 

[Stringy]

Ok clearly you’re desperate for that last word on the subject for self confirmation that you didn’t actually say what you actually did.

You have it, I hope it makes you feel better.

You mentioned me by name! Talk about not letting go!

 

[Robshep]

https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/

Co founder Patrisse Khan-Cullors (who’s done pretty well out of it) even describes herself as a ‘trained Marxist’.

I get it’s decentralised and there are many factions etc but this is what people tend to see it as. Some BLM protests were supposedly infiltrated by left wing extremists which gave some an excuse to lump them in together. Stuff about defunding the police didn’t help. Taking the knee has become strongly associated with BLM, not helped by the fact Prem teams literally had it on their shirts to start with when they first took the knee.

So by association a lot of people are connecting those things together, (which they shouldn’t) and coming up with the idea that this is some sort of Marxist thing. Something entirely separate against discrimination can’t be linked in that way and so won’t draw the same reaction, I don’t remember kick it out being booed.

I have just had a superb debate (argument) about this whole subject. I am on the left of the political spectrum but have no time for all this garbage that we now have to put up with.
There are males and females at birth. Whatever you decide you want to be at a later date cannot change biology. This is how it is. I am a life long socialist and all of this bullshit has nothing to do with equality. Racism is a thing that exists and has existed for centuries, it is something that needs to be sorted out. We will never sort out the real problems if we are distracted by this crap.

 

[Robshep]

The Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation is very much a real organisation. It’s not the only one, but it’s the biggest.

Have a listen to the views of Gwen Berry. That is racism.

 

[Robshep]

It wasn't just that game, you could hear it at the England games during the Euros...especially in the group stages...but people who were at the games said it was just a minority of fans who did it and the majority, who presumably supported what the players were doing, just drowned them out.

I disagree, at Prenton Park on saturday there was a bit of booing, a bit of applause and a lot of indifference. I suspect that is how it will be at most games.

 

[Robshep]

Is it the message being booed or the gesture?

If it’s the gesture maybe everyone in this country can come together and back a different one that doesn’t copy America or have connections with other organisations that might stand for more then just anti racism?

If you care that much about it you can contribute to one of the many charities or organisations, either financially or voluntarily, that have spent the last 75 years trying to create equality for non whites. Kneeling down is never going to change a thing. Action brings about change.

 

[Robshep]

I get that but it's the gesture many players have chosen, and perhaps they prefer it because of its sporting history. More needs done but hey, if taking the knee and then those who boo being banned means fewer racists in football then it helps a little.

Just being able to have a simple way for people to express that they don't want racism in football, without having to get permission first from the Daily Mail or GB News or whoever is saying its an extremist Marxist symbol is probably a good first step.

What is the sporting history of kneeling? The only sports that have a history of taking the knee are bowls and curling. Taking the knee historically is associated with gladiators who were mostly slaves and accepting of it.

 

[shoddycollins]

What is the sporting history of kneeling? The only sports that have a history of taking the knee are bowls and curling. Taking the knee historically is associated with gladiators who were mostly slaves and accepting of it.

Because it was first done in its current context by NFL player Colin Kaepernick.

 

[Robshep]

Because it was first done in its current context by NFL player Colin Kaepernick.

In 2018. Is that how far we have gone that 3 years ago is history.

 

[shoddycollins]

There are males and females at birth. Whatever you decide you want to be at a later date cannot change biology. This is how it is. I am a life long socialist and all of this bullshit has nothing to do with equality.

And that is your business why? Or are you one of these people who believes that transgender people exist specifically to wind you up?

Maybe that's why you hate Masi so much.

 

[shoddycollins]

In 2018. Is that how far we have gone that 3 years ago is history.

Stop being such a boring pedant. You're not going to derail everything I've said just because you think the word 'historical' in the context I used it was wrong.

There are plenty of contexts in which the word 'historical' can mean anything in the past.

For example, Tranmere are historically a third tier club

UPDATE: OK so you seem to have liked most of what I said do you're probably not trying to deliberately cast doubt... you're just being really pedantic

 

[Stringy]

I have just had a superb debate (argument) about this whole subject. I am on the left of the political spectrum but have no time for all this garbage that we now have to put up with.
There are males and females at birth. Whatever you decide you want to be at a later date cannot change biology. This is how it is. I am a life long socialist and all of this bullshit has nothing to do with equality. Racism is a thing that exists and has existed for centuries, it is something that needs to be sorted out. We will never sort out the real problems if we are distracted by this crap.

It took a debate to establish that you are born biologically male or female and can't change that? What did you think happened before?