After Coronavirus - What next for league football? (poll)

[Indian Dan]

That’s what makes it a farce. Almost all our remaining games are against ‘going nowhere’ sides. How is the integrity of the league being maintained if we have to play sides that are nowhere near full strength - as we may be as well.

 

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Will the bookies pay out on the current positions if it's ended now or will they be refunding? Is there any precedence to this in football or any other sport?

 

[Vanni]

Indian Dan -

Yep, that is my main objection to resuming play as most of the sides would be much changed and I don't see how that would be fair on the sides with something to play for; especially when gd is taken into account.

edit - if Swindon's remaining games are against the going nowhere sides, then that means they've already met the stronger sides, and surely there's nothing wrong with that. Rather the opposite in fact.

 

[Indian Dan]

Will the bookies pay out on the current positions if it's ended now or will they be refunding? Is there any precedence to this in football or any other sport?

Good point. I’m very close to a big payout - £20k+ . If the season is voided so will my bet. If the leagues are finalised hopefully they’ll pay out (if things go well)

 

[SteveD12]

Yes, you are. Makes no difference to your club who will miss out on nothing.

Id like to think I wouldn't give a different answer if we were second

 

[Laker]

If we are going to end the season now then I don’t think anyone should be relegated. You can relegate sides who hadn’t finished their seasons and still could have got out of it, however remote that was.

I’d go ppg home and away average to determine automatic promotion places only, no play offs, not relegate anyone and then go 22/24/24/22 for a season then adjust the season after.

I’d personally prefer the season to finish but clubs with nothing to play for will just release their players (I’d be pissed off if mine didn’t) and therefore it’d make a farce of the competition.

However I’d also add that if we don’t kick off til December time then fitting in a full season in 20/21 might be impossible and I can only see regionalisation working in order to get a “season’s” fixtures in.

 

[Indian Dan]

But why should basket case clubs heading for certain relegation be reprieved and benefit hugely when clubs who’ve are having a good season and in with a shout of autos and/or play offs be so harshly penalised?

Bolton and Southend - huge gain
Cheltenham and Exeter - huge loss

How’s that fair?

 

[Laker]

Because they haven’t been relegated and those other clubs haven’t been promoted. I’m uneasy about clubs being promoted at all as they haven’t actually achieved it over a full season but it does seem fairer than not doing it at all. But those in 4th and 5th in our division certainly haven’t done enough to “deserve” promotion.

Edit: you shouldn’t relegate a team just because they are a basket case. Macclesfield have been a basket case this year but we certainly shouldn’t relegate them because of it.

And on your point of fairness, some of this is going to be unfair. But that’s rather unimportant compared to the pandemic itself.

 

[Indian Dan]

My basket case examples were Bolton and Southend from L1. How can Bolton’s deserved punishment be expunged and they remain in L1 at the expense of a ‘normal’ well run club like, say, Exeter not replacing them. Southend have routinely acquired regular winding up orders by not paying HMRC - seemingly a part of their business plan.

Macclesfield have regularly not paid players on time - surely a prerequisite for basket case status.

Anyway, this crisis is going to shake a lot of clubs right out of the footballing tree - I just pray some of the good, decent ones aren’t some of them.

 

[Laker]

If you’re promoting 4th then you should promote 5th, 6th and 7th too as 4th place gains the same reward in our division as 7th. So if you’re putting 7 teams up then I assume you want to relegate a similar number? So which ones are you picking and why?

Automatic places are the ones who can argue they wouldn’t have had the “ordeal” of the play offs to go through. 4th to 7th can’t argue that, I’m fact they’d only have a 25% of promotion (and a 75% chance of not being promoted) therefore promoting them is ridiculous.

If you want to relegate teams who haven’t actually “earned” relegation then you’re opening yourself up to legal claims left, right and centre. My suggestion was the best compromise.

And in Bolton’s case or any others with point deductions then I think they should roll over to next season, as they would if a team entered admin after being relegated ordinarily.

 

[Indian Dan]

4 teams get promoted from L2 and 4 teams get relegated from L1 (the Bury situation notwithstanding). That’s how it’s always been.

Promote the top 4 from L2 and relegate the bottom 3 from L1 - any which way it’s decided.

Seems simple and fair enough to me

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

The way I see it, as more deserving as Cheltenham and Exeter probably would be of League One status over those two basket cases, at least one and possibly two of the current top five would be in this league next season.

I was in total favour of relegation but then I've seen the top two divisions and you can't possibly do it. And I believe Bolton, Southend and Stevenage are very worthy of relegation. Tranmere and the other six affected at the top are less so. If the season was to be continued at a later date, Bolton, Southend and Stevenage would be relegated in 2 or 3 weeks. The same can't be said about the others. As for Southend's business model, Rick Parry's proposal of instant points deductions for unpaid wages looks set to come in next season, so I'm pretty sure their days as a league club are numbered unless their owner sells up or stops playing the system.

22/24/24/22 is the only way to go if the season isn't completed. It's the fairest compromise even if it means those in playoff places lose out. It's gutting really because the L1 and L2 promotion races were looking very wide open as well.

As for next season, if this one can't be concluded and promotions were to occur, then I think a single round robin of 21 games (assuming the league is 22) would be fairer to keep the promotion places as they are. Regionalisation would cause a scenario where you might have 5th place in an 11 team league gaining promotion. A single round robin rewards the more consistent teams and you can have a playoff tournament with stronger teams rather than two weaker playoffs with teams who'd never have made it in a normal season. The only problem is some would play 11 games at home with some only playing 10. But as a one off, I think most clubs wouldn't mind if it came down to it.

 

[valefan16]

Do you mean whatever points you got against the teams earlier in the season would be what you got against them now? So we beat carlise earlier but lost to Newport so that would be 3 points.

Yes to factor in opponent difficulty rather than PPG which favours teams which have a hard run in still to play.

 

[valefan16]

Some interesting ideas.

If current standings aren't used then overall PPG is the best of the initially avoidable circumstances. I think home and away PPG complicates it slightly though and I wouldn't be in favour of that.

I'm staunchly opposed to "doubling the earlier season result" though. We beat Morecambe at home 5-0 and drew with them away 1-1. Were they to remain on our fixture list, it's totally unfair to give them a 5-0 loss on paper based on that given we're their bogey ground. They've scabbed a point off us in 3 of our last 5 visits there and were very unlucky not to get a point in the two games they lost. Conversely, on a post-war record home game winning run, I would've fancied us to avenge our 4-1 loss at Northampton which is a horrendous bogey ground for us with a win at Gresty Road. It's a very unfair way of resolving things because there are far too many variables to consider in the first place.

I've seen a lot more people call for the 22/24/24/22 idea of promotion, no playoffs and no relegation though. There's also growing murmurs Pan-European and international football competition could be put on hiatus for a season which contrasts with UEFA declaring their desire to finish the CL and EL in August. So the PL could fit in the extra games were a full season to be possible. Although I think we'll be looking at a single round-robin next year and no cups bar the FA Cup as opposed to the usual double.

You’ve summed up the problem there... too many variables which counts for almost all solutions.

Even finishing it may have some issues such as contracts etc.

Clubs don’t overly want to play behind closed doors although if ifollow money may help clubs a bit if streamed but may be a situation where we just lose a whole season and end up finishing this in early 2021 if a vaccine didn’t come in until then.

Aside from testing each player and quarantining them at camps for a couple of months and playing without risk of infection nothing seems imminent. Such as using the East Midlands idea for the Prem with clubs based at St George’s.

 

[Boletus Edulis]

Tongue firmly in cheek, how about a vote to decide who is relegated? So each club in a division has a vote who they thinks deserves relegation?

 

[Camborne Gills]

Tongue firmly in cheek, how about a vote to decide who is relegated? So each club in a division has a vote who they thinks deserves relegation?

PL; Assuming Norwich are done for, then Bournemouth for having a 3rd Division stadium and West Ham as it will piss my ex-partner off
Champ; Swop Barnsley for Wigan
L1; No contest, Franchise
L2; Macclesfield

 

[Luke Imp]

Our Chief Exec was on the radio yesterday and he was saying he'd spoken to most of the L1 and some of the L2 Chairmen/Chief Execs and there's very little appetite amongst those to play any games beyond 31st July.

June 30th is the end of contracts but, and I'm assuming most know this anyway, if said player hasn't found another Club by 31st July then his previous Club pay him in July as well so that wouldn't take as much messing about with contracts.

 

[Super_horns]

Lee Bowyer was on Talksport saying players out of contract then might refuse to play or not bother trying.

 

[Indian Dan]

If players are OOC are they still insured? Those players who were looking to move on to pastures new this summer may well have to stay put and accept virtually any contract from their existing club - if they still want them, of course.

Whatever financial pressures clubs feel should be significantly eased next season when they can really put the squeeze on wages - as long as the club still exists by then!

 

[Boletus Edulis]

PL; Assuming Norwich are done for, then Bournemouth for having a 3rd Division stadium and West Ham as it will piss my ex-partner off
Champ; Swop Barnsley for Wigan
L1; No contest, Franchise
L2; Macclesfield

Think your vote for Macclesfield is wasted. Can’t see them existing when we start again.

 

[Camborne Gills]

Lee Bowyer was on Talksport saying players out of contract then might refuse to play or not bother trying.

So what is Southend's excuse?

 

[Indian Dan]

So, what’s people thoughts on the number of clubs that will not survive this out of the bottom 2 leagues?

I reckon - 6

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

So, what’s people thoughts on the number of clubs that will not survive this out of the bottom 2 leagues?

I reckon - 6

Bolton - Fuelled on a two year £40 million loan which you'd think is very very dependent on Matchday income.
Oldham - The curious case of Abdallah Lemsagam and a club that's bled money for years.
Southend - Highly paid squad gutted down to young players that are lambs to the slaughter each week. Numerous winding up petitions over the past decade.
Macclesfield - Rogue owner and no cash coming into the club means how long can this go on for them.

Then you look at Coventry (no home ground), Sunderland (still making huge losses and the owners don't have the deepest of pockets), Exeter (Very well run in normal circumstances, but with no benefactor or significant investment how will they cope should the crisis continue for a very long time?) and Bristol Rovers (saddled with nearly £25 million of debt) and you're immediately thinking others who were already on the borderline have now become entrenched into massive shitstorm. As I've said before, had the fans not raised the money and the consortium of new owners not been appointed to the board a month before this all happened, we could well have faced irreversible ruin.

As for the Championship and National League, I think they'll have it a lot worse off than we all have it. But for very different reasons...

 

[Indian Dan]

All those players signed for huge salaries on the promise of never ending TV money. I’d add Reading to your list. Can’t think Sunderland would fall victim, though.

Mind you, I’ve got absolutely no idea about us. We’ve often wondered where Power’s money comes from. If he’s just making a living out of the club then we’re likely to be fucked - like a lot of others in a similar position. Those owners whose core business funds their hobby football club will pull the plug if it helps save their main income.

 

[Greenacres]

It might be easier to start listing clubs who have a guaranteed income, or a really rich benefactor with long arms and shallow pockets, than those who might disappear if the current situation continues long into or beyond the summer.

 

[Indian Dan]

I really know fuck all about how my own club’s finances let alone any others. Can’t imagine any club down here has any guaranteed income and there’s only so long any owner will finance a club racking up debt big time.

 

[Indian Dan]

End game?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

End game?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/foot...&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

MacAnthony contradicts this article with his tweets saying there's an overwhelming desire to complete the season amongst owners. Now I know he's got a lot to gain from finishing the season, but I'd believe him over that gutter rag.

People like Andy Holt constantly bleating about ending the season. I'd have more sympathy for Holt if his club weren't so classless and deplorable pulling out all the stops they could to try and abandon an FA Cup tie against us this season just because they were losing so he could A. save their bacon and B. more than likely charge the fans again to watch the rematch. If it was two years ago when they were top, no way would he be as vocal.

I genuinely do believe there are owners of clubs whose seasons are technically dead that do want to finish this season. And if there's a potentially realistic opportunity to finish this season, which there is (though I doubt it'll go to plan), then we must do our best to take it.

 

[Super_horns]

Typically in football people look after their own self interests.

 

[TrinidadsNumberOne]

Typically in football people look after their own self interests.

But failure is never rewarded in any league season (unless a club goes kaput), so why should it be this season? Why should teams who've worked hard for over 80% of a season have it all go to waste and lose out on a chance the increased revenue a promotion would bring and a greater chance to retain your best players? I'd be arguing this if we were 12th or 24th.

Season must be completed as and whenever possible because integrity is what the game is all about. I know we'd benefit from any proposal to end the season that had promotion scenarios within it, and I do think if we have to do it then we must pursue promotion/no relegation as a last resort, but I'd rather continue the season. There's a great promotion and playoff race occurring in this division and everyone deserves their chance to finish it.