2023/24 League One Playoffs

[masi51]

Santos making errors??? I thought he was the best centre half in the league. Bolton need to massively upgrade on him.

Santos is the best centre half to ever grace lge1 in some games.........The week after he is shocking
I will settle for something inbetween

 

[masi51]

Do Bolton struggle against sides who sit back and frustrate?

Might put some cash on a Oxford 1-0, Brannagan scorecast.

On a side note, I'd probably have Josh Knight on a free from Peterborough at North End, and i'd be happy to snap up one of Connell, Phillips, or Kane from Barnsley.

Oxford sit back and we will hammer them. We struggle when Santos thinks he is Beckanbaur
Great defender but will make two,three errors when he plays that way.
We tend to struggle against teams with a high press ie Barnsley. Get 2-1 3-1 scorecast Bolton/Charles seeing he is a Preston lad

 

[masi51]

Santos making errors??? I thought he was the best centre half in the league. Bolton need to massively upgrade on him.

Very true and you also said there was no good teams in league one............then get relegated
How does that work.

 

[valefan16]

Very true and you also said there was no good teams in league one............then get relegated
How does that work.

Because as any Vale fan will testify we were below even the levels of "no good teams".

 

[Muzzle]

Santos making errors??? I thought he was the best centre half in the league. Bolton need to massively upgrade on him.

Not by me to be honest, he is a good defender, but has a habit of "switching off" and costing goals, which he has done about 5 times this season (costing goals), he' still one of the top defenders, but the best.....not by me

 

[leedsvaliant]

Very true and you also said there was no good teams in league one............then get relegated
How does that work.

I don't think I ever said there was 'no good teams '. I thought it was massively overhyped as this impossible league, way above league 2, which it isn't. We were dreadful for 90% of the season and still nearly took it until the final game. Same the season before.

I stand by what I said, it's as bad a standard at league 1 than I can ever remember. Genuinely can count about 4 decent performances, one of which was Bolton first half at our place. It's a damning indictment of our recruitment and everything about our club that we got relegated from it. Relegation through negligence. We've had much worse squads and didn't even need moderate form to escape.

 

[Pompeyblueboy]

I don't think I ever said there was 'no good teams '. I thought it was massively overhyped as this impossible league, way above league 2, which it isn't. We were dreadful for 90% of the season and still nearly took it until the final game. Same the season before.

I stand by what I said, it's as bad a standard at league 1 than I can ever remember. Genuinely can count about 4 decent performances, one of which was Bolton first half at our place. It's a damning indictment of our recruitment and everything about our club that we got relegated from it. Relegation through negligence. We've had much worse squads and didn't even need moderate form to escape.

You are just the same as any other team that gets relegated -not good enough.
The top teams were miles better than the relegated teams. The same as every other season.
Enjoy your time in L2 and as you remember thats were I predicted you'd end up.
I reckon Bolton will win the Play offs but you never know in a one off game.

 

[masi51]

I don't think I ever said there was 'no good teams '. I thought it was massively overhyped as this impossible league, way above league 2, which it isn't. We were dreadful for 90% of the season and still nearly took it until the final game. Same the season before.

I stand by what I said, it's as bad a standard at league 1 than I can ever remember. Genuinely can count about 4 decent performances, one of which was Bolton first half at our place. It's a damning indictment of our recruitment and everything about our club that we got relegated from it. Relegation through negligence. We've had much worse squads and didn't even need moderate form to escape.

It is way above lge2. The team that destroyed lge 2 from January to May going from 19TH to Third only three are at the club now Jones, Santos and Thomason. That team would not survive in League 1.
Cheltenham came up as Champions they like 75% of clubs who have come up from lge2 survive a season then return to league 2. The last team to do back to back was Burton 2016.
It is now hard to get out of league one due to Big clubs dropping out of the championship.
Forget the promoted clubs troubling the top six next season...It is not Happening
Huddersfield, Birmingham and a Steve Evans Rotherham will be country miles ahead of Stockport, Wrexham and Mansfield.
Throw in the losers of Bolton/Oxford Posh, Barnsley Charlton, Blackpool Wigan and Reading.....Then you are talking the promoted clubs in a league at the bottom with Teams who sole intentions is to finish mid-table

 

[Andy Butler]

It is way above lge2. The team that destroyed lge 2 from January to May going from 19TH to Third only three are at the club now Jones, Santos and Thomason. That team would not survive in League 1.
Cheltenham came up as Champions they like 75% of clubs who have come up from lge2 survive a season then return to league 2. The last team to do back to back was Burton 2016.
It is now hard to get out of league one due to Big clubs dropping out of the championship.
Forget the promoted clubs troubling the top six next season...It is not Happening
Huddersfield, Birmingham and a Steve Evans Rotherham will be country miles ahead of Stockport, Wrexham and Mansfield.
Throw in the losers of Bolton/Oxford Posh, Barnsley Charlton, Blackpool Wigan and Reading.....Then you are talking the promoted clubs in a league at the bottom with Teams who sole intentions is to finish mid-table

Stevenage nearly finished in the playoffs so I can see one of Wrexham, Stockport or Mansfield doing something similar or potentially better

 

[GeneralLee]

I don't think I ever said there was 'no good teams '. I thought it was massively overhyped as this impossible league, way above league 2, which it isn't. We were dreadful for 90% of the season and still nearly took it until the final game. Same the season before.

I stand by what I said, it's as bad a standard at league 1 than I can ever remember. Genuinely can count about 4 decent performances, one of which was Bolton first half at our place. It's a damning indictment of our recruitment and everything about our club that we got relegated from it. Relegation through negligence. We've had much worse squads and didn't even need moderate form to escape.

This is a long one but...

It certainly isn't the strongest it's ever been, however you can be in no doubt that the gap between the top three, the next four-five play off competing sides compared further with a couple more and then the rest of the pack is significant. It's also not really a 'get your recruitment right and you'll basically be in with a chance of promotion' either. Speaking as a supporter of a club that has largely secured top half/flirted with the play offs, I can attest to how difficult that is. We have seen some really good players at OUFC and our transfer activity has been pretty good (I think someone released figures semi-recently and OUFC have sold more talent that any club in recent years) it's somewhat in the mould of P'boro. Yet despite this, both clubs (hopefully that changes next week!) are League One mainstays. The difference in squad depth, quality and personnel is a completely different level; if you look at Bolton's bench compared to our own next week, you'll see that. Employing a profitable player trading model doesn't even guarantee you a play off position.

We have the budget to challenge the play off contenders now without doing much more and our recruitment has largely matched that to date... And our recruitment is very good (in scouting circles clubs at this level and above other clubs have begun to suss our model hence why we are somewhat less successful than in previous seasons). From a personal point of view you also flavour the quality of opponent from watching games and you know when you've been outclassed (Bolton away/Derby at home). I can be honest and say in some games we look scintillating. In others? Clueless. That's where we are; quite good, but not good enough to trouble the better sides. My feeling is that we go into games against teams beneath us in the table and largely expect a result most of the time. It doesn't always go our way however we are largely rarely troubled in a big way by bottom-half sides. That's not exclusively the case nor arrogance, enough seasons in this league dictates that view. I don't think our support nor players feel worried facing sides beneath OUFC in the table. Why? Those sides simply don't possess the necessary quality to deliver against better sides consistently. The difference in quality between a Derby front line against a Shrewsbury front line (no disrespect intended to the Shrews) is substantial. Yet that conversation could be levelled right across the pitch; Shrewsbury aren't exactly bad (Shrews are a bad example as they are generally a reasonable lower/mid-table side so apologies Shrews fans!), yet that's not a case of bad recruitment, Shrewsbury are simply fishing in different waters and can't compete with a Derby. In many respects, we are the same only a bit higher in the table. We might from time-to-time compete for the odd signing but 9 times out of 10, Derby would beat us to most signings and that reflects on the pitch.

It's no coincidence that basically the bigger sides (barring the odd club like a Charlton) who buck the trend come out on top. Portsmouth, Derby, Bolton are arguably the biggest clubs in the division and finished first, second and third. The gap between those sides and say, Burton is massive (and Burton weren't relegated!). When we faced Burton twice, the difference in levels was scary. They looked like a poor Conference North/South side, and I'm being kind.

The games against the likes of Burton, Port Vale, Fleetwood etc were miles apart. For large spells (and for whatever reason) it felt like a poor side 'having a go'. I'm not sure what you are expecting and perhaps Port Vale fixtures are an anomaly in that they dominate games but failed to secure results? That being said the difference in quality was largely leagues apart, rather than 10-15 places apart in the same league. Port Vale looked like a poor League Two side against OUFC (and we were hardly in form at that time and displayed tactical naivety in abundance in that game), yet we still won with some ease.

 

[Conker]

I think the financial moves Wrexham and to a slight lesser extent Stockport are going to make will surprise quite a few in L1. Still got to make the recruitment right obviously.

 

[AdamStag]

Stevenage nearly finished in the playoffs so I can see one of Wrexham, Stockport or Mansfield doing something similar or potentially better

Wrexham certainly with all that disney shit, their promotion from league 2 last season was inevitable as their budget dwarfed anyone else’s, that they didn’t win the league shows how well stockport did.

I view stockport pretty much on par with mansfield in reality, both teams have sound managers and would have decentish budget for sat midtable/lower midtable. The first thing from a mansfield perspective is to get our feet under the table and go from there.

 

[Conker]

Wrexham certainly with all that disney shit, their promotion from league 2 last season was inevitable as their budget dwarfed anyone else’s, that they didn’t win the league shows how well stockport did.

I view stockport pretty much on par with mansfield in reality, both teams have sound managers and would have decentish budget for sat midtable/lower midtable. The first thing from a mansfield perspective is to get our feet under the table and go from there.

I just get the feeling the thirst for success is much more urgent at Stockport than Mansfield, which is not a bad thing but it shows with the difference with what our respective owners are willing to pay for players, and a lot of that boils to down to what type of manager we have in Clough. I think they do have a bit about them in terms of overall scouting and recruitment, I expect them to do well this summer.

Stockport will still spend a ton and even though Wrexham will spend more I think the former are nicely ahead and I would back them to finish above the latter in the coming season.

 

[Stocky]

Our manager confirmed our budget will be mid table, possibly slightly lower.

We had the third or fourth biggest budget in League Two. Wrexham and Gillingham definitley higher. Think MK Dons were close if not higher but they trimmed a lot by loaning out some big earners in Jan like Leko and Eisa so I think we may have ended up having a bigger budget in the 2nd half of the season and them a bigger budget in the 1st half of it.

 

[Conker]

Our manager confirmed our budget will be mid table, possibly slightly lower.

We had the third or fourth biggest budget in League Two. Wrexham and Gillingham definitley higher. Think MK Dons were close if not higher but they trimmed a lot by loaning out some big earners in Jan like Leko and Eisa so I think we may have ended up having a bigger budget in the 2nd half of the season and them a bigger budget in the 1st half of it.

Manager doesn’t know where his budget will sit yet until they get the table from the EFL unless he’s doing a us and guessing! Look at the table this season, I would sit Mansfield mid-table at a guess never mind Stockport.

Regarding Gillingham I suppose that’s possible but it’s hard to gauge considering the sort of money you offered Powell.

 

[valefan16]

This is a long one but...

It certainly isn't the strongest it's ever been, however you can be in no doubt that the gap between the top three, the next four-five play off competing sides compared further with a couple more and then the rest of the pack is significant. It's also not really a 'get your recruitment right and you'll basically be in with a chance of promotion' either. Speaking as a supporter of a club that has largely secured top half/flirted with the play offs, I can attest to how difficult that is. We have seen some really good players at OUFC and our transfer activity has been pretty good (I think someone released figures semi-recently and OUFC have sold more talent that any club in recent years) it's somewhat in the mould of P'boro. Yet despite this, both clubs (hopefully that changes next week!) are League One mainstays. The difference in squad depth, quality and personnel is a completely different level; if you look at Bolton's bench compared to our own next week, you'll see that. Employing a profitable player trading model doesn't even guarantee you a play off position.

We have the budget to challenge the play off contenders now without doing much more and our recruitment has largely matched that to date... And our recruitment is very good (in scouting circles clubs at this level and above other clubs have begun to suss our model hence why we are somewhat less successful than in previous seasons). From a personal point of view you also flavour the quality of opponent from watching games and you know when you've been outclassed (Bolton away/Derby at home). I can be honest and say in some games we look scintillating. In others? Clueless. That's where we are; quite good, but not good enough to trouble the better sides. My feeling is that we go into games against teams beneath us in the table and largely expect a result most of the time. It doesn't always go our way however we are largely rarely troubled in a big way by bottom-half sides. That's not exclusively the case nor arrogance, enough seasons in this league dictates that view. I don't think our support nor players feel worried facing sides beneath OUFC in the table. Why? Those sides simply don't possess the necessary quality to deliver against better sides consistently. The difference in quality between a Derby front line against a Shrewsbury front line (no disrespect intended to the Shrews) is substantial. Yet that conversation could be levelled right across the pitch; Shrewsbury aren't exactly bad (Shrews are a bad example as they are generally a reasonable lower/mid-table side so apologies Shrews fans!), yet that's not a case of bad recruitment, Shrewsbury are simply fishing in different waters and can't compete with a Derby. In many respects, we are the same only a bit higher in the table. We might from time-to-time compete for the odd signing but 9 times out of 10, Derby would beat us to most signings and that reflects on the pitch.

It's no coincidence that basically the bigger sides (barring the odd club like a Charlton) who buck the trend come out on top. Portsmouth, Derby, Bolton are arguably the biggest clubs in the division and finished first, second and third. The gap between those sides and say, Burton is massive (and Burton weren't relegated!). When we faced Burton twice, the difference in levels was scary. They looked like a poor Conference North/South side, and I'm being kind.

The games against the likes of Burton, Port Vale, Fleetwood etc were miles apart. For large spells (and for whatever reason) it felt like a poor side 'having a go'. I'm not sure what you are expecting and perhaps Port Vale fixtures are an anomaly in that they dominate games but failed to secure results? That being said the difference in quality was largely leagues apart, rather than 10-15 places apart in the same league. Port Vale looked like a poor League Two side against OUFC (and we were hardly in form at that time and displayed tactical naivety in abundance in that game), yet we still won with some ease.

The way I see it and was discussed on the Ale and Vale POD is League One is split into 2, you have a top 8-10 and the rest and the gulf is at that point, the top sides are all failed big clubs (ex Prem) and a couple of mid sized ones that have a decent budget or have built up over time.

The rest is much of a muchness of relatively poorer sides. Probably a bigger gap between the top sides in L1 an the rest than between L2 and the bottom half of L1.

I dont think the top sides this year are as good as last season, Ipswich lets be honest would waltz this season's league and Plymouth did well to beat them to the title but the gap is still there... as it would be as you have a large gulf in budgets between most of the top sides and the rest.

When we played Oxford at home we were terrible, arguably the worst we'd been in a poor last few months of the season and don't recall us ever "having a go" we were done, the battling Vale side with some added star dust of Ollie and Alfie that won at Oxford was long gone by then!

 

[BRFC_Gas]

We usually do alright against the higher teams, but are always on hand to give the strugglers of L1 a helping hand, as has been the case the past 2 seasons we have been back here.

 

[masi51]

I think the financial moves Wrexham and to a slight lesser extent Stockport are going to make will surprise quite a few in L1. Still got to make the recruitment right obviously.

Financial moves.....Do your research Huddersfield owner is worth a reputable 6 Billion
The owners of Wrexham and Stockport may be loaded when they have come up two leagues but unless they bring in a full new team they wont challenge next year

 

[Conker]

Financial moves.....Do your research Huddersfield owner is worth a reputable 6 Billion
The owners of Wrexham and Stockport may be loaded when they have come up two leagues but unless they bring in a full new team they wont challenge next year

Why isn’t those billions being spent to be in the premier league then? I never suggested they would spend more than Huddersfield nor they would challenge, so next time do your research and read the actual post if you are going to quote it.

 

[GeneralLee]

The way I see it and was discussed on the Ale and Vale POD is League One is split into 2, you have a top 8-10 and the rest and the gulf is at that point, the top sides are all failed big clubs (ex Prem) and a couple of mid sized ones that have a decent budget or have built up over time.

The rest is much of a muchness of relatively poorer sides. Probably a bigger gap between the top sides in L1 an the rest than between L2 and the bottom half of L1.

I dont think the top sides this year are as good as last season, Ipswich lets be honest would waltz this season's league and Plymouth did well to beat them to the title but the gap is still there... as it would be as you have a large gulf in budgets between most of the top sides and the rest.

When we played Oxford at home we were terrible, arguably the worst we'd been in a poor last few months of the season and don't recall us ever "having a go" we were done, the battling Vale side with some added star dust of Ollie and Alfie that won at Oxford was long gone by then!

Even the difference between ourselves in fifth against the top three I'd argue is quite a jump in quality too. Equally, the bottom six against mid-table sides offers a similar leap. The league in that respect could be argued splits into four, however I appreciate if you're chasing the play off pack that argument only becomes apparent once you experience it consistently whereas if you're at the wrong end of the table then the top 10 can only beat what's in front of them.

Watching OUFC in League Two in the early-mid 2000's was basically a team with one or two players better than everyone else gave a side a bit more confidence and they'd win games. League One comparatively today is a much greater yet complicated challenge.

 

[masi51]

Why isn’t those billions being spent to be in the premier league then? I never suggested they would spend more than Huddersfield nor they would challenge, so next time do your research and read the actual post if you are going to quote it.

Because Money does not guarantee you anything.......Look at Chelsea
Footballers are greedy the pool of players available to lge 1 teams will have the highest paid and best players heading to Huddersfield and Birmingham.
Wrexham wont have first pick on players come the summer and there squad are nowhere near good enough to trouble the top six next season.

And he invested heavily in the Winter window.....Which was not enough to save them

 

[BRFC_Gas]

Because Money does not guarantee you anything.......Look at Chelsea
Footballers are greedy the pool of players available to lge 1 teams will have the highest paid and best players heading to Huddersfield and Birmingham.
Wrexham wont have first pick on players come the summer and there squad are nowhere near good enough to trouble the top six next season.

And he invested heavily in the Winter window.....Which was not enough to save them

Maybe not in the top two leagues but I think it does in L1 and L2.
Its no surprise the top 3 supported teams in L1 this season finished in the top 3

 

[masi51]

Maybe not in the top two leagues but I think it does in L1 and L2.
Its no surprise the top 3 supported teams in L1 this season finished in the top 3

I agree, Wrexham, Mansfield and Stockport will/should be ok next season but none of them will trouble the top 6
I guarantee one if not two will be relegated back to lge2 in the next couple of seasons and i do not hold out much hope of any of the four teams in the play-offs of surviving next season.....Wrexham obviously have the best chance of pushing on and getting to the Championship but it wont be next season.
I am confident i can name 5 of the top 6 next season and teams have yet to sign anyone

 

[Pilot_Phonic]

I can categorically say I will not expect any form of promotion. I;ve not seen 1 fan say we are going through to the championship. We are no longer a big fish in a small pond so to speak, but playing the likes of Charlton, Brum, Huddersfield will feel like an FA cup tie. Yes, we do need players, but quite frankly we desperately need the off field stuff sorting like a new stand, training ground and more staff across the board before we should go for promotion. We would be able to compete at the top in time with wages, as our commercial income is insanely high (last year our CEO said we made £20m but accounts say £11m, but accounts don't factor in our tour of the US). The fan base we have in the US is huge so we will still rake in money so we can compete.

Rob & Ryan are dabbling with other clubs/sports so they can get more investors coming on board. Shrewd businessmen who can roll with the big timers in the financial world.

 

[Luke Imp]

We've always been in that 13th-18th group budget wise whilst in L1.

 

[denzel ecfc]

I can categorically say I will not expect any form of promotion. I;ve not seen 1 fan say we are going through to the championship. We are no longer a big fish in a small pond so to speak, but playing the likes of Charlton, Brum, Huddersfield will feel like an FA cup tie. Yes, we do need players, but quite frankly we desperately need the off field stuff sorting like a new stand, training ground and more staff across the board before we should go for promotion. We would be able to compete at the top in time with wages, as our commercial income is insanely high (last year our CEO said we made £20m but accounts say £11m, but accounts don't factor in our tour of the US). The fan base we have in the US is huge so we will still rake in money so we can compete.

Rob & Ryan are dabbling with other clubs/sports so they can get more investors coming on board. Shrewd businessmen who can roll with the big timers in the financial world.

Haven't you just had a new stand?

 

[AdamStag]

We've always been in that 13th-18th group budget wise whilst in L1.

I’d imagine that’s where ours would be,
more or less

 

[denzel ecfc]

Stevenage nearly finished in the playoffs so I can see one of Wrexham, Stockport or Mansfield doing something similar or potentially better

Stevenage fell away in the second half of the season as teams worked them out.
I'm pretty sure teams know what to expect from Wrexham and Stockport in particular so they may not start as well.
But of course they could still buy up half the Championship so things can change

 

[IzzyFook]

Haven't you just had a new stand?

There's been all sorts of complications with red tape, enviromental issues, etc....so R&R have installed a temporary stand in the mean time to up the capacity a bit to 12.5k. Issues still not completely resolved so the temp stand is going to be a more temp stand for the foreseeable!

 

[denzel ecfc]

There's been all sorts of complications with red tape, enviromental issues, etc....so R&R have installed a temporary stand in the mean time to up the capacity a bit to 12.5k. Issues still not completely resolved so the temp stand is going to be a more temp stand for the foreseeable!

Thanks, I wasn't aware. At least you have something in common with Rovers