Bury v Port Vale

[T.A]

Obviously fortunate with the first goal but at this level you have to capitalise on any mistake, after that we looked dangerous in every attack we did and were deservedly 3-0 at HT. Poor defending for their goal and disappointing after looking solid at the back for the majority of the game. I always said I thought we'd be alright if we replaced Leon and James Vaughan played very well and already has 3 goals in 2 starts.

Long way to go but if we play like we did today more often than not then we'll finish in a comfortable position in the league. I just hope DF stays with 4-4-2 after we scored 11 goals in a week.

 

[MJA]

One little worry I do have after today is this is the second time (Carlisle) he has questioned the players attitudes towards a game

"It is a bad day for us. A bad game. In the first half we were very bad, but it is my fault, never the players.

"We will keep working. We need to improve some things. These conditions are not good for our football, but we need to change. Sometimes you play on bad pitches and we need to play better.

"I told the players they need to work hard and to have attitude. But it is never the players' fault, it is my fault.

"It is my fault because the attitude in the first half was not correct. We need a good attitude and the first 45 minutes was very bad. I need to speak with the players but outside I never say the players are at fault, it is my fault.

"At half time I said to the players do we change the attitude or do we finish the game maybe seven or eight nil?

"We changed the attitude but after the first 45 minutes it was difficult to change.

"The attitude was better (in the second half), the performance is no good. It is not my football, the attitude was a little bit better but the football was very bad."


Read more at http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/bury...682339-detail/story.html?#GJppRjBw4sUqTCDk.99

Any players not showing the correct attitude should be fined and dropped - simple as that really

 

[valefan16]

Any players not showing the correct attitude should be fined and dropped - simple as that really

Foley got slaughtered at half time on the radio... unusual for him to be so poor considering the season he has had.

 

[MJA]

I just think that we struggled to adapt to the Bury climate considering what our lads have become used to in Burslem

 

[JoeJoeJoeJoe]

I'd worry more about your own team, you cock-knocker.

 

[MJA]

We all know you're not fishing allthejoes, you are just trying to get involved with other match threads because you can't face discussing your own team

 

[Fuzzyvalefan]

Dreadful conditions- one team dealt with it and battled, one didnt. Would have been a different game on a decent pitch as our football this season has been all about short, quick passing and building from the back. Was never going to happen on that pitch and it was naivety in the extreme from the manager to attempt it. We were better in the second half when we went a bit more direct and were kicking towards the 'shallow end' but hopefully its a wake-up call to Bruno that while its all well and good playing nice passing football as we have done so far but sometimes you have to change your approach to match the circumstances. Pitches aren't going to get better as the season progresses.

 

[MJA]

Dreadful conditions- one team dealt with it and battled, one didnt. Would have been a different game on a decent pitch as our football this season has been all about short, quick passing and building from the back. Was never going to happen on that pitch and it was naivety in the extreme from the manager to attempt it. We were better in the second half when we went a bit more direct and were kicking towards the 'shallow end' but hopefully its a wake-up call to Bruno that while its all well and good playing nice passing football as we have done so far but sometimes you have to change your approach to match the circumstances. Pitches aren't going to get better as the season progresses.

That's the concern now isn't it? We have clearly looked like a good passing outfit so far whilst pitches have been dry and firm but let's face it for most of the season L1 pitches are not like this, so will our players and management be able to adapt to the harsher conditions of L1?

 

[valefan16]

That's the concern now isn't it? We have clearly looked like a good passing outfit so far whilst pitches have been dry and firm but let's face it for most of the season L1 pitches are not like this, so will our players and management be able to adapt to the harsher conditions of L1?

To be fair we won't play on a worse pitch than that again this season! Looked like a huge sponge on the highlights

 

[MJA]

To be fair we won't play on a worse pitch than that again this season! Looked like a huge sponge on the highlights

But my point is that L1 pitches are not designed for slick passing football, they are designed to have the ball launched from defence to the big target man

 

[1977Valiant]

Well just got back from Gigg Lane and I have to say well done to Bury. Credit where credit is due they were the better team and adapted to the horrendous conditions far better than we did.

The problem we had was that with both Grant and Tavares missing through injury we were on the back foot from the start as it left us with a very young inexperienced midfield. De Fraitas came into the team and then also got injured early on in the game leaving us with only Ameros and Foley.

Bruno brought Patterson on for De Fraitas and doing so was then forced to change the formation and tactics which meant that we didn't then have much of a midfield, which were unable support both the defence and forwards (who incidentally found it difficult to hold the ball up in the last 3rd), inevitably we would then lose possession and our defence was under pressure again.

Although Grant isn't the be all and end all of the team, I feel that if we had we him in the team today then the 2nd and 3rd goals may not have happened as these are the areas where Granty usually is picking up, marking players and getting blocks in so the defence keeps it shape making us we harder to break down and the match and result would have been a lot closer affair.

Both the first and the last Bury goal's were one of those things that happens when your luck is completely against you and there wasn't much we could do about them. If your being critical you could have said that Street and Alnwick were both equally at fault for the first goal but any other day it would have been dealt with.

Although the conditions were horrendous, both teams had to play on the same pitch, so where some people are blaming the pitch saying it should have been called off etc.. is just ridiculous, at the end of the day we were unfortunate to have the majority of our midfield missing before the game and we tried to play football on the deck of a pitch where the conditions did not allow, basically we didn't adapt to the conditions and Bury did.

At the end of the day I think we need to learn from this as in a few months down the line the conditions will be like this more often than not, so basically put today down to a bad day at the office and look forward to next week at Peterborough where according to Bruno we will have both Grant and Tavares back, so I'm sure next week will be a different kettle of fish result wise! Fingers crossed!

 

[MJA]

Good post 1977Valiant, quite interesting that a key player we missed, Tavares, was one of those 'foreign players who would send us down' according to most on here at the start of the season

 

[1977Valiant]

Good post 1977Valiant, quite interesting that a key player we missed, Tavares, was one of those 'foreign players who would send us down' according to most on here at the start of the season

In my opinion I don't think that we have missed O'Conner as Tavares has more than taken his place.

But when you take 2 influential players like Grant and Tavares from the spine of your team it will have a massive impact and this can be said of any team in any division.

Some people were slating Foley who were sitting around me today, saying he looked out of his depth, but when we usually have 3 experienced midfielders in the middle of the park in Grant, Tavares and Foley, then you have 2 of those missing, it meant that Foley was then on a hiding to nothing being the only experienced player, and although he tried you couldn't expect him to be solely responsible for the defensive side, ball winning and creativity in midfield alone.

Personally when De Fraitas got injured I would have brought on Mac-Intosh and put him at left back and pushed Knops into the Grant role in front of the defence, leaving either Ameros or Foley to push forward a little more and gone with 4-5-1. This way we could have kept it tight made sure we were difficult to break down, then try to catch Bury on the break and see it we could have at least come away with a point.

 

[KeithH]

Can I just point out that Bury were missing Tutte, Ethue, Brown, Natcam, Jones and Danns who are all 1st team player as well.
Just saying like.

 

[Vale on Trent]

That was the definition of men vs boys. They won every header, tackle and second ball.

Streete and Smith got bullied as did Foley and Amoros. I hope I never have to see them two in a midfield two or Cicilia and Paterson upfront together again.

Leon Barnett had a field day.

It's alright passing it about nicely and winning games at home but away from home something needs to change. When Grant is out who else is going to battle and put a challenge in?

 

[T.A]

Can I just point out that Bury were missing Tutte, Ethue, Brown, Natcam, Jones and Danns who are all 1st team player as well.
Just saying like.

Chris Brown is staying in the cupboard until the next sunny day.

 

[KeithH]

Chris Brown is staying in the cupboard until the next sunny day.

With you know who!!

 

[leedsvaliant]

A really disappointing day and result as I fancied us before the game and still fancy that we'll do better than Bury this season.

We completely misread the conditions and simply did not adapt. Perhaps the game should have been abandoned but as many have said, it was the same for both sides. A really poor decision to play across your own area lead to the 1st goal and heads immediately dropped. The second was a good strike but he had so much time to line up the shot. The 3rd was again poor and the 4th was a typical goal when nothing has gone right for you.

Without Grant and Tavares in there we had a very lightweight midfield and were out-muscled and outfought, particularly in the first half. Bury were clearly being more direct, and with Pope and Vaughan upfront it was the perfect target men. The conditions asked for a target man to hold up but we started all wrong. Bury were also shooting whenever the opportunity arose, which is what you should do in those conditions. The law of averages tells you that in those conditions if you have 20+ shots, your likely to cause problems with a few of them. It wasn't actually a 4-1 game but we were well beaten even though we made more of a fist of it second half.

What is concerning is that our back-up players struggled and it seems like we didn't have any forethought about how to cope with the conditions prior to the game. We look as good as any in the league at home when we can dictate the play but we look very much like last season away from home. Bruno needs to instill a bit more battle into his teams when the going gets tough or the conditions are not conducive to the style of play he wishes to adopt -sometimes in this league you've just got to battle and win second balls (win ugly).

It's all a learning curve and I said at the start of the season that we'll be a bit up and down for a while until all the new players settle. I have a feeling we'll have one or two more games like this before Christmas. We need to set about making it right next week with a tough fixture away at Peterborough, who look a better team than last season. Hopefully Grant and Tavares are back and we can build on the promising start to the season.

 

[King Kev]

It could have easily been 4 or 5-0 at half time and we fluffed several chances before our fourth and after it. 4-1 was a true reflection on the game IMO.
The pitch was fine IMO, aside from the first goal there were not really any other incidents of the ball getting bogged down or stuck. That early goal did change the game but I thought we were fantastic after that, mixing it up with nice moves and direct football (known as the King Kev brand in Leeds).

However, fair play to Vale, battled well in the second half and looked very dangerous for 10/15 minutes at 3-1, that big striker you brought on was a real menace. It is all about bouncing back for you, for Bury am not getting overly excited, will be typical of us to drop points next Saturday after this.

 

[valefan16]

The big striker as in Cicilia (please score me a goal....) menace isn't the word i would use!

 

[leedsvaliant]

It could have easily been 4 or 5-0 at half time and we fluffed several chances before our fourth and after it. 4-1 was a true reflection on the game IMO.
The pitch was fine IMO, aside from the first goal there were not really any other incidents of the ball getting bogged down or stuck. That early goal did change the game but I thought we were fantastic after that, mixing it up with nice moves and direct football (known as the King Kev brand in Leeds).

However, fair play to Vale, battled well in the second half and looked very dangerous for 10/15 minutes at 3-1, that big striker you brought on was a real menace. It is all about bouncing back for you, for Bury am not getting overly excited, will be typical of us to drop points next Saturday after this.

It's amazing what a different perspective offers. We think Cicilia (the big striker) is way below the standard required for this league.

 

[leedsvaliant]

And just as an aside, referees are told that if the ball holds up in surface water then it is dangerous and the game should be stopped. I disagree that there were no real other incidents, I remember a few times where the ball held up between two players. I wouldn't have wanted it abandoned if the shoe was on the other foot, but if you go by the letter of the law....

On this occasion I think even on a dry day, we weren't at the races and Bury were. Seemed to be bang up for it from the start ( I suspect if they hadn't have been 3-0 down at half time last week it might have been different). Caught you on a good day when strikes flew in rather than wide, back-passes were intercepted and deflected shots went in - you made your own luck though by having plenty of efforts on goal, I suppose some are bound to fly in.

Anyway, we move on. Just one of those days I hope and once we get our first choice midfield back in, we can beat anybody really.

 

[leedsvaliant]

This weekend also confirmed our usual trick of:

1) Losing when expectations are raised
2) Ending another teams indifferent run of form
3) Losing in front of a good following

It's good to see we are maintaining standards.

 

[valefan16]

This weekend also confirmed our usual trick of:

1) Losing when expectations are raised
2) Ending another teams indifferent run of form
3) Losing in front of a good following

It's good to see we are maintaining standards.

We look so good at home but as with last season just are not cracking the away issue. Average away form last season would of seen us in the top six come May and its crucial we sort it fast to have any chance of challenging this.