3rd October 2020 Fixtures

[shoddycollins]

very few Academies pay, but without them we simply do not have a game.
To ease the financial burden in the bottom two leagues there should be a minimum of at least 5 players in every match day squad of 18 players

Problem with this is when it becomes impossible to hang on to any decent players from your academy. The general direction it's going in is to where if a player is good enough to play in league Two, someone will take them off you, often before they've even made their debut. Those four players in the Premier League I mentioned from our academy, only two of them ever played a game for us.

If we had to name five players in the squad who were from our academy then we'd be naming a lot of players who are just not good enough and only in the squad to check boxes, until a new set of graduates come through, we release the first batch and the cycle repeats; meanwhile all these players the Premier league are stockpiling will no longer be able to go out on loan because we won't have space in the squad for them.

Having lower league teams using their academies to bring their own first teamers through might be a noble desire but forcing lower league teams to play academy players without reforming the transfer system won't help us.

 

[Devon_Lad]

There's clubs such as Wycombe who sacked off their academy because it wasn't worth the money.

As did Yeovil. Look where that got them in the end. Wycombe are literally following it step by step.

What should happen to resolve this all, is for clubs to get compensated properly for academy players, rather than being mugged off by the prem and getting them for peanuts. That way they will be able to pay for themselves

 

[Chris FGR]

‘Ark at Vegan Village FC giving it the Bertie Big Bollocks.

Tbf, we are massive. The other weekend we got a bigger crowd for a league 2 game then the whole Prem got put together.

 

[Casey]

Masi51 you need to look at the EPPP.

If you have a 14 year old Leo Messi at your academy now Man Utd can come in, at 48 hours notice, and poach him for a grand total of £100k and you only get the final £50k once he has played 100 premier league games.

Once a kid plays in the first team the rules change which is why I think the Exeter youth set up is somehow being ignored.

Casey

 

[hellogregory]

We've got Taylor Charters who came on as a sub yesterday,

And Gavin Reilly.

 

[Trapdoor]

Our academy is not ignored, we have EPL scouts attending all the time. We just try to play these kids in the first team when they are 15...

 

[Boz]

Think we had a similar issue to Barrow when we got back into the EFL and had a few games with only 6 subs. We were able to get round it initially by using Cole Stockton a former academy product, [Morecambe must have improved him no end btw, can’t recall him winning any penalties for us] then later Luke Pilling as reserve keeper. This season we’re reliant on Joe Murphy, academy product from 2 decades ago, though Walker-Rice and a couple of first year pros have made the bench. However since the rules on academies were changed to the advantage of the big clubs, it’s understandable why many don’t find them economic to run

 

[Devon_Lad]

As we are on the topic of academies... This is a hatrick hero appreciation post. What a player.

Mansfield must be kicking themselves they didn't sign him for a few 100k from us.

 

[masi51]

Jesus christ......i have opened a hornets nest here. Casey may i ask where your players have come from ?????

You want to sign these 22/27 year olds who will come straight into your first team......Who has coached learned these players from the age of 8 put time money into there development

 

[Casey]

Jesus christ......i have opened a hornets nest here. Casey may i ask where your players have come from ?????

You want to sign these 22/27 year olds who will come straight into your first team......Who has coached learned these players from the age of 8 put time money into there development

Well not quite the stealers of other clubs talent you seem to think.

We tend to pick up players who have been released by other clubs or free transfers from lower divisions. For instance our back line yesterday was (gk) Morris quit playing to take up a coaching role with us but ended up playing. (Rb) Released (cb) released (cb) non-league (lb) non-league...actually Ards in Northern Ireland!.

In fact the only two players in our squad we may have had competition to sign are Jake Hessenthaler and Ashley Nadesan...Nichols maybe but he hadnt scored for 18 months or so.

Welcome to the bottom.

Casey

 

[masi51]

Well not quite the stealers of other clubs talent you seem to think.

We tend to pick up players who have been released by other clubs or free transfers from lower divisions. For instance our back line yesterday was (gk) Morris quit playing to take up a coaching role with us but ended up playing. (Rb) Released (cb) released (cb) non-league (lb) non-league...actually Ards in Northern Ireland!.

In fact the only two players in our squad we may have had competition to sign are Jake Hessenthaler and Ashley Nadesan...Nichols maybe but he hadnt scored for 18 months or so.

Welcome to the bottom.

Casey

I still dont think you are getting my point....Yes they have been released but they have been coached to a high standard.
Without academies you would be scouting on park pitches again and they would not be good enough to play

 

[shoddycollins]

I still dont think you are getting my point....Yes they have been released but they have been coached to a high standard.
Without academies you would be scouting on park pitches again and they would not be good enough to play

You're still getting used to lower league football huh. Academies are important but clubs down here rarely see the benefit from them.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

I still dont think you are getting my point....Yes they have been released but they have been coached to a high standard.
Without academies you would be scouting on park pitches again and they would not be good enough to play

Without academies snapping up all the semi-decent talents and PL/Championships being able to poach prospects for a pittance, every club could have a well-stocked youth team and bring through their own talents - like the olden days. The big clubs don't deserve credit for "coaching" them - that would happen at clubs lower down the leagues to a similar standard, but with competitive football thrown in earlier.

You've seen what a pointless shit show introducing the under 23 teams into the cup competitions has been? That's the result of the hoarding of talents at the top.

 

[Luke Imp]

Simple.......no team should be allowed into the football league without a academy.
I would even suggest 5 players must be in every match day squad from academies
No use teams bleating to the premier league wanting bailing out when they overspend on there first team squads

That's clearly bollocks. There's no funding for academy/youth set-ups in the NL like there is in the EFL, so where's the money to run that going to come from?

 

[Luke Imp]

I can’t even bring myself to watch the highlights and that penalty decision again.

Knew I recognised the ref - Sam Allison. Highly regarded, always gets penalty decisions correct, rightly promoted and one of Master D favourite NL referees...

 

[Luke Imp]

Think we had a similar issue to Barrow when we got back into the EFL and had a few games with only 6 subs. We were able to get round it initially by using Cole Stockton a former academy product, [Morecambe must have improved him no end btw, can’t recall him winning any penalties for us] then later Luke Pilling as reserve keeper. This season we’re reliant on Joe Murphy, academy product from 2 decades ago, though Walker-Rice and a couple of first year pros have made the bench. However since the rules on academies were changed to the advantage of the big clubs, it’s understandable why many don’t find them economic to run

Likewise with us.

We had Lee Frecklington come back halfway through our first season and Ellis Chapman. It's a little easier now because they tweaked the rules for this season where it's classed as home-grown if they've been with the Club for a year by the age of 18 or something. Can't remember exactly how it is.

 

[masi51]

That's clearly bollocks. There's no funding for academy/youth set-ups in the NL like there is in the EFL, so where's the money to run that going to come from?

That's clearly bollocks. There's no funding for academy/youth set-ups in the NL like there is in the EFL, so where's the money to run that going to come from?

Not talking about national leagues....Once you win promotion to league 2 you then have 12 months grace to put a Academy in place.
And there should be funding from the Premier league down because everyone benefits.

 

[Devon_Lad]

Like I said earlier, compensation is the problem. If we can get rich clubs to pay a fair share for youth players, then every academy would pay for itself.

Chelsea were fussing over a few mil for Ethan Ampadu when they bought him from us. We were asking for 3m I believe, they wanted to pay just shy of 1m. It went to a tribunal in the end and we got £1.3m up front with the potential for it to go up to £2.5m. He was already a Welsh international by the time he left us and was wanted by Liverpool, Arsenal, United etc.

The day he played one game for Chelsea, that price tag was already 10x the maximum amount of money we could get.

The same transfer window, Chelsea spent tens of millions on other players. What's an extra 1-2m to them, to benefit the hard work and effort we put in?

 

[masi51]

Like I said earlier, compensation is the problem. If we can get rich clubs to pay a fair share for youth players, then every academy would pay for itself.

Chelsea were fussing over a few mil for Ethan Ampadu when they bought him from us. We were asking for 3m I believe, they wanted to pay just shy of 1m. It went to a tribunal in the end and we got £1.3m up front with the potential for it to go up to £2.5m. He was already a Welsh international by the time he left us and was wanted by Liverpool, Arsenal, United etc.

The day he played one game for Chelsea, that price tag was already 10x the maximum amount of money we could get.

The same transfer window, Chelsea spent tens of millions on other players. What's an extra 1-2m to them, to benefit the hard work and effort we put in?

I think we both agree on this. Nothing new with Chelsea trying to get players from a English club cheap. they had fFive ex Bolton. Though Alonso left Bolton for Sunderland before rocking up at Chelsea.
Top of my head we got £3m for Ben Haim £5m Gudjonnson £7.5 Cahill and £15m for Anelka

 

[Luke Imp]

Not talking about national leagues....Once you win promotion to league 2 you then have 12 months grace to put a Academy in place.
And there should be funding from the Premier league down because everyone benefits.

You didn't say that initially, you said they shouldn't be allowed into the EFL without one.

 

[Casey]

Masi51; you didn't get my point either. We had an academy (ask Lincoln fans if they think Harry Anderson is any good) but we closed it when we realised it was going to cost somewhere in the region of £1million a year and if we were lucky we might get £40k for a player every couple of years.

As for looking at park football for players we are not casting our net quite that low but we got money from Plymouth for an ex Dulwich Hamlet player and just transferred an ex Hendon Town player to Southend and our main striker was spotted playing for Horley Town.

Still, this is off topic for this thread.

Casey

 

[shoddycollins]

Masi51; you didn't get my point either. We had an academy (ask Lincoln fans if they think Harry Anderson is any good) but we closed it when we realised it was going to cost somewhere in the region of £1million a year and if we were lucky we might get £40k for a player every couple of years.

As for looking at park football for players we are not casting our net quite that low but we got money from Plymouth for an ex Dulwich Hamlet player and just transferred an ex Hendon Town player to Southend and our main striker was spotted playing for Horley Town.

Still, this is off topic for this thread.

Casey

Well it all came from our observation that Barrow only had six subs on their bench on Saturday, and since the games are now over might as well continue to discuss the farce that is the way the FA/EFL treat academies.

 

[Conker]

Premier league clubs are the greediest you will come across, the fees they expect to send their young lads on loan down here are huge, that should be banned.

 

[hellogregory]

Carlisle United have put in an appeal for Aaron Hayden’s red card against Barrow.

Really don’t see the point. Whether it was done in a malicious way or not, it’s a definite red. There’s no way that is getting overturned.

 

[Andy Proctor]

In games where we have all the possession buy cant create many chances I dont know why we dont just try a few long range shots from 25 yards out. If you hit 5 or 6 of them a game surely one of them would be half decent.

 

[valefan16]

In games where we have all the possession buy cant create many chances I dont know why we dont just try a few long range shots from 25 yards out. If you hit 5 or 6 of them a game surely one of them would be half decent.

Thats where we miss Bennett he’d shoot from anywhere!

 

[shoddycollins]

In games where we have all the possession buy cant create many chances I dont know why we dont just try a few long range shots from 25 yards out. If you hit 5 or 6 of them a game surely one of them would be half decent.

But then you'll look at the shots that sailed harmlessly over from 25 yards and wonder whether you spurned the opportunity to craft a better chance. It's all hindsight.

 

[hellogregory]

Our appeal against Aaron Hayden’s red card against barrow has been successful.

Really surprised by that.

 

[shoddycollins]

Our appeal against Aaron Hayden’s red card against barrow has been successful.

Really surprised by that.

I'm not, think it was clear that it wasn't a kick out.

 

[hellogregory]

I'm not, think it was clear that it wasn't a kick out.

But he literally pushed his studs up against the guys legs.

Nott intentionally malicious but I just thought it wasn’t enough of a clear and obvious error.